Realism Overhaul Discussion Thread

[Requia]

7 minutes ago, Phineas Freak said:

But in  your case, you are trying to compare the original J-2 (used on the S-II, S-IV and S-IVB stages) with the J-2X (proposed for the Ares I insertion stage and the Ares V EDS). The two engines have nothing in common except for the name.

 

Nope, that's what the CryoEngine J-2 is (at base, the J2X gets unlocked later) the SXT J-2 has a base of 1.6 something tonnes, and 800-something kN vacuum thrust.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Requia

[MissMolly]

@Phineas Freak no iv not removed anything as I'm not sure what to remove or if it will brake something, iv just started playing with RSS and RO so I'm very new to the game now.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2016 by MissMolly

[Phineas Freak]

@Requia the SXT J-2 inert mass and vacuum thrust are correct (since we simulate the different MR ratios as changes in thrust). But looking at the RO configs for the CryoEngines i get the following:

Vulcain Series
RL10-B-2
LE-7 Series
J-2X
RS-68 Series

With the following as a config for the J-2X:

@PART[cryoengine-25-2]:FOR[RealismOverhaul]
{
	%RSSROConfig = True
	@MODEL,0
	{
		@scale = 1.6,1.6,1.6
	}
	%rescaleFactor = 1.0
	@node_stack_top = 0.0, 1.777, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
	@node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -2.0626, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 2
	%title = J-2X
	%manufacturer = Aerojet Rocketdyne
	%description = 2000s medium TWR, vacuum engine. The J-2X was intended to be used on the upper stages of Ares I and Ares V. Development continued after the cancellation of Ares, and early designs of SLS incorporated the engine, but selection of the RL10-powered Exploration Upper Stage resulted in the project being mothballed. min stage diameter 4.0m
	%mass = 2.47
	%maxTemp = 1970
	%crashTolerance = 12
	%breakingForce = 250
	%breakingTorque = 250
	@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
	{
		%maxThrust = 1308
		%minThrust = 1072
		%heatProduction = 100
		@atmosphereCurve
		{
			@key,0 = 0 448
			@key,1 = 1 200
		}
		@PROPELLANT[LqdHydrogen]
		{
			%ratio = 0.745
		}
		@PROPELLANT[Oxidizer]
		{
			%name = LqdOxygen
			%ratio = 0.255
		}
		ullage = True
		ignitions = 8
		IGNITOR_RESOURCE
		{
			name = ElectricCharge
			amount = 0.500
		}
	}
	@MODULE[ModuleGimbal]
	{
		%gimbalRange = 5
		%useGimbalResponseSpeed = true
		%gimbalResponseSpeed = 16
	}
	!MODULE[ModuleAlternator]
	{
	}
	!RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]
	{
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleEngineConfigs
		origMass = 2.47
		configuration = J-2X
		modded = false
		CONFIG
		{
			name = J-2X
			maxThrust = 1308
			minThrust = 1072
			PROPELLANT
			{
				name = LqdHydrogen
				ratio = 0.745
				DrawGauge = True
			}
			PROPELLANT
			{
				name = LqdOxygen
				ratio = 0.255
			}
			atmosphereCurve
			{
				key = 0 448
				key = 1 200
			}
		}
	}
}

So i cannot understand how you get the original J-2 out of the CryoEngines. The only engine configuration that exists is for the J-2X. Link.

@MissMolly take a look at the OP for the list of the required mods and from there, start removing mods. What happens if you remove temporary the offending FASA pack?

[komodo]

EDIT: Gah, wrong thread. We can't delete out posts?

Edited January 4, 2016 by komodo

[komodo]

Actually, I want to post on this thread after all. I made a thing. It's ready for some additional testing, if anyone is mad enough to try.

@NathanKell, I wrote a companion script to ROMini.cfg... I'll include it after the cut. The tl;dr is thus: We use/reenable the formally commented scaling code in ROMini, which breaks attachment nodes, but works better in other respects.

Then we fix the attachment nodes by scanning the KSP directory and extracting every possible attach node name in a given install, and using those extracted names to generate a MM config that rescales the nodes to match the rest of the scaling.

Spoiler

#!/bin/bash

###By Komodo (KSP Forums Handle)
### License pending... Almost certainly whatever RO is licenced under. (It's 6 am, sue me ><) ARR for now.

