[1.2] OSE Workshop - KIS Addon: (v1.1.0 - 2016.11.03)

[ObiVanDamme]

Obi - let me know where you land on that. I ping'd Taniwha RE what he was thinking RE resources, but in either case we should make sure you and I are at least in sync

Did you already take a look at taniwhas recipe implementation? It basically allows to specify one or more resources to be required to build parts. You can specify recipes for parts, modules and recoures. In the end the mechanism provides a list with required resources (which one and how many) and optional resources (liquid fuel, oxidizer, electric charge).

I will use that exact implementation and process the required resource list in the workshop. When processing is done the part added to the inventory will have all optional resources set to zero and all the rest set to max amount.

In addition to that I wanted to provide a very simple default set of recipes

- two resources in a 1:1 ratio for each part (MaterialKits, SpecializedParts)

- a single resource for each of the required resources like ablator or solid fuel ("stock" ore)

Until CRP is ready I will provide the configurations for those resources by myself and add a single harvestable resource that is not present on kerbin to create SpecializedParts. This should exactly be what we already discussed before. To match the MKS multi resource system all you need to do is replace the recipes for the resources (polymers or chemicals makes sense) and switch the converters for MaterialKits and RocketParts. When CRP is ready I plan to provide the simple "stock config", that I already used and a config, that is 100% MKS compatible.

[goldenpsp]

So curious. I'm not sure if I have run into an issue or i don't know what I'm doing. I just recently installed OSE. I also am a heavy USI mod user including MKS. I wanted to build a MK V- ILM from MKS, but I could not find the part in the OSE menu. Rover put all of the items in a custom Kolonization category but that category doesn't seem to show up.

[ObiVanDamme]

So curious. I'm not sure if I have run into an issue or i don't know what I'm doing. I just recently installed OSE. I also am a heavy USI mod user including MKS. I wanted to build a MK V- ILM from MKS, but I could not find the part in the OSE menu. Rover put all of the items in a custom Kolonization category but that category doesn't seem to show up.

The filters in the Workshop menu are not dynamic. I matched all categories that come with a stock install by hand. All other parts can be found in the second tab from the right (robot icon), which represents the "none" category. Usually that is used by other mod authors to place their items in custom VAB filters. I hope i will find a way to dynamically retrieve all custom filters including the icons, but at the moment this is not possible, sorry.

[goldenpsp]

The filters in the Workshop menu are not dynamic. I matched all categories that come with a stock install by hand. All other parts can be found in the second tab from the right (robot icon), which represents the "none" category. Usually that is used by other mod authors to place their items in custom VAB filters. I hope i will find a way to dynamically retrieve all custom filters including the icons, but at the moment this is not possible, sorry.

Ok that makes sense. I'm guessing their is a weight limit to the parts OSE can make? I do see the karibou probe core in that tab, which is in rovers Kolonization category. It is only .1T. I also see 2 of the small spherical tanks from the freight category. But not the ILM's I know they are on the heavy side comparatively, although they are KIS compatible.

[RoverDude]

Did you already take a look at taniwhas recipe implementation? It basically allows to specify one or more resources to be required to build parts. You can specify recipes for parts, modules and recoures. In the end the mechanism provides a list with required resources (which one and how many) and optional resources (liquid fuel, oxidizer, electric charge).

I will use that exact implementation and process the required resource list in the workshop. When processing is done the part added to the inventory will have all optional resources set to zero and all the rest set to max amount.

In addition to that I wanted to provide a very simple default set of recipes

- two resources in a 1:1 ratio for each part (MaterialKits, SpecializedParts)

- a single resource for each of the required resources like ablator or solid fuel ("stock" ore)

Until CRP is ready I will provide the configurations for those resources by myself and add a single harvestable resource that is not present on kerbin to create SpecializedParts. This should exactly be what we already discussed before. To match the MKS multi resource system all you need to do is replace the recipes for the resources (polymers or chemicals makes sense) and switch the converters for MaterialKits and RocketParts. When CRP is ready I plan to provide the simple "stock config", that I already used and a config, that is 100% MKS compatible.

heh, well I think we're in the right book but not on the same page.

What I am really trying to avoid is to have people's resource chain change in OSE if they install MKS (and to be honest, a single resource path to specialized parts completely breaks MKS).

i.e. right now, in the MKS adaption of OSE, it's three harvestable resources to make materialkits (and likely the same three but combined with some of the existing commodities for SpecialziedParts). Understanding that Taniwha was moving that direction as well (he mentioned things like ceramics, etc.), the idea was for us to sort out and standardize what those would be, so integration would be a lot more seamless.

