[1.12.x] Alcubierre Warp Drive (Stand-alone)

[capi3101]

I've grabbed a test copy of the mod and the 1.3.1 zip. Probably high-time I began the process of switching over to 1.3.1 anyways. Will let you know how it goes.

[helaeon]

@TiktaalikDreaming Here's what I'm running (ton of mods) so should narrow things down a bit as it runs great for me.

X Science
B9 Partswitch
BlueDog_DB
BonVoyage
Coatl Aerospace
CCK
CRP
CTT
CommunityTraitIcons
ContractConfigurator
CrowdSourcedScience
DMagic Orbital Science
All of Nertea's Mods
EasyBoard
EVE
Firespitter (From USI)
Interstellar Fuel Switch
JX2 Antenna
KAS/KIS
KerbalHacks
KerbalEngineer
Kerbetrotter (FelineRover)
KerbNet Controller
Kraken Science
KSP-AVC
KSPRescuePodFix
ManeuverNodeEvolved
MechJeb (current Dev)
MiningExpansion
Mk2Expansion
MK3Expansion
NavHud
NavyFish
PartCommanderContinued
PartOverhauls
PatchManager
PlanetaryBaseInc
PortraitStats
RCSBuildAid
SCANsat
scatterer
ScienceRelay
SeriousBusiness
StageRecovery
SVE
Tantares(&LV)
TextureReplacer (For now, going to go TRR soon)
TokamakIndustries
Trajectories
TriggerTech (Alternate Resource Panel, and KAC)
USI (Akita,ExpPack,FTT,Karibou,Konstruction,Kontainers,MKS, Malemute,ReactorPack,SrvPack,SubPack,WarpDrive)
VenStockRevamp
VesselCategorizer
WaypointManager
WildBlue (Buffalo, DSEV,KerbalKIS,MOLE,Pathfinder)
ModuleManager2.8.1

I just re-dropped my install back to github just to make sure you're using what I am. https://github.com/helaeon/WarpDrive

[TiktaalikDreaming]

3 minutes ago, helaeon said:

@TiktaalikDreaming Here's what I'm running (ton of mods) so should narrow things down a bit as it runs great for me.

X Science
B9 Partswitch
BlueDog_DB
BonVoyage
Coatl Aerospace
CCK
CRP
CTT
CommunityTraitIcons
ContractConfigurator
CrowdSourcedScience
DMagic Orbital Science
All of Nertea's Mods
EasyBoard
EVE
Firespitter (From USI)
Interstellar Fuel Switch
JX2 Antenna
KAS/KIS
KerbalHacks
KerbalEngineer
Kerbetrotter (FelineRover)
KerbNet Controller
Kraken Science
KSP-AVC
KSPRescuePodFix
ManeuverNodeEvolved
MechJeb (current Dev)
MiningExpansion
Mk2Expansion
MK3Expansion
NavHud
NavyFish
PartCommanderContinued
PartOverhauls
PatchManager
PlanetaryBaseInc
PortraitStats
RCSBuildAid
SCANsat
scatterer
ScienceRelay
SeriousBusiness
StageRecovery
SVE
Tantares(&LV)
TextureReplacer (For now, going to go TRR soon)
TokamakIndustries
Trajectories
TriggerTech (Alternate Resource Panel, and KAC)
USI (Akita,ExpPack,FTT,Karibou,Konstruction,Kontainers,MKS, Malemute,ReactorPack,SrvPack,SubPack,WarpDrive)
VenStockRevamp
VesselCategorizer
WaypointManager
WildBlue (Buffalo, DSEV,KerbalKIS,MOLE,Pathfinder)
ModuleManager2.8.1

I just re-dropped my install back to github just to make sure you're using what I am. https://github.com/helaeon/WarpDrive

Ha!

Thought I should check dates.  I was grabbing the bundled release zip file.  Um, from 2015.  I'll grab the current files. 

[helaeon]

@TiktaalikDreamingI thought that might have happened  I was just in the process of uploading a proper test zip for folks so they don't have to clone the repository.
There is a zip there now.