#######
#USAGE#  ./ROMiniNodeScalar.sh GameData/ GameData/zROMini/(whatever).cfg
#######

#I will try to document this as we go. I think I have a handle on it at last.
#If possible, I will try to get some usage/help statements for the terminal, but this is not a high priority.

#this is the second command argument: Where do you want yourfilenamehere to go. (give it a .cfg extension!)
outfile=$2

#This block defines the rescale factor for later calculations.
read -r -d '' header <<-_EOF_
RESCALEFACTOR
{
	rescaleFactor = 1.6
}
_EOF_
	echo "$header">$outfile #outfile from above...

#This block does the magic: The GameData is scanned at the bottom of the block (Don't ask...)
#The while read takes the incoming datastream and dishes it out one at a time in a variable called 'node'
#the middle of the block is the template we drop the node variable into.
while read -r node
	do
		read -r -d '' mmconfig <<-EOF
	@PART[*]:HAS[@MODEL,#$node[*]]:FOR[zROMini]:NEEDS[!RealismOverhaul]
	{
        //         0    1    2    3     4    5    6
        //$node = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 1
	//We only need to adjust the first three values...
        nxa = #\$$node[0]\$
        nya = #\$$node[1]\$
        nza = #\$$node[2]\$
        @nxa *= #\$@RESCALEFACTOR/rescaleFactor\$
        @nya *= #\$@RESCALEFACTOR/rescaleFactor\$
        @nza *= #\$@RESCALEFACTOR/rescaleFactor\$
	//And then reassemble the node definition.
        @$node = #\$nxa\$,\$nya\$,\$nza\$,\$$node[3]\$,\$$node[4]\$,\$$node[5]\$,\$$node[6]$
	//This one is curious. The last key defines the size of the green node, and is optional.
	//However, the code as written here barfs if the last key is optioned out. A trailing comma is left behind, and partloader says "**** that!"
	//I am attemting to strip out the trailing comma and replace it with a whitespace. (That didn't work so well, so maybe we can set it to "1"
        @$node[5] ^= :,$:,1:
	//clean up our mess...
        !n*a = DEL
	}
	EOF
		# this is where the filled template gets written to the outfile. >> vs > above
		# causes it to append to the bottom of the file, vs writing over the contents.
		# this should ensure a clean file on each run.
	        echo "$mmconfig">>$outfile
      	done < <(find $1 -type f -name '*.cfg' -print0| xargs -0 awk '/^node*/ {print $1}'| sort -u)
		#$1 as defined here is the location of the GameData folder. I suspect the KSP root would work as well.
		# find command scans for files with a .cfg extension, and passes that to awk via xargs.
		#(if this seems like arcane sorcery... well, I agree.) 
		#Awk scans the list of files for lines beginning with node* and returns the names only.
		#Finally, sort is employed to only output unique entries for the template.
		#This is the power of *nix, being able to link small commands to give flexible and powerful ones. They just can be... frustrating! :D

 

This is written in bash at the moment, and primarily intended for linux_.86_64.  It wouldn't easily run under windows, but I can try to think something up that might. (Mac users, though, plus to you, it'll work perfectly! ... or, it'd better... hah.)

I am going to try to clean it up (and my ROMini as well, it's kinda a mess at the moment!) before sending off a PR. It's literally just been done for 20 minutes, and i've got to go pass out, so testing will have to wait. I was just elated that KSP loaded at last! License as mentioned is reserved at the moment... i'll fix that once my eyes uncross. Do feel free to go nuts testing it, though!

Big shoutouts to @sarbian, @Sigma88, @Kerbas_ad_astra and @nathankell (It doens't want to reblue again, hmm) for, in order, MM, their respective mods which were extremely useful in poking and prodding trying to get this to work, and for making the darn thing in the first place and keeping it going.

Let me know what you think!

[MissMolly]

9 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

 

@MissMolly take a look at the OP for the list of the required mods and from there, start removing mods. What happens if you remove temporary the offending FASA pack?

