Devnote Tuesdays: The Empty Farm Edition

[Justin Kerbice]

All those buildings are now going through a thorough revision and the ones showcased in all likelihood will therefore not be ready for 0.90. Fear not, as we have a whole second tier of visual buildings (think industrial park turned space center) that need only minor adjustments and will be there to showcase the upgradable buildings as a feature.

mmm why is there any rush to release 0.90 ? What the matter of delaying by 2/3 weeks, squashing more bugs and design issue (in 0.25 for example large reaction wheel/SAS has nodes of size 1, which makes no sense and weaken connection, and there are a few issue like this one, too big or too small nodes).

Feature-hungry-zombies will not die by starvation anyway !

[Bilfr3d]

1, 2, 3

I smell some graphical improvements another great devnote... devs Always loving your work guys, keep it up

[Padishar]

Great dev notes, they really are a pleasure to read now even when not all the content is pleasing. Good job...

One concern: I have grown incredibly accustomed to the rotational flexibility that Editor Extensions (90 degree snaps!) and Part Angle Display (0.1 degree rotation!) have offered. I really, really hope (and really, really beg) that the new system will allow for such moddability.

Actually, it is 0.01 degrees though you very rarely need to go that fine...

Yes, I agree, the new editor functionality needs to be at least as moddable as the current editor. However, one thing that could be significantly improved would be to make all the hardwired constants for rotation key increments, angle snap increments, translation key increments, translation snap increments etc. into public members of the EditorLogic class so that mods can easily adjust them.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Padishar

[Red Iron Crown]

mmm why is there any rush to release 0.90 ? What the matter of delaying by 2/3 weeks, squashing more bugs and design issue (in 0.25 for example large reaction wheel/SAS has nodes of size 1, which makes no sense and weaken connection, and there are a few issue like this one, too big or too small nodes).

Feature-hungry-zombies will not die by starvation anyway !

I'd imagine they want the new update out for the Christmas season.

[John FX]

I`m glad the feedback has been taken on board, that is always a good sign.

While the barn is being looked at, can I ask for it to please not look too good?

Model it well and do good textures of course but please make it look like a repurposed building, not one built purely for the task.

I don`t want to imagine the very first rockets I build coming out of a shiny government building or a corporate headquarters, they should be built in a farm or a junkyard or a shed or a disused factory and so forth.

I`d much rather the first shiny bespoke buildings come much later in the upgrade path, round about the time we are thinking of putting a kerbal on Mun.

I see the progression similar to ours (but kerbalised)

This for example is the Caltech Jet Propulsion Laboratory in the 1930s, note the wooden buildings and lack of a `space centre` feel.

This is 1930`s rocketry from the Goddard Space Centre, note the battered tin shack holding the launch controls.

This is an early jet plane being launched at Caltech JPL. The person has run to the runway to try to measure the takeoff point.

And so on.

Note the shacks, wood, corrugated iron and lack of a runway. The general run down, lack of cash, build it out of whatever is lying around look.

This is JPL in 1943

This is an aerial view of Lewis Flight Propulsion Laboratory as it appeared in 1955.

It would be a shame to not have the tiny wooden/tin shacks to launch our first rockets from. Like the one with no windows so that a launch failure means you have to run for your life or find a hole made by a previous launch.

EDIT : Shacks like in this image from 1940

Edited November 12, 2014 by John FX

[Broax]

I`m glad the feedback has been taken on board, that is always a good sign.

While the barn is being looked at, can I ask for it to please not look too good?

Model it well and do good textures of course but please make it look like a repurposed building, not one built purely for the task.

I don`t want to imagine the very first rockets I build coming out of a shiny government building or a corporate headquarters, they should be built in a farm or a junkyard or a shed or a disused factory and so forth.

I`d much rather the first shiny bespoke buildings come much later in the upgrade path, round about the time we are thinking of putting a kerbal on Mun.

I see the progression similar to ours (but kerbalised)

This for example is the Caltech Jet Propulsion Laboratory in the 1930s, note the wooden buildings and lack of a `space centre` feel.

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/uploads/tx_naksciimages/GeorgePendle1_figure_1.jpg

This is 1930`s rocketry from the Goddard Space Centre, note the battered tin shack holding the launch controls.

http://waynehale.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/goddard-launch1.jpg

This is an early jet plane being launched at Caltech JPL. The person has run to the runway to try to measure the takeoff point.

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/uploads/tx_naksciimages/GeorgePendle1_Figure_3a.jpg

And so on.

Note the shacks, wood, corrugated iron and lack of a runway. The general run down, lack of cash, build it out of whatever is lying around look.

This is JPL in 1943

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4306/p58.jpg

This is an aerial view of Lewis Flight Propulsion Laboratory as it appeared in 1955.

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4103/p511.jpg

It would be a shame to not have the tiny wooden/tin shacks to launch our first rockets from. Like the one with no windows so that a launch failure means you have to run for your life or find a hole made by a previous launch.