[TiktaalikDreaming]

3 minutes ago, helaeon said:

@TiktaalikDreamingI thought that might have happened  I was just in the process of uploading a proper test zip for folks so they don't have to clone the repository.
There is a zip there now.

You can just download a zip from the "clone or download" button.  I just didn't think of checking.  Game loads. 

[JadeOfMaar]

On 11/4/2017 at 7:00 PM, helaeon said:

1:1 systems are still an issue though because fuel flow should probably be dropped by a factor of 10 when using one of those systems - though that could be handled with a MM patch that is re-named from .txt to .cfg if using a 1:1 system

I've just proven an MM patch given by @Sigma88 that will give the engines awareness to the system scale. I've been looking for this myself as I also have engines whose performances need to adjust to the system scale.

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by JadeOfMaar

[helaeon]

@JadeOfMaar Thanks that should do just what I need.
Will be a few more hours before I can get back to my kerbal computer... if anyone has a better idea than multiplying warpfactor & turbofactor by the scale of the system I'm happy to do that instead as this patch is for folks that like to play a different way than I do - it's for you. So in a 10x system top warp would be 60c, with a turbo factor of 40 so I think that puts turbo at 250c or more.
I think for folks running multiple star systems they'll need to adjust that turbo factor on their own so it gets into the thousands. 

Edited November 8, 2017 by helaeon

[helaeon]

@JadeOfMaar @TiktaalikDreaming I just uploaded a scaledsystems.cfg based on JadeOfMaar's framework to my github.

@RoverDude Unless someone has an issue that comes up tomorrow or Friday I think I'll do the pull request when I get home from work Friday. I'm not seeing anything that I am feeling like I need to change on my end.

[capi3101]

Went ahead and made the transition  to 1.3.1 today; all my mods are in place and functioning normally.

What changes have you made to the mod as far as failsafe altitudes are concerned, @helaeon? I ask because I took the Phoenix 4 probe on a jaunt from Duna over to Jool and was able to use the drive to an altitude less than 9,000,000 m over Jool (the probe uses one of the old 0.625m drives, and in velocity mode if that matters). Didn't auto cut-off; I just shut it down after a bit.

Got some new engine parts for which to calculate some nav guides, looks like. 

I can navigate with the changes. Bit disconcerting to be running flat out with the thrust limiter at full and still not be doing more than .1c. On the other hand, those azimuth change maneuvers are a lot easier to do without accompanying drastic altitude changes. The increased power requirement was a bit of a shock, but a welcome change...increases the pucker factor by quite a bit.

Can you give me the rundown on how the electrical charge requirements have changed? My current designs only employ 4 RTGs for power...

Going to have to try out angular momentum mode again to let y'all know how it behaves. At the moment I haven't got any momentum craft up.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by capi3101

[helaeon]

@capi3101 I reduced the failsafe altitude by half. I did that for personal preferences (actually in my game it's half again so I'm at a quarter). 600 km above Kerbin seemed more than fair for a cut off and was asked about it a lot previously so made it the thing, also it lets you use the repeated slingshot maneuver much more easily in AM mode. Especially with the new auto braking function it slows you way, way down so you may not want to get that deep in the gravity well anyway. I wanted us to want to shut warp down because we weren't going fast enough rather than hitting the hard fail-safe most of the time. Glad to hear that's working as intended . You can adjust how gnarly that fall off is by editing "GravFactor" in the config - be warned though that is a fiddly parameter and I spent quite a lot of time narrowing in that number by play testing. "GravFactor" and "BrakeFalloff" work together to slow you down coming into a gravity well, if one of the numbers is too big you don't get "caught" as easily. 

The .1c going flat out deep in the gravity well for a little while is also exactly what I was going for. Mostly because it does make maneuvers a lot easier and far far less fiddly while making blowing past your target far less easy. Partly because I wanted the problem of getting too deep in a gravity well and needing large amounts of power to climb out of that heavily warped space. Consider it that warping already warped space is hard, of course this is the most pronounced around heavy bodies like Jool and Kerbol.

