Jestersage

Parts clipping

18 posts in this topic

For all those that does download other's craft: at what point would you consider parts clipping is too much that made you unwilling to download that craft?

I have added image link to my craft. Can someone critique the clipping?

The version with clipping: (reasoning: to centerize the docking port)
Front: http://imgur.com/M7DOd7J
Back: http://imgur.com/Bbzf5cs

The version with no clipping:
Front: http://imgur.com/JjUhU3p

Edited by Jestersage

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not really- part clipping can help make some quite beautiful and highly functional craft- look at @Cupcake...'s wonderful aerospacecraft and dropships, for example.

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I expect this depends on the same factors that determine how much part clipping one is willing to allow in their own vehicles. I design mainly for aesthetics so I can tolerate a lot of part clipping, but by the time it gets particularly out of hand (such as fuel tanks clipped entirely inside of other fuel tanks, or 5 Mainsails clipped inside each other) it usually ends up looking awful because of z-fighting so there's not much point in the part clipping anyway.

Edited by eloquentJane
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22 minutes ago, eloquentJane said:

it usually ends up looking awful because of z-fighting so there's not much point in the part clipping anyway.

This is basically my line for clipping. If you're tossing a bunch of engines onto a single node, that's one thing. But using unlimited offsets or something to make a compact and good-looking design? I'm all in favor of that. It doesn't even really give much mechanical benefit. With the exception of clipping more inside a cargo bay than you'd be able to fit otherwise, there's very little mechanical difference. All those clipped parts still have mass and drag.

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Clip clip clip! 

 Any form of clipping is fine for me just as long as you don't clip fuel in fuel then proclaim your craft is efficient or has an amazing range in a tiny package type stuff, that is very naughty indeed. :-)

 

Edited by Majorjim!
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I appreciate clipping as its own sort of art form, as long as it's acknowledged up front and truthfully.

But generally I have career rules against quantum space densification (ie tanks inside each other).  Parts that look empty though - adapters, SciJr, nose cones, etc - anything goes.

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I engage in some light clipping myself, but only to fit stuff in the cargo bays. As for fuel tanks and such, I tend to avoid it, because clipping another tank in another tank creates additional drag, so it's counter productive. I don't download overly clipped ships. Some clipping here and there is fine as long as it is done to fit something in while not making impossible to click each individual part.

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The reason I am asking is that I am polishing up my First to-public capsule, an Orion clone (name choice is between between "Jaeger" or "Weaver"). Instead of going with SLS route, it will be based on the Jupiter/DIRECT, Specifically v.2,'s Jupiter-232. Stock, of course.

The version with clipping: (reasoning: to centerize the docking port)
Front: http://imgur.com/M7DOd7J
Back: http://imgur.com/Bbzf5cs

The version with no clipping:
Front: http://imgur.com/JjUhU3p

Edited by Jestersage

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I'm with @Majorjim! on this one. Any form of clipping is okay, its a way of building, for as long as people dont abuse it too much for fuel. A little bit of clipping into fuel tanks is okay too IMO, as there is similar stuff IRL too. You can always dial the amount of fuel in the corresponding tanks down if you want, to simulate the lost fuel.

But clipping structural, empty parts together is actually encouraged IMO, welding and cutting etc is perfectly normal IRL. Otherwise craft in KSP look all the same and generic. Clipping opens infinite possibilities for designs, and can make very nice craft.

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On 2/15/2017 at 2:57 PM, Majorjim! said:

Clip clip clip! 

 Any form of clipping is fine for me just as long as you don't clip fuel in fuel then proclaim your craft is efficient or has an amazing range in a tiny package type stuff, that is very naughty indeed. :-)

 

I think I've been very naughty with a craft or two :blush:, but hey I would have never reached Warp speed. I'll behave in the future. Also isn't that how a Flux Capacitor is made? :D

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For my own spaceplanes, I don't have any problems clipping structural parts into each other (struts etc), but this is about the limit:

f0omLEJ.jpg

zbyGSCv.jpg

Or maybe even a little above the limit as the clipping of the base of the scanner into the cockpit really bothers me, but I still wanted to have a nice 'radome' nosecone for the Mk3 cockpit with the scanner embedded :D

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As long as you don't clip a bunch of fuel tanks in the same exact space I'm fine. :) 

I myself clip, ALOT. Mostly for innocent pourposes like keeping the sides looking clean or to remove that freakishly huge gap between spherical objects connected together.

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I have no objection to clipping. I tend to go for a specific look first, making it functional later - which regularly involves a fair amount of clipping. In KSP we get no option to weld or custom-design parts to take advantage of all the nooks and crannies that are usually available in a real craft after the outer shell has been decided on, so I see part clipping as the KSP equivalent.

I do have some reservations about fuel-in-fuel, but even that I feel justified to use at times. Eg. when using Mk3 cargo bays as fuel+service bays, I have no qualms about heavily clipping two 2.5m tanks into each other in the bay, because the stock tank sizes for Mk3 parts make no sense - just compare with 3.75m tanks to see what I mean, or place a single 2.5m tank in an Mk3 cargo bay and see how there is easily at least as much volume still left empty all around it.

Then there is my Hangar 51: the craft collected there have unknown alien origin and seem intent on violating physical laws as we understand them. Some of those craft may well employ pocket singularities to store Neutronium or Strange Matter as sources of energy for their engines... we just don't know.

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As a lot of posters above have said, clipping parts is a really subjective view as to what is acceptable/unacceptable.  I'll go ahead and add to the "clipping fuel tanks inside each other is naughty" camp.  If it makes you enjoy the game more to achieve something that way, more power to you; however if you post the craft on the forums and sing it's praises, you'll probably get some verbal (written) wrist-slapping. :P

Another reason to avoid getting too "clippy" with fuel tanks is it can make resource transfer procedures a pain, depending on the concentration and location of the clipping.  Heck, some craft I make without fuel tank clipping can be a pain in the rear end to refuel.

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clipping is fine for me. i love the possibilities to design something nice. i often clip the massive batterypacks into the vessel.

my no-go's: tank clipping. it has to be possible to click&select every tank or storage of the craft (for manual fueling).

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One small piece to add, I've noticed that clipping is much more common on planes than on rockets. Moderate clipping is almost necessary to make a space plane look and function well, but with rockets you can get by without it. This is reflected in the challenge forums, people often ask before using moderate clipping on their rockets, whereas it's considered a given for planes.

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It's really interesting how attitudes have changed over time.  Since I began lurking in 2014, i've seen it go from a significant portion saying "I never Clip" to the opinions in this thread.

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Yeah, I think a lot of that has to do with the assembly tools that Squad put into the game.  In the bad-old-days there was no Move or Rotate tool, so to clip things you had to get creative with clipping the camera through parts and attaching cubic struts (which were "bugged" and would attach to any surface visible by the camera.)  So the implication was that something was accomplished with an exploit.  When squad added the Move and Rotate tools, as well as more forgiving attachment rules, that is direct 'permission' by the developer to clip parts when building.  

Any restrictions are self-imposed according to whatever your take is on realism and fairness.  I'm all for clipping as long as it achieves a goal that is achievable another way.  (aesthetics, weight and balance, packaging restrictions).  I gladly use "empty" space in nosecones, structural adapters, and empty fuel tanks, but try not to clip fuel or engines into each other.  But none of those considerations keep me from downloading something that is cool, even if the craft is clip-ception.

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