Air Superiority Fighter Competition Continued

[Guest]

11 hours ago, ZLM-Master said:

Hi everyone . I'm back in KSP & i really like dogfight challenge , but i don't really know if i can submit my entry or if all is allready closed !

I finish one maned Jet-Fighter & one Drone-Fighter , i have a fresh KSP install with a few mod .

Last played in 2015 so i don't expect to win this challenge  But i can know if i'm still abble the build something ^^

- My Raffale C - Shark III (2018)

- My Mini Shark (Probe)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=126uwF2w5Qks-noe7AQhiNfr5RlUoPzHS

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PSa20dfm4XbT6uW0OLVyWfhMb6YKe_mi

- Raffale https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bZ0OO1dWiIxdCzEPQjLkY974kxlwPN2E

- Mini Shark https://drive.google.com/open?id=18kWlNb9Sj2ZROB3SfVSKhQQTW_jqGMKC

& tell me if i do something wrong !

Could you try uploading to KerbalX? I don't have access to KSP until Friday, but I can read off a few quick stats from KerbalX off my phone to give me a general sense of the airplanes performance. 

[Eidahlil]

13 hours ago, ZLM-Master said:

<..>

& tell me if i do something wrong !

5 hours ago, exbyde said:

Welcome, ZLM! There's no close on submissions, I've just been busy. Though i would definitely recommend having some of the other guys look at your design, @Eidahlil, @Earthlinger, or the dundun bros @dundun92 @dundun93 would be good folks to talk to

Sure, the Rafale looks quite good, but you can probably make it pretty good:

1. Needs proper ECM tech - add some batteries, I'd recommend at least 2K of electric charge. And add "activate ECM" to the gear action group for all the ECM. Also maybe add another ECM for a total of 3.
2. A bit sluggish on pitch - the center of lift should move forward a bit.
3. A bit overenthusiastic on roll. Maybe disable roll on the middle elevons and tail, and set all the elevons back to 100 authority limit (not the canards though)? And while you're at it, increase steer damping to 6?
4. It only has 2.2 engines - 200 fuel should be plenty and save a ton of mass.
5. What's up with the 5 second drop time on the Sidewinder? It's supposed to be a missile, not a bomb.
6. AI tweaks - reducing max speed to ~290 would make it a lot more resistant to the initial sidewinder volley. If 2. and 3. get fixed, the minimum altitude can decrease to 300-400. And I have no idea why it has any amount of Pitch KI.
7. FYI I did not test the head in detail.

So something like this: https://kerbalx.com/juzeris/Dassault-Rafale-C-CE-Shark-III-Type-E.craft

Speaking of which, @exbyde, I think the Pachycephalosaurus deserves a honorable mention. "Hydra" maybe? Or "Nietzsche poster plane" ("that which does not kill me, makes me stronger")?

The Mini Shark is already pretty good. It can probably benefit from pretty much all of the comments for Rafale, but they are a lot more optional here. An ECM will increase mass by 10%, which is not insignificant, though I've found that it is very vulnerable to AMRAAMs (which lock at 3km out).

Edited February 7, 2018 by Eidahlil

[ZLM-Master]

@Eidahlil

Yep ! You have made a fine analistic of my plane & you are right on a lot of points ^^

For my defend  yep not played till 2015 & forget a lot of think ( KSP isn't a easy game ! )

- Don't know why but i figure ECM was auto-Pasiv & not Action group ( thx i correct this )

- Most of dogfight is around 2 to 3 min max , so 50 U electrcal pod never be a issue by the past ( i will check , maybe different from ksp 1.0.2 )

- Agree with the roll , bit to responsiv !

- 300 l fuel is in care of longer dogfight than usual ( 5 min ) Or if plane heavy damaged or lost some fuel tank ! 200 l is enouth in the most case .

- the 5s Drop missile is from a old BDA version where your own missile strike your plane ( suicide ) Seems clear now .