If you go into your save file you can toggle the AM variable there if you don't want to launch new ships.

I based everything on the 3.75m Z drive. I wanted it to use the power output of 8 large fuel cells in stock so 144 ec/s. The rest scale down from there. For a modded game with USI, NFE, FFT, or DSEV, I wanted that 3.75m drive to use more power than the MPDT from NearFuture Propulsion, so it's well over 3000 ec/s. Again they scale down from there. I'm not at my Kerbal computer, I can give exact numbers when I get home. The number for fuel use shown in the VAB is true though, you do need that many ec/s when running flat out. It's handled by ModuleEngines so uses fuel like any other engine.

[capi3101]

Alright - so let me just make sure I understand correctly: the new cutoff distance for the 2.5 engine is now half a planetary radius, and for the 0.625 engine it's 3/4 of a planetary radius. Is that correct? What about the new engines?

Kind of a shame on the 2.5 engine - with the failsafe cutoff at one planetary radius, the failsafe orbital velocity was exactly half escape velocity said the maths...I'll have to see if there's another neat correlation now.

[helaeon]

They are all half. The differences are all in fuel use, efficiency of the exotic matter converter, the model, and bubble size. The USI drives are more efficient, the Z drives are a lot lighter (maybe too much I might make them a bit heavier before I push them tonight).

I changed a lot of things about how the math is applied to the game. There were quite a few things that weren't working as intended (for example warp distance wasn't being applied vs physics tick so depending on your physics tick value in settings you would get a different warp speed), so it might be a good idea to check to make sure what worked before still does. The gravity brake is obviously a major major change.

[helaeon]

@RoverDude Just submitted the PR. I also made a changelog for all I could remember I did. Feel free to change the version number I chose if something else fits in with the USI scheme better.
There are some pretty major changes. I don't think they will be craft breaking but folks should have a heads up... big one is warp drives now use a lot more power.

[capi3101]

4 hours ago, helaeon said:

They are all half. The differences are all in fuel use, efficiency of the exotic matter converter, the model, and bubble size.<snip />

All half...okay. That simplifies the nav tables (my main concern behind the question).

Just for the hell of it, let me calculate the new relationship between failsafe orbital velocity and escape velocity.

V_f = √(µ/1.5r); V_f² = µ/1.5r; 1.5rV_f² = µ
V_e = √(2µ/r); V_e² = 2µ/r; (rV_e²)/ 2= µ
(rV_e²)/ 2 = 1.5rV_f² ; (rV_e²)/ 3r = V_f² ;  V_e²/ 3 = V_f²; V_f = √(V_e²/ 3) = V_e(√(1/3)), which approximates to 0.5774V_e.

So failsafe orbital velocity is now the square root of one-third times escape velocity. Let me make sure the math's right:

Kerbin - g = 9.806 m/s², r = 600,000 m,  g = µ/r², µ = gr² = 3,530,160,000,000 m³/s².
V_f = √(µ/1.5r) = √(3,530,160,000,000/1.5*600,000) = 1980.50499 m/s
V_e = √(2µ/r) = √(2*3,530,160,000,000/600,000) = 3430.335 m/s
V_f = xV_e, V_f/V_e = x = 1980.50499 / 3430.335 = 0.5774, which matches.

Fun with math; not really all that important. To generate the new tables, I'll use that first equation I've got there and sub in µ = gr² . V_f = √(gr²/1.5r) = √(gr/1.5)

1 minute ago, helaeon said:

I don't think they will be craft breaking but folks should have a heads up... big one is warp drives now use a lot more power.

Boy howdy do they...going to have to redesign the production Heighliner to include more RTGs...makes me glad I hadn't launched the thing in my career save just yet...

Went from only needing four RTGs to 115 for the 2.5 meter engine, if I'm reading things right.

 

[helaeon]

Idea was that they should use a TON of power, and really I'm expecting warp drive people to also be using other USI mods and/or Near Future.