@Phineas Freak i did at first removed @PART[FASASaturnUllage]:FOR[RP-0] Config(@PART[FASASaturnUllage]:FOR[RealPlume]) RealismOverhaul/RealPlume_Configs/ but Ksp crashed so i removed the whole FASA pack, and still getting I'm still getting Config(@PART[FASASaturnUllage]:FOR[RP-0]) RP-0/Tree/@PART[FASASaturnUllage]:FOR[RP-0] MechJeb module MechJebModuleLandingGuidance threw an exception in OnStart: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object as well as RemoteTech: SatelliteManager: Unregister(ModuleSPU(null 

thinking i should  pull MJ and RT out as well

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3owbhblgwe5zny6/Player4.log?dl=0

Edited January 4, 2016 by MissMolly

[Phineas Freak]

Might sound a bit dumb but what version of KSP do you have? There was a "silent" patch that bumped the minor version to 1028 and some things will not work if the version is not compatible.

[NathanKell]

@komodo Whoa, I didn't know MM supported wildcards on values now!
As for attach nodes, only the first three values should be scaled, the others should be left alone. Does your code do that, or does it apply the scaling factor to all subvalues? At any rate, you'd best ask in the MM thread, where Sarbian might have advice...I got nuthin.

@MissMolly The craft in the RP-0 orbit tutorial can indeed make orbit (the final craft, not the upper-stages-only test craft built halfway through the tutorial). I fly my ascents using MechJeb's ascent guidance, that keeps me aligned well during the powered phases. You need ~9300m/s to reach orbit, 6400 is far too little. And yes, needing 9300 means you need 9300 across all stages, so you can just sum up.

@komodo v2.0: Woo, that's very cool indeed! Neatly gets around MM issues.

 

[MissMolly]

On January 4, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Phineas Freak said:

Might sound a bit dumb but what version of KSP do you have? There was a "silent" patch that bumped the minor version to 1028 and some things will not work if the version is not compatible.

i have .1028

so i did a new install game mods from Ckan and I'm still getting this, not sure what I'm going to miss anything. if its just FX from the RealPlume then i can live with out it. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yk1pf4nayfsbcu6/Player5.log?dl=0

Config(@PART[FASASaturnUllage]:FOR[RealPlume]) RealismOverhaul/RealPlume_Configs/FASA/FASASaturnUllage/@PART[FASASaturnUllage]:FOR[RealPlume]

 

Edited January 6, 2016 by MissMolly

[NathanKell]

@MissMolly your log clearly shows you are running out of RAM (KSP on Mac is limited to like ~2,8GB). You need to limit the number of part addons you're using, and use the 2048 textures for RSS (you might be able to get away with the 4096s, I don't know). Also look into rbray89's Dynamic Texture Loader.

 

EDIT: To be clear, it's 100% not related to that part, or that line of MM code.

[MissMolly]

11 minutes ago, NathanKell said:

@MissMolly your log clearly shows you are running out of RAM (KSP on Mac is limited to like ~2,8GB). You need to limit the number of part addons you're using, and use the 2048 textures for RSS (you might be able to get away with the 4096s, I don't know). Also look into rbray89's Dynamic Texture Loader.

ok thanks for all the help. All this ram and no use for it lol, Do you have any write up on the ∆v needed to get in to a low orbit of the planets? all so iv not found anything so far to help me build  more authentic rockets i.e Saturn V, Ares and so on. As playing KSP stock i just slapped stuff together and let it rip, bow up it to a few hundred pcs and do it all again. And with RSS and RO I'm wanting to have some more authentic crafts, of course iv look at photos on line but they lack a few things. 

Thanks again Molly

[NathanKell]

You're most welcome!

Hopefully 1.1 will let KSP use all that RAM. We'll see.

Good places to look for delta V numbers would be wikipedia and this pretty map.

As to LVs, RO itself comes with some stock craft, although if you are memory-limited you will be barred from using those stock craft which depend on part mods. If you want LV data, some good sites to use are Encyclopedia Astronuatica which has probably the largest data set but has a number of inaccuracies, b14643.de, Spaceflight 101's LV library (probably the most in-depth) .... there are plenty more, but that should be enough to get you started.

[Phineas Freak]

@MissMolly well, it was a memory problem after all.

As an addition to the launch vehicle parameter sources, i would also suggest searching through the NASA Technical Report Server. They have loads of excellent information but it is a bit difficult to find the best result sometimes.

[Joco223]

My KSP RSS RO install gets stuck at FASA and AIES when loading. I dont really want to remove them because thay are so cool. I have almost all mods installed from suggested mods for RO and im using 64-bit workaround. I suggest im hitting the memory ceiling (But i don't know how that would work because im using 64bit workaround). Any Suggestions? 