- I like fliyng fast , that way evade maneuvre is more efficient . I keep only one missile till they are totally useless in this BDA version ( Just my PoV  but one counterpod , can deflect 20 missiles in a row , by the past , 3 counterpod got difficult to deflect only 3 missiles )

- I already having bad crash by setting a too low altitude , especialy if fighter close to mountain ! ( Safty alitude )

- Pitch KI is a new setting for me , don't really know what he do ^^ i try min & max and ..... and ..... 

Yep & i managed to switch craft on KerbalX when i got a moment , i need to tunes them a bit . Thx for your analistic , it's alwas good to remember the basic especialy when not played from long time !

& sorry , my english is very crappy ^^ Oh & yes i going to try your Type E

[GillyMonster]

1 hour ago, Eidahlil said:

Sure, the Rafale looks quite good, but you can probably make it pretty good:

1. Needs proper ECM tech - add some batteries, I'd recommend at least 2K of electric charge. And add "activate ECM" to the gear action group for all the ECM. Also maybe add another ECM for a total of 3.
2. A bit sluggish on pitch - the center of lift should move forward a bit.
3. A bit overenthusiastic on roll. Maybe disable roll on the middle elevons and tail, and set all the elevons back to 100 authority limit (not the canards though)? And while you're at it, increase steer damping to 6?
4. It only has 2.2 engines - 200 fuel should be plenty and save a ton of mass.
5. What's up with the 5 second drop time on the Sidewinder? It's supposed to be a missile, not a bomb.
6. AI tweaks - reducing max speed to ~290 would make it a lot more resistant to the initial sidewinder volley. If 2. and 3. get fixed, the minimum altitude can decrease to 300-400. And I have no idea why it has any amount of Pitch KI.
7. FYI I did not test the head in detail.

So something like this: https://kerbalx.com/juzeris/Dassault-Rafale-C-CE-Shark-III-Type-E.craft

Speaking of which, @exbyde, I think the Pachycephalosaurus deserves a honorable mention. "Hydra" maybe? Or "Nietzsche poster plane" ("that which does not kill me, makes me stronger")?

The Mini Shark is already pretty good. It can probably benefit from pretty much all of the comments for Rafale, but they are a lot more optional here. An ECM will increase mass by 10%, which is not insignificant, though I've found that it is very vulnerable to AMRAAMs (which lock at 3km out).

ECM is allowed on here?

[exbyde]

6 hours ago, Eidahlil said:

Speaking of which, @exbyde, I think the Pachycephalosaurus deserves a honorable mention. "Hydra" maybe? Or "Nietzsche poster plane" ("that which does not kill me, makes me stronger")?

Phoenix perhaps?

4 hours ago, GillyMonster said:

ECM is allowed on here?

Read rules. Yes, but any form of radar jammer from outside of BDA is forbidden atm (there is a mod with something called ru plasma that makes aircraft not show up on radar at all)

Edited February 8, 2018 by exbyde

[GillyMonster]

1 hour ago, exbyde said:

Phoenix perhaps?

Read rules. Yes, but any form of radar jammer from outside of BDA is forbidden atm (there is a mod with something called ru plasma that makes aircraft not show up on radar at all)

Oh ok.  I thought something like that would be considered somewhat unfair but then again everyone can equip it I guess.

[goduranus]

There's YouTuber making a dogfight series, let's get some planes sent in!

 

Rules are slightly different from this thread, 

He's taking 2 planes per person. I've already sent in my F-18 and the Rabid Squirrel.

[HeroBrian_333]

2 minutes ago, goduranus said:

There's YouTuber making a dogfight series, let's get some planes sent in!

 

Rules are slightly different from this thread, 

He's taking 2 planes per person. I've already sent in my F-18 and the Rabid Squirrel.

Seen it, and please don't advertise other posts or challenges here.

[GillyMonster]

Sorry, my loyalty is to my first love.  I'm not participating in any other dogfight challenges save this one.

[goduranus]

1 hour ago, HeroBrian_333 said:

Seen it, and please don't advertise other posts or challenges here.

Hmm? Didn't know that was a thing, but okay if you say so.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, goduranus said:

There's YouTuber making a dogfight series, let's get some planes sent in!

-snip-

He's taking 2 planes per person. I've already sent in my F-18 and the Rabid Squirrel.

I already entered my IV-15.