As it is, given it's been about a month and gentle reminders are not getting us an EL resource list, I figure the two of us can at least come up with something and get it sorted - but ultimately that's your call If a multi-resource path does not fit in with OSE, I can just move forward with something on my own, since I'll have to do that with EL anyway, until such time as Taniwha changes the EL 'hard' mode, at which point I can circle back.

[ObiVanDamme]

heh, well I think we're in the right book but not on the same page.

What I am really trying to avoid is to have people's resource chain change in OSE if they install MKS (and to be honest, a single resource path to specialized parts completely breaks MKS).

i.e. right now, in the MKS adaption of OSE, it's three harvestable resources to make materialkits (and likely the same three but combined with some of the existing commodities for SpecialziedParts). Understanding that Taniwha was moving that direction as well (he mentioned things like ceramics, etc.), the idea was for us to sort out and standardize what those would be, so integration would be a lot more seamless.

As it is, given it's been about a month and gentle reminders are not getting us an EL resource list, I figure the two of us can at least come up with something and get it sorted - but ultimately that's your call If a multi-resource path does not fit in with OSE, I can just move forward with something on my own, since I'll have to do that with EL anyway, until such time as Taniwha changes the EL 'hard' mode, at which point I can circle back.

I think we are closer than it might seem. My default configuration will use CRP and will use a multi resource system, that will not change when MKS is installed. I planned to use your path to MaterialKits and SpecializedParts that you already implemented and provide default recipes that use those two resources. What I am saying is, that I would like to provide an optional "stock config", that will use the single resource system I used before to reach MaterialKits and SpecializedParts, because I had the feedback, that many of the players using OSE Workshop liked it because of it's simplicity and the single resource path. But as already said, my prefered way of playing and the default configuration for future OSE versions will be the MKS compatible multi resource path you already created

[Sahadara]

Any updates on recipe based manufacturing? Any chance a prospective release date can be hypothesized at?

[ObiVanDamme]

Any updates on recipe based manufacturing? Any chance a prospective release date can be hypothesized at?

I am sorry, but there is a lot of private things going on and I am very limited at the moment. I might even screw the plans to build something EPL compatible and build something very simple on my own, just to get it going. Sorry for the delay and the long time without any updates

[Businfu]

I am sorry, but there is a lot of private things going on and I am very limited at the moment. I might even screw the plans to build something EPL compatible and build something very simple on my own, just to get it going. Sorry for the delay and the long time without any updates

I really like the way this mod fits in with EPL and MKS... It would be a shame to screw the plans for compatibility. As is, this is literally the perfect mod for those like myself who enjoy a difficult career mode experience that rewards recycling old stations/stages/whatever for parts. Although EPL is great for end game, there is something really satisfying/immersive about the way your mod rewards building things bit by bit with KIS. Moving away from compatibility with these other mods would be an immersion-breaking bummer. Don't get me wrong, I'm also a fan of the concept of resource requirements (especially EnrichedUranium) but maintaining cooperation with other great mods is more important IMHO.

[goldenpsp]

I really like the way this mod fits in with EPL and MKS... It would be a shame to screw the plans for compatibility. As is, this is literally the perfect mod for those like myself who enjoy a difficult career mode experience that rewards recycling old stations/stages/whatever for parts. Although EPL is great for end game, there is something really satisfying/immersive about the way your mod rewards building things bit by bit with KIS. Moving away from compatibility with these other mods would be an immersion-breaking bummer. Don't get me wrong, I'm also a fan of the concept of resource requirements (especially EnrichedUranium) but maintaining cooperation with other great mods is more important IMHO.

I don't think it is the way you are thinking. IIRC Obi was working towards recipes that would be in line with EPL's recipes. Given that Taniwha hasn't even released any recipe stuff I don't think it would "break" anything. The two mods dont really work together now yet coexist fine in the same game.

[ObiVanDamme]

Businfu: I do not plan to move away from any of those mods. All three of those in the same game just work perfectly. I am currently working to integrate even better by using the same resource system. By "screwing epl compatibility" I did just mean, that I will use my own recipe system. This is purely a technical Issue. My initial plans where to use the exact same config files that come with EPL and other mods MM patches for EPL without providing something on my own. EPL's recipe system is extremely powerful and tailored to support building of crafts. Given that I operate on a part base this system was too much for me and for the moment too complicated to "reimplement". I already finished my own system just yesterday and will start to move the processing of parts over to this system.