EDIT : Like this image from 1940

http://www.youngsphotogallery.com/Aden%201940%20Table%20Mtna.jpg

This!! So much this!!

This isbone heck of a comment that sums up everything I feel in the most constructive way possible!!

[Majorjim!]

Yay the highlighted colour is BADA55!

I'm very happy to hear you guys are holding back the Tier 1 buildings. I agree it was too early to show these. And I know a lot of people, me included, voiced their opinion on this. And perhaps we where a little harsh..

At least it shows people care though right? If you don't care either way you don't comment. Its just some are worse at holding back the rage.

[John FX]

Yay the highlighted colour is BADA55!

I'm very happy to hear you guys are holding back the Tier 1 buildings. I agree it was too early to show these. And I know a lot of people, me included, voiced their opinion on this. And perhaps we were a little harsh..

At least it shows people care though right? If you don't care either way you don't comment. Its just some are worse at holding back the rage.

I also love the new highlight colour. It really... highlights

While I agree the tier 1 models could do with more work on textures and modelling I did like the styling. They looked run down and like they were built a long time ago for another purpose. The VAB could be smaller and more like a shack than a barn though IMHO.

[Capt Snuggler]

This is good news indeed. happy to hear tier 1 will be getting another going over before release. differences in visual style can be jarring.

Despite the "heated" response from the community regarding the last Dev sneak peek, I hope this wont stop SQUAD from showing us more works in progress. I (and others) have really appreciated the reveal pictures.

Any chance we can get a sneak peak of the MK3 parts? just an ity bitty tiny glimps of them PLEASE?!?!?!!

[The Czosnex]

I`m glad the feedback has been taken on board, that is always a good sign.

While the barn is being looked at, can I ask for it to please not look too good?

Model it well and do good textures of course but please make it look like a repurposed building, not one built purely for the task.

I don`t want to imagine the very first rockets I build coming out of a shiny government building or a corporate headquarters, they should be built in a farm or a junkyard or a shed or a disused factory and so forth.

I`d much rather the first shiny bespoke buildings come much later in the upgrade path, round about the time we are thinking of putting a kerbal on Mun.

I see the progression similar to ours (but kerbalised)

This for example is the Caltech Jet Propulsion Laboratory in the 1930s, note the wooden buildings and lack of a `space centre` feel.

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/uploads/tx_naksciimages/GeorgePendle1_figure_1.jpg

This is 1930`s rocketry from the Goddard Space Centre, note the battered tin shack holding the launch controls.

http://waynehale.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/goddard-launch1.jpg

This is an early jet plane being launched at Caltech JPL. The person has run to the runway to try to measure the takeoff point.

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/uploads/tx_naksciimages/GeorgePendle1_Figure_3a.jpg

And so on.

Note the shacks, wood, corrugated iron and lack of a runway. The general run down, lack of cash, build it out of whatever is lying around look.

This is JPL in 1943

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4306/p58.jpg

This is an aerial view of Lewis Flight Propulsion Laboratory as it appeared in 1955.

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4103/p511.jpg

It would be a shame to not have the tiny wooden/tin shacks to launch our first rockets from. Like the one with no windows so that a launch failure means you have to run for your life or find a hole made by a previous launch.

EDIT : Shacks like in this image from 1940

http://www.youngsphotogallery.com/Aden%201940%20Table%20Mtna.jpg

JPL in 1943 looks fine by me, but remember that we start with Mercury-like tech level, launching a manned pod first, unlike Goddard with his scientific rockets that didin't go to orbit. (I'd like a 1943 JPL space centre for tier 1 or 2 factility :<)

If we started with scientific atmospheric unmanned rockets in KSP, I'd be fine with a simple barn. But that's 30 years apart in tech level.

An old airbase with rusty hangars for assembling spacecraft, control tower for a mission control, and some cleared patch of dirt for the launch site would make more sense and still be "lulsokerbal" enough for me.

[KerrMü]

Any chance we can get a sneak peak of the MK3 parts? just an ity bitty tiny glimps of them PLEASE?!?!?!!

So that a minority can complain endlessly about them, and they get delayed untill the next update? Pls don't! Since this weekend I'm totally fine if Squad never show us WIPs again.

[John FX]

JPL in 1943 looks fine by me, but remember that we start with Mercury-like tech level, launching a manned pod first, unlike Goddard with his scientific rockets that didin't go to orbit. (I'd like a 1943 JPL space centre for tier 1 or 2 factility :<)

If we started with scientific atmospheric unmanned rockets in KSP, I'd be fine with a simple barn. But that's 30 years apart in tech level.

An old airbase with rusty hangars for assembling spacecraft, control tower for a mission control, and some cleared patch of dirt for the launch site would make more sense and still be "lulsokerbal" enough for me.

Myself I would suggest that it would be good to be able to select your starting tier when you start your game. Then if you prefer to start at `mercury level` in the mid 40`s you could. This would mean you would never have to look at a tin shack.