I'd suggest considering using fuel cells and bring some liquid fuel and oxidizer along rather than that many RTGs. 8 large fuel cells should power the 3.75m warp drive. That was my thought anyway. Smaller drives need less power.
6-8 large solar panels also work. You'll will need to bring enough battery power (or a couple RTGs and/or fuel cell generators) along to buffer the losses when out at Jool or not optimally placed

[capi3101]

Yeah, I was rolling the math around in my head overnight and came to the conclusion that Fuel Cell Arrays were probably going to be the stock way to go from here on out, at least for running the drive itself; I'd still reserve solar panels for the exotic matter generator in close proximity to Kerbol.

I've got a nav guide to update; will try to have that done for y'all by the end of the week.   

[helaeon]

@capi3101 if you need insight into what the drive is actually doing please ping me and I'll help as best I can.

Try warping at the planet when you've aligned the planet to be retrograde of your current position & trajectory and see what happens, especially in AM mode.  It was a maneuver that you could always do but was fiddly because of the way the throttle worked. With gravity brake it is pretty neat. It also works alright sitting at your intended periapsis.

[capi3101]

Here's a quick question - I was in my career save a second ago and noticed that the two smaller z-model engines weren't available. At what point are they intended to be available? Stock tech tree.

[helaeon]

@capi3101Looks like I have those configured for CTT only. Woops.

should be TechRequired = experimentalScience

[capi3101]

Alright, thanks. I've made the necessary set of adjustments to my local save.

Flew Phoenix 4 from Duna out to Bop over the weekend. Not too much difference in the way the mod works, though I will say that putting all those batteries on the probe turned out to be a really good idea (it was a pre-update craft; haven't launched anything new just yet). Being able to get closer to Bop turned out to be a good thing; got the relative velocity down to 350 m/s over Jool (not slow enough) but I was able to use Bop's own gravity close to failsafe to finish things off. Only had to yo-yo once. I did manage to warp through Bop's SOI at high speed when I finally decided to head out that way, though that may be because I had physics warp turned on at 4x at the time...

EDIT: Why Bop? It's stupid...I asked my 2-yr old where I should go and that was his response.

Edited November 13, 2017 by capi3101

[Szeperator]

Do you still work on this mod? If so would it be possible to make a MK2 Version of the warpdrive? Or could someone explain me how to do it myself? I tried it by just coping one of the config files and changed the mesh to the standard mk2 fuel tank. But when I started the game it just crashed... 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Szeperator

[goldenpsp]

2 hours ago, Szeperator said:

Do you still work on this mod? If so would it be possible to make a MK2 Version of the warpdrive? Or could someone explain me how to do it myself? I tried it by just coping one of the config files and changed the mesh to the standard mk2 fuel tank. But when I started the game it just crashed... 

 

 

Nah,  only 3 pages of posts in the last 2 weeks specifically dealing with updates and new stuff, this mod is dead...

You probably could do this via a modulemanager config.  The MM thread has detailed instructions on how to use it.

 

[Szeperator]

Ok thanks will try  Sry if I seemed ignorant.

Edit: Yeah, got it to work  thanks man. 

Maybe I will extend this little Project to be more fleshed out and post it here...

Edited November 13, 2017 by Szeperator

[Enot02]

On 03.11.2017 at 1:54 AM, helaeon said:

The bubble is pretty important to gameplay balancing, especially with the three new ones being added next version (same model, but 3 sizes). The 3.75m version has a bubble about the size of the VAB.

Well, I'd like to build an Enterprise but it doesn't fit in the bubble... Also could you make a 1.25 m variant? Please it would make my life so much easier.

[helaeon]

9 hours ago, Enot02 said:

Well, I'd like to build an Enterprise but it doesn't fit in the bubble... Also could you make a 1.25 m variant? Please it would make my life so much easier.

In my test version there is a folding warp drive that has a 1.25 node.
The way the module works is you have a model that is the part, then a scaled version of the warp bubble. You want that warp bubble to correspond to BubbleSize in USI_ModuleWarpEngine. Scale 1 roughly equals bubble size of 20 in the cfg.
There's nothing stopping you from making a MM patch or modifying the config to make a part with a bigger bubble or scale the whole part to something new.