Gameplay wise this means, that both mods will work in a very similar way. When we finally share the resource system thay basically work in the excact same way. The only difference is, that we might provide different recipes for the same part, or some other mod authors will only provide recipes for one mod while the other will use its default for that part. No worries about breaking compatibility gameplay wise. It is just a technical Issue ;-)

[RoverDude]

Tossing this out there - I will happily tie the MKS side over to OSE. Naturally there will be (on my side) different chains to get to the end, so likely it will be a case of MKS Lite / OSE work together out of the box with the same stuff, with UKS expanding the chain a bit like it does today. In any case, I'll defer to wherever Obi lands, since I for one really like this mod's direction and have plans to further integrate with it in some of my other stuff

[ObiVanDamme]

OSE Workshop 0.11.0-PRE has just been released

• OSE Workshop is no longer dependent on a specific version of KIS. => Updating KIS should no longer break OSE Workshop
  
• Implemented multi resource system
  
  • Parts can require multiple resources to be created
    
  • Default recipe is still MaterialKits
    
  • Introduced RareMetals and ExoticMinerals as new Resources to support the multi resource system
    
  • Introduced Dirt as new mineable resource. Dirt can be converted to RareMetals and ExoticMinerals using the Material Extractor
    

This Version has the multiple resources system up and running. There is still a lot of work to do, to make it a final release. At the moment everything uses the default recipe of MaterialKits only. I tested the override with the Gravmax Gravioli Detector which uses Exotic Minerals only. The rest will come later. The Recycler has been forgotten for several releases now (it even uses an old version of the GUI), but I will make it work with this new system as well before releasing the official version. Feel free to grab the pre-release from Github here. Please let me know what you think about and do not hesitate to point out any bugs or errors you encounter.

This version of OSE Workshop is tailored to work together with MKS-Lite out of the box in the future. We are currently working on the alignment of resources and with the exception of MaterialKits everything else is already set up. Ore, Dirt, RareMetals and ExoticMinerals have the same Resource Definitions in both mods and the converters work exactly the same with the MKS-L converters being twice as efficient.

I hope you enjoy this update and what will come in the future. Stay tuned.

[Enceos]

Obi, u forgot my new models

[ObiVanDamme]

Obi, u forgot my new models

Did you make a pull request on Github? I did not see anything. I am very sorry. Please create the pull request and I will add it to the next update. I might release on a daily base while working on the fine tuning.

[RoverDude]

FYI I'll be updating MKS-Lite by the end of the week to sync up with the OSE Workshop default config. UKS will still override for a more complex production chain, but will still use MaterialKits vs RocketParts. This should make cross-mod support a lot easier.

Obi - before I forget - you have MaterialKits in 1L units yes?

[ObiVanDamme]

FYI I'll be updating MKS-Lite by the end of the week to sync up with the OSE Workshop default config. UKS will still override for a more complex production chain, but will still use MaterialKits vs RocketParts. This should make cross-mod support a lot easier.

Obi - before I forget - you have MaterialKits in 1L units yes?

What do you mean by 1L units? This is my Resource Definition

RESOURCE_DEFINITION

{

name = MaterialKits

density = 0.00075

unitCost = 1

flowMode = ALL_VESSEL

transfer = PUMP

isTweakable = true

}

density is in kg per unit, right?

- - - Updated - - -

First quick update for the pre-release.

I fixed a bug, that caused the 3D printer not to start printing

Parts that can store Ablator or SolidFuel will be printed with the maxAmount stored in those parts using Ore as a resource during the printing process

[taniwha]

ObiVanDamme: He means that 1u of resource is 1L in volume (ie, 1000u fills 1m³ of space). This is in contrast to the LFO "standard" of 5L (200u/m³), which EL uses for MetalOre, Metal, ScrapMetal and RocketParts. It makes the math a lot easier.

[ObiVanDamme]

ObiVanDamme: He means that 1u of resource is 1L in volume (ie, 1000u fills 1m³ of space). This is in contrast to the LFO "standard" of 5L (200u/m³), which EL uses for MetalOre, Metal, ScrapMetal and RocketParts. It makes the math a lot easier.

Ok, but where is this needed? Is it to make maxAmount inside a container more realistic?

[RoverDude]

Correct. So your 5000L container contains 5000 units

All of the CRP bits are 1L so you can use those as guides.

[ObiVanDamme]

Correct. So your 5000L container contains 5000 units

All of the CRP bits are 1L so you can use those as guides.

Ok, thank you for clarifying. I did not pay attention to that detail up to now. How can I get the volume of a part to adjust the resources inside?

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

Ok, thank you for clarifying. I did not pay attention to that detail up to now. How can I get the volume of a part to adjust the resources inside?

Most KSP parts are simple shapes (cylinders, rectangular prisms) -- it's not too hard to calculate (pi r^2 H).

[ObiVanDamme]

Most KSP parts are simple shapes (cylinders, rectangular prisms) -- it's not too hard to calculate (pi r^2 H).

Ok. I think this will Do as an Approximation

[kovdan13]

How can I get away the workshop items category?

[ObiVanDamme]

How can I get away the workshop items category?

if you mean in the vab. you can not get rid of it at the moment