What I would be unhappy about is if that took away the option to start earlier. There are many people with many differing views on how the game should be and the only proper way of dealing with them is to accept as many as possible that do not exclude others.

The fact that we start with a manned pod is being discussed on other threads and I hope is not set in stone. There are many people that would like to start unmanned, with things similar to Goddards suborbital rockets, or even planes. (Planes and unguided tiny rockets make SO much more sense to me)

Like I say, if we could choose starting tier the Goddard era would never impinge on your chosen gamestyle. You would always start with Mercury. Or tier 3, or 4, or even sandbox. You can currently set your starting funds, rep and science so I see this as being something that could happen.

EDIT :

So that a minority can complain endlessly about them, and they get delayed untill the next update? Pls don't! Since this weekend I'm totally fine if Squad never show us WIPs again.

How on Kerbin did you get four green pips in only 113 posts?

Edited November 12, 2014 by John FX

[astropapi1]

So that a minority can complain endlessly about them, and they get delayed untill the next update? Pls don't! Since this weekend I'm totally fine if Squad never show us WIPs again.

Bah, don't be a downer. Although many people gave heated responses about the buildings, it was feedback nonetheless and I'm sure SQUAD appreciates all of it. When you're making something, whatever it is, you need to be able to take feedback and not ..... about people telling you things you don't like.

If someone tells you what you made is ugly, but he gives you examples of something that's better and tells you ways to improve what you made, that doesn't mean he's complaining endlessly and wants to delay your progress, that means he wants you to succeed and use your capabilities to the best. When you're making a game in development, you need to be able to take criticism, whether it's sugar-coated or not.

I'm really glad that SQUAD has been so open with us, and I hope they will continue to show us WIP material so we can give them constructive criticism back.

[John FX]

I`d rather see something I don`t like and have the chance to say so before it is fixed in place than be presented with a final product which I don`t like...

(I`m sure SQUAD would prefer KSP to be something people like too)

Bring on the WIPs, we`ll tear them to pieces and then the pieces can be built into something better...

[Darnok]

I`d rather see something I don`t like and have the chance to say so before it is fixed in place than be presented with a final product which I don`t like...

(I`m sure SQUAD would prefer KSP to be something people like too)

Bring on the WIPs, we`ll tear them to pieces and then the pieces can be built into something better...

+1^10 = totally agree with this one

[KerbMav]

How on Kerbin did you get four green pips in only 113 posts?

367 rep-points

[Red Iron Crown]

+1^10 = totally agree with this one

Lulz, 1^10 = 1.

[FunnyBunny14]

I personally hope that they release the tier 1 KSP as a patch inbetween updates as soon as they have finished everything else.

I really hope they'll make us have to use science points to upgrade the buildings at least from tier 2 to 3, because the new biomes are going to make science way too easy to get. I'm also hoping that they'll add different ways to spend science for the late career.

[Darnok]

Lulz, 1^10 = 1.

ups missed 0 :/

[astropapi1]

How on Kerbin did you get four green pips in only 113 posts?

He's a fantastic builder. Really clever and he uses stock parts in ways you never thought would be possible.

[cantab]

If we started with scientific atmospheric unmanned rockets in KSP, I'd be fine with a simple barn.

Well, we practically do. The atmospheric, at least, is likely to be a typical player's second launch (after the "Oh no the chute deployed it's out of control aaaaaaah KABOOM! first launch"). Sure the Kerbals have a jury-rigged crew pod but that's because they're more reckless than humans.

[ImJake]

I really appreciate the way Squad has been open in their dev notes lately and ow they listen to the community, but I'm wondering if they should stop showing us pictures or be as open. I love getting to see their progress, but the tier one KSC and Kerbal experience system were delayed when they were nearly finished because a vocal minority didn't like them, thus wasting dev man-hours. I guess I should stop complaining because it's better to have a developer that actually listens to their community than one that ignores it entirely. I just that I trust Squad to do whats right for this game and that I liked what they previously had planned.

[Laie]

the tier one KSC and Kerbal experience system were delayed when they were nearly finished because a vocal minority didn't like them, thus wasting dev man-hours.

Well, Squad is by no means bound to listen to anyone. It takes some clamor in order to be heard at all, but I can imagine many cases where being ever-so-vocal wouldn't change Squad's position one bit. If they *do* listen and change their plans, I'm inclined to believe that the vocal minority actually had some kind of point. In which case it doesn't matter if they were a minority.

[Red Iron Crown]

I really appreciate the way Squad has been open in their dev notes lately and ow they listen to the community, but I'm wondering if they should stop showing us pictures or be as open. I love getting to see their progress, but the tier one KSC and Kerbal experience system were delayed when they were nearly finished because a vocal minority didn't like them, thus wasting dev man-hours. I guess I should stop complaining because it's better to have a developer that actually listens to their community than one that ignores it entirely. I just that I trust Squad to do whats right for this game and that I liked what they previously had planned.

Why do people always assume a minority?

[Padishar]

...were delayed when they were nearly finished...

No, they were delayed because they weren't "nearly finished"....