BTW Im using windows and the nyan cat that goes at  the bottom of loading screen is going super fast so i think it cant load the parts

Is there a way to make engines from other mods work with RF? Like some MM confing or something? And also because i made some engiens myself in the past, how do you set up the part.cfg to use RF instead of standard LFO?

-EDIT-

I know that im using 64-bit and mod authors don't really want to support it because of its bugines

-EDIT2-

I't still doesn't work but i think i may have found the problem. When it gets stuck at loading a part the debug screen says this:

[Exception]: MissingMethodException: Method not found: 'ModuleEngines.Flameout'.

What may be causing this?

Edited January 6, 2016 by Joco223

[MissMolly]

@nathankell hey i was have a few problems last night in where there was a lot of hanging of the game i could not pin point what mod it was, so i did a new D/L of every thing this morning. i decided to see if there were any incompatibles and CKan is showing KSPAPIExtensions in not compatible with RO, as well there are 3 KSPAPIExtensions.dll files installed. Even if ckan is wrong would multiple files of the same .dll cause a conflict?

[NathanKell]

The DLLs come with individual mods, and each mod that uses it should come with its own dll. The KSPAPIExtensions entry in CKAN itself should never have existed, and the solution was to limit its versioning so it can no longer be selected. Tl;dr that's entirely working as intended.

[MissMolly]

ok thanks then ill ignore it

[MissMolly]

so i re-did all my D/L's Today from Ckan and installed them one by one i put in kosmos last and this happened any idea to help it load. 

load screen https://www.dropbox.com/s/x4gh9z2zqrrqklr/2016-01-06%2015.27.10.jpg?dl=0

installed mods https://www.dropbox.com/s/ecq2od8q4vk3lgn/IMAG0002.jpg?dl=0

[NathanKell]

Even with DTL that looks like way too many mods...

[khyron42]

On 1/6/2016 at 7:27 AM, Joco223 said:

-EDIT2-

I't still doesn't work but i think i may have found the problem. When it gets stuck at loading a part the debug screen says this:

[Exception]: MissingMethodException: Method not found: 'ModuleEngines.Flameout'.

What may be causing this?

Joco223 - I just ran into the same problem and asked about it on the IRC channel - if you haven't had an answer yet, you should check your ksp.log file first line for version number.  If it's not 1.0.5.1028, go re-download KSP from Squad's website;  they did a stealth patch and I was working from an older version, which was causing me to get the "missingmethodexception" issue on certain engines.

Of course, then you'll have to do fresh 64-bit workarounds on that newer version.

[MissMolly]

So i got up and running finally but  with one wee problem my tech tree is stock so i can't get any of the RO stuff. so i must be missing something.

Mod list

HyperEdit

B9_Aerospace
CommunityResourcePack
CrossFeedEnabler
DynamicTextureLoader
EngineGroupController
F1 Rocket Engine
FASA
KerbalConstructionTime
KerbalEngineer
KerbalJointReinforcement
Kopernicus
KSCSwitcher
MechJeb2
ModularFlightIntegrator
ModuleManager xx16
ProceduralFairings
ProceduralParts
RCSBuildAid
RealChute
RealFuels
RealHeat
RealismOverhaul
RealPlume
RealSolarSystem
RN_US_Probes
RSS-Textures
SmokeScreen
SolverEngines

 

And with all of these I'm only hitting 2.2g of ram ya much better then the 3.2 earlier this week

[NathanKell]

Yay!

 

RO doesn't support career out of the box. You need Realistic Progression Zero.

You also should have Ven's Stock Revamp, as even regular RO highly, highly recommends it (things will look wonky without it).

[MissMolly]

so i dropped in the two you suggested, but all the part now say non Ro and none of yours are coming up as well there a excrements ton of contracts for non RO-P at the start and none of the ones that should be there i.e breached the Karman line, any ideas

[Phineas Freak]

@MissMollynon - RO for even the stock parts? Something is really wrong here. Did you check the installation paths?

Also, CrossfeedEnabler is deprecated and it's functionality is now included in stock KSP, I would suggest removing it.

[tgillespie]

Hi guys,

Has anyone managed a successful re-entry with the Vostok capsule from the Tantares pack? No matter how shallow my descent is, I always seem to burn up at around 70km.

Thanks