[Vanamonde]

Some posts have been removed from this thread. Please keep the discussions on-topic. 

[Steven Kerman]

With the making history expansion coming out soon including the mission editor, it would be cool if there was the ability to stage dogfights against waves of enemies

[l0kki]

When is OP gonna deliver the tests?

[Piatzin]

1 hour ago, l0kki said:

When is OP gonna deliver the tests?

When he can

[Guest]

7 hours ago, l0kki said:

When is OP gonna deliver the tests?

24 hrs, right @exbyde?

[goduranus]

He could be busy or sth. If you're in a hurry it's pretty easy to upload your own dogfight videos. 

[exbyde]

9 hours ago, l0kki said:

When is OP gonna deliver the tests?

when hell freezes over donitsi

8 hours ago, Earthlinger said:

When he can

gracias

2 hours ago, dundun92 said:

24 hrs, right @exbyde?

i'll set my own schedule, thanks

2 minutes ago, goduranus said:

He could be busy or sth. If you're in a hurry it's pretty easy to upload your own dogfight videos. 

This. 

Lets do this

 

 

 

In a surprisingly touch challenge, the Du-1b put the clamps on the clamps. @Eidahlil's newly detuned creation cannot deal with the multi-winged DU-1b.

Berzerker 2.0was surprisingly more one-sided, as @Earthlinger's creations a whoopin at the hands of the Du-1b

Well, for all the possibilities @dundun92's creation had, @goduranus Rabid Squirrels made Du-1bris of the Du-1b, retaining its spot at #2 after adjusting for the Pike's withdrawal, and sitting the Du-1b at a nice, comfy #3. The only words i have to describe these rabid little buggers are steely-eyed missile men, really exploiting their missiles in battle 2.

[exbyde]

Alrighty, next up we have the F-99, @silversliver's creation. This kind of looks like someone got confused halfway on the drawing board and had to ask "wait, are we building a missile or a fighter" and the answer was 

Up first against @Earthlinger's Berzerker 2.0...

It does way better than i anticipated, wiping out the Berzerkers with precision gunfire. But will @Eidahlil's Pike Clamped get the same treatment?

no, it gets the opposite, routed by the Pike's AIM-9, the F-99 gets destroyed by the Pikes, securing it a nice, temporary home in the #5 spot. Welcome to the roster, silver

[exbyde]

Next up, we have @Steve Kerman's Trigger, what appears to be a pretty faithful recreation of a late model SU-27 variant. Unlike most of the scale only aircraft that show up here, this guy does have some bite, as @silversliver's F-99 got to experience

However, going up against @Eidahlil Pike is a bit of a different story. Where the Trigger excels with missiles against the F-99, the Pike forces the Trigger to use its guns, which like most stock-alike aircraft, are realistically weak with a single cannon. But it is enough to secure a #5 spot on the board.

And thanks to the gauntlet of mods that will need to be installed to get the next couple aircraft running, this is where i'll be calling it a night. Until next time

[Piatzin]

1 hour ago, exbyde said:

Berzerker 2.0was surprisingly more one-sided, as @Earthlinger's creations a whoopin at the hands of the Du-1b

Ow...

[exbyde]

9 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

Ow...

Nothing lasts forever on here. Perhaps berzerker 3.0 will stick around a little longer?

[GillyMonster]

That's got me excited to see how my entry fared.  And AC/DC in the background was epic!

2 hours ago, exbyde said:

And thanks to the gauntlet of mods that will need to be installed to get the next couple aircraft running, this is where i'll be calling it a night. Until next time

Something that might help, is keeping unused mods in a separate folder when you don't need them.  I've got probably around 30 Mods on my computer, I just click and drag them in and out depending on which ones I want/need.

[Piatzin]

2 hours ago, exbyde said:

Nothing lasts forever on here. Perhaps berzerker 3.0 will stick around a little longer?

Hm, no...

I'm happy with the Berzerker as it is. There's a new plane in the works (the Ripsaw, but it's been in the works for some time now lol) and I'll eventually submit that one.

Someday

[Dimas152]

the entire thread more like "Fighter Missile Competition"