End game to career mode

[nR3c]

Hi,

I believe there's no actual end game in the career mode but i'd like to know what's generally considered being an end to the game in this mode.

Might just be to plant a flag on the Mun, or explore every planet, unlocking every tech, i don't know.

So what's the end game for you ?

Thank you very much

[Janos1986]

Going interstellar!

[Superfluous J]

Every time I start a new career I have an endgame in mind. Included in them:

A base - probably Kethane (or Karbonite for this current run) and/or Extraplanetary Launchpad setup on every single planet and moon (Except Jool itself).

"Apollo Style" mission to every planet and moon, with the caveat that once you've landed somewhere you can never go back (makes getting science interesting).

Find all anomalies/easter eggs.

So far I've successfully only done the middle one of those. One big problem is I tend to restart when a new build comes out.

[Wanderfound]

Endgame: play Career until I get bored of it, then mess around in Sandbox until the next update comes out.

[dryer_lint]

But the whole point of KSP is for it to be... infinite, isn't it?

Interstellar would be a cool endgame though.

[KerbMav]

One big problem is I tend to restart when a new build comes out.

Yup.

In a game with RemoteTech the first step is clear. Else I go for Mun landings, Minmus, a Kerbin Orbital Station and probes to other planets/moons. Every update all over again.

I still return to my 23.5 save to get my Jool mission done. It is the save I set out to visit every (real, not graphic glitched) anomaly.

Plane problems got me to cancel the Kerbin ones and do it later, but the crew is still out there picking up the Duna expedition.

My current save in .90 is the first I really play career with money and all - I skipped a few updates and tended to other games for a while - but I do not have a real goal yet apart from visiting more bodies: Had no manned mission to Moho yet, only probes. 23.5 marked the update I visited all of Jool moons. Although I visited Eve and Duna, I have not been to Gilly or Ike (trying to get the latter done in 23.5 still). Dres and Eeloo have not even seen a probe from me ever (though playing since 06/13). So having visited every planet and moon in either one save or in my total KSP career is something I plan for.

I have not done a Grand Tour with a single ship to every body. Not sure if I would do it with a ressource system, refueling drones or one massive fuel tank under my trailer.

Also .90 will most likely be alive as long as I have not managed an Eve manned return (with the old aerodynamics and without FAR), it requires mostly high tech, so it could be considered an end game goal.

A Duna colony with one of the life support mods installed, trying to get it self-contained, is something I have considered for quite some time.

Compare KSP to Sim City (lets say SC4, not the abomination that came afterwards ...) or X3, for some games you have to find your own end game - not because it is a design flaw, but it is part of the design. All three start out with building a foundation despite some obstacles (lack of money and/or tech) to start your own adventures from.

And there is always the option to start a new fresh game with different mods and difficulty settings, trying to do better still with what you have learned before.

[Musil]

for some games you have to find your own end game - not because it is a design flaw, but it is part of the design.

I agree, BUT: I would like there to be a much larger tech tree, maybe with upgrades for parts or something. Kerbin's SOI has enough science to complete the current tree, so I cant justify (from a roleplay point of view, I guess) going interplanetary. If not for science, what for?

[Starhawk]

I always feel a bit of a let-down after I finish unlocking the tech tree. I always have so much more to do, but all that science is worthless. I guess I could convert it to cash with a strategy.

[KerbMav]

I agree, BUT: I would like there to be a much larger tech tree, maybe with upgrades for parts or something.

It would be interesting to see how the community would react if there were 909-MKII and 909-MKIII as well.

Pilots making machines work better was (rightfully!) rejected.

[Wanderfound]

I agree, BUT: I would like there to be a much larger tech tree, maybe with upgrades for parts or something. Kerbin's SOI has enough science to complete the current tree, so I cant justify (from a roleplay point of view, I guess) going interplanetary. If not for science, what for?

I've been arguing for a while that the tech tree should be extended with a substantial number of increasingly expensive nodes that each contain one advanced scientific instrument. Something to keep the science chase alive, but not something that you feel obliged to unlock before heading interplanetary.

[cicatrix]

As for me the end-game happens when I visit and map all bodies. Then I just start a new career or start making and flying some crazy craft designs.

I convert all science into cash when the research tree is done, but it's not very much compared to an average contract reward so doing science becomes more or less pointless, I gather it all the same though.

KSP Interstellar provides an ultimate goal - the warp drive which costs 10K science + it requires 3-5K prerequisites. Now this is a more challenging task.

[tater]

I always feel a bit of a let-down after I finish unlocking the tech tree. I always have so much more to do, but all that science is worthless. I guess I could convert it to cash with a strategy.

There is a lot of psychology in game design, and the primary reward system in KSP is unlocking tech, so your reaction is normal, IMO.

The best possible answer would be for the Kerbol system to be randomized each new career (keep default seed as an option). It would need to randomize orbits, masses, radii, atmospheres, etc. Players would only gain information on other worlds based on doing science. At that point part of the reward system would be actually exploring.

[EdFred]

For me, it's when I have finished the tech tree and landed and returned from every other body in the system. TGFKAC.

[r4pt0r]

I dont like doing missions outside of local kerbin, or building stations/bases, until ive completed the tree.

If I am building permanent structures or doing long missions, I like to have all parts at my disposal.

I like career for needing a budget, and I like doing the science stuff though. so i just grind through it to start.

Edited January 14, 2015 by r4pt0r

[Yemo]

Yup.

In a game with RemoteTech the first step is clear. Else I go for Mun landings, Minmus, a Kerbin Orbital Station and probes to other planets/moons. Every update all over again.

For a change from your routine, you may want to try out my SETI-BalanceMod (link in signature), especially with all supported mods.

Starting with probes and simple manned rocket "planes" (for the bugged unmoddable altitude contracts). Then you have to decide on meaningful choices, liquid fuel rockets (for simple orbiter probes), planes or recoverable space probes. And you might think twice about setting up your standard remote tech network, because at 90 science electrics, you only get alkaline fuel cells (universal storage). So be prudent with your energy consumption on your first sats. Do you retire your alkaline fuel cell sats? Or do you resupply/retrofit the larger ones with hydrogen/oxygen/solar panels, using KerbalAttachmentSystem?

@Starhawk: Career mode is unbalanced with regards to science, use mods to correct that.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Yemo

[Starhawk]

There is a lot of psychology in game design, and the primary reward system in KSP is unlocking tech, so your reaction is normal, IMO.

You are absolutely right! At the most 'meta' level game design is all about psychology. The reward system in any game is critical to that psychology.

For me, it would even help if the science could be used to make parts more efficient... or something. In my first career game in 0.23.5 my save has like over 9000 science. I was so 'programmed' to collect science that I kept accumulating it even though it was useless. By the time I did my 'Four moons of Jool' mission, I was smart enough to leave all the scientific instruments at home.

Also, it seems to me that if the various unlockables are fleshed out, they could be a more significant part of the reward system in the game as well. For instance, if the leveling up of Kerbals meant more, I would have more incentive to get more of them to different SOI's. But, for now, leveling up past level three doesn't really do anything useful. (Especially if you've finished unlocking the tech tree!)

Back to the original topic. In future, I want to complete manned/kerbed landings on all bodies in the system in a single career.

Visit all anomalies - there are still some I've never been to.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Starhawk

[Travisfv]

My endgame is always when the next update comes out. It's a fresh start every time. Probably why I don't get to see much outside of the Kerbin system and Duna. Visited Eeloo once... I wasn't ready.

[KerbMav]

.

If the science reports were more fleshed out, providing "real" science, a background story for each planet/moon, describe curious events etc. then it would be worth to "grind" every experiment in every situation to, lets say, complete a scientific library to visit and read back at KSC. (Downloadable to a phone for reading maybe.)

[tater]

I think endgame is a function of the overall scope desired by the devs.

Right now the entire tech tree gets unlocked by at most the time of the first low dv Duna window (possibly later in so-called "hard" mode (which to me is more of a grind without actual difficulty in gameplay). So "endgame" unless they add some time-based mechanic is like 1 year after achieving orbit, lol.

Forget the time frame for a moment, then, and think of scope. KSP is sort of a retro space race. Most all the tech is from the 1960s. The most advanced is maybe the rapier (sabre?) which was thought of early (50s), but is not yet there. Spaceplane parts vary from 60s to 70s otherwise. Assuming that near future for RL is the actual endgame, then they need to add more stuff to play with. The real scope would be space exploration as a scientific/national endeavor, but not colonization/exploitation. That might be KSP 2 (which I would happily pay for the day 1.0 comes out as a kickstarter).

So I'd see endgame in KSP as exploring the system. If you push it out, then the tree needs massive expansion, IMO, with more of an eye towards longer term expeditions.

[SorryDave]

Sometimes, I try to unlock the tech tree as soon as possible so I can actually use the parts to build vehicles that do not exist in the real world (spaceplanes and interplanetary passenger liners).

Sometimes I try and complete as many contracts as possible without unlocking the tree. Once you have ladders, fuel lines, solar panels, and docking parts you can visit almost everywhere. Except for better test contract rewards, the later parts are just fun.

For fun, the career mode should end with one question: Now that you developed a space program and technology, what will you do with it?

[PTNLemay]

I think when I land a Kerbal on Eeloo (and Moho) it will be a pretty solid indicator that I've masted the game. But that's the thing, you can always one-up yourself. You can send a 3 man capsule to Eeloo, or a 15-man base! It never has to end.

So it's best to just go on a case-by-case basis (or rather, person-by-person). If your proudest achievement is planting a flag on Duna, that's great. Don't look to others and feel like your best achievements are inadequate. If that's your "End Game", then be proud of having achieved it.

[WanderingKid]

My usual endgame is whenever I've hit every system with a ship at least once. Sometimes this makes for some insane builds when the next version is coming out as I try to send stuff way off transfer window.

Now that I've started a LP on it... I'm not sure.

[Starhawk]

If the science reports were more fleshed out, providing "real" science, a background story for each planet/moon, describe curious events etc. then it would be worth to "grind" every experiment in every situation to, lets say, complete a scientific library to visit and read back at KSC. (Downloadable to a phone for reading maybe.)

I think this is a very good idea. If the current system even had a display with little green lights for experiments done and little red lights or black spaces for experiments uncompleted that would be some incentive to try and continue doing science in the late game.

[Francois424]

Depends on the game mostly.

But I usually have a Grand Tour (or a Jool-5 if time is a constraint) that I do once he tree is unlocked.

I mod slightly, mostly for basic parts and clouds and the likes, but I *do* add in an end-game powerful Ion engine (2.5m, Very high ISP, 250 thrust, Xenon/Electric-eating) with which I build my mothership. For keeping within the spirit of the challenge of KSP, none of my landers have that engine and must rely on plain old KSP tech.

Takes a while to setup and (thanks to lag from 500+ part) an equally/longer time to perform.

After it's all said and done, I consider that game finished.

That is why I am hoping for stock outer planets one day (Saturn with 3-5 moons, Uranus with 3-4, and Neptune with 2-3, to make the whole end-game exploration even more interesting), or just 64bits so I can install the great outer planet mod that was featured last week (or was it the week before ?).

[redsh]

Developing reusable technology is interesting objective for late career, I think. This also can make sense for stations (as fuel/equipment depots and assembly bases for interplanetary).