stupid_chris

[1.7] RealChute Parachute Systems v1.4.7.4 | 13/04/19

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, mostlydave said:

The first post in this thread mentions the license changing if he is not on the forum for 90 days, so I think it's probably going to have to wait until thin unless someone can come up with a MM patch

It's going to take more than a Module Manager patch to get this working with KSP 1.4.x

Edit: I'm still on as a contributor for the repository, I just sort of stopped as its maintainer as @stupid_chris had returned so I'll see if I can push a compatibility update to it. I'm not sure when I can get to that though and ATM I'm not even able to compile the code. Apparently there were some relatively recent code changes in there that Monodevelop isn't able to handle; they SHOULD compile but just aren't even in MSBuild mode

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Starwaster I'm a PHP/SQL/JS dev and a bit of Java as well. I tried to put my nose into C# but my time as a C developer is far beyond me and never did put the nose into Unity enough to be able to look at this. Thank you for doing so.

Anyway it is still early since the release of the latest patch 1.4.1 and the DLC release so I think it'll take a bit of time before I get back my Near Future things, as well as SSTU and Infernal Robotics as I used in the past :wink: The time for me to play almost vanilla mode and do a campaign again :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How is the parachute mass calculated? My chute masses don't seem realistic.

I am using RealChute, FAR, and Realism Overhaul, and attempting to make an Orion-like spacecraft. According to various NASA articles, each of the Orion's three main parachutes weighs about 300 lb (136 kg), is 116 ft (35 m) in diameter, and slows the approximately 9 ton capsule down to around 20 mph (9 m/s). However, testing with a 35m diameter nylon RealChute, using the Radial RealChute at the default size, with an approximately 3 ton spacecraft, the part mass was approximately 0.43 tons. Its performance was close to reality, reducing the craft to 7 m/s at sea level.

Additional testing using a 3m conical RealChute with a 71m diameter (equivalent area to the three parachutes on the space shuttle SRBs) and a landing mass of 90 t (equivalent to the descent mass of an SRB) resulted in a total chute mass of 0.512 t, of which 0.288 t was the case - this is compared to the SRB main parachutes weighing 3 tons in total. Again, the parachute's performance was realistic, with an impact speed of 20 m/s, but the mass was far different from reality.

Is there a way of fixing this to get parachute masses comparable with real spacecraft?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Armchair Rocket Scientist said:

How is the parachute mass calculated? My chute masses don't seem realistic.

I am using RealChute, FAR, and Realism Overhaul, and attempting to make an Orion-like spacecraft. According to various NASA articles, each of the Orion's three main parachutes weighs about 300 lb (136 kg), is 116 ft (35 m) in diameter, and slows the approximately 9 ton capsule down to around 20 mph (9 m/s). However, testing with a 35m diameter nylon RealChute, using the Radial RealChute at the default size, with an approximately 3 ton spacecraft, the part mass was approximately 0.43 tons. Its performance was close to reality, reducing the craft to 7 m/s at sea level.

Additional testing using a 3m conical RealChute with a 71m diameter (equivalent area to the three parachutes on the space shuttle SRBs) and a landing mass of 90 t (equivalent to the descent mass of an SRB) resulted in a total chute mass of 0.512 t, of which 0.288 t was the case - this is compared to the SRB main parachutes weighing 3 tons in total. Again, the parachute's performance was realistic, with an impact speed of 20 m/s, but the mass was far different from reality.

Is there a way of fixing this to get parachute masses comparable with real spacecraft?

I don't think this has ever come up before.. I would have to say that part of the problem is that RealChute is only calculating chute mass based on areal density of the canopy but IRL it's more complicated than that.

There's factors that RC just isn't taking into account. For example, those Orion chutes you cited? The chutes themselves don't really mass 136 kg. The figures you saw are factoring in line mass, disreefing mechanisms, cutting mechanism. Maybe even the mortars? Or not, dunno.

Those SRB chutes? Three tons? There's no way the canopies themselves weighed that much; they probably required reinforced lines to handle the load and there may be other chute related equipment mass in there...

As to fixing it, you could edit the materials (preferably via Module Manager patch) and change the areaDensity of each material.

However, I guarantee that no matter what you set it to that it will never match every possible real world example because (again) RC is only calculating based on the actual canopy area whereas and none of the other factors mentioned. So I don't think just editing the area density is going to do it for you. You could use that to get it into the right ballpark for one target craft but everything under or over that would be end up off :( 

If you think it's important (and it probably is) then you could create an issue on the Github repository. Maybe even contribute improved code to calculate the chute mass. But I have a feeling that it would probably have to wait until stupid_chris can get around to finishing Real Chute 2.

Edited by Starwaster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Starwaster said:

I don't think this has ever come up before.. I would have to say that part of the problem is that RealChute is only calculating chute mass based on areal density of the canopy but IRL it's more complicated than that.

There's factors that RC just isn't taking into account. For example, those Orion chutes you cited? The chutes themselves don't really mass 136 kg. The figures you saw are factoring in line mass, disreefing mechanisms, cutting mechanism. Maybe even the mortars? Or not, dunno.

Those SRB chutes? Three tons? There's no way the canopies themselves weighed that much; they probably required reinforced lines to handle the load and there may be other chute related equipment mass in there...

 

I would add that each vendor may (and do) measure the "Parachute" mass as varied as the Chutes themselves for some all the way to the Structural re-enforcement required to use the chutes for others.   You can't just take a published figure for an entire recovery system and say it is that of the parachute.  Likewise you can never NEVER assume that published documents are correct in their description.     Many "Science-y" documents are downgraded when handed to the press to "avoid confusion"  AKA to make us work harder to get the data we really want :(  

So @Armchair Rocket Scientist  I wouldn't worry about the mass as has been described in your source..   Unless you have specific data of the mass of the actual material (please note I do not mean the apparatus like you were quoting above, rather the canopy and riser material mass) used it is pointless. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/18/2018 at 12:12 PM, FrancoisH said:

The real question is:  is @stupid_chris still playing or around here? As his last post is a month ago, I do know people interest in this game can shift.

And if he's not actively developing it, maybe, with proper authorisation, someone could fork the project somewhere? As it was a nice add-on. I'm not really versed in Unity/KSP Mod development but I really like this one, and I'm probably not the only one...  I liked Deadly Reentry as well.

I hope for an update :wink:

Yes I am.

@Starwaster and/or @NathanKell are the only people I will trust RealChute with other than me. But as you may notice, we are all busy people, and I can't constantly keep up with everything.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'm pursuing a CompSci degree in order to get a career in video game dev. I have full time university, that I pay for myself (it's a few $k per year, and I don't get access to loans), a car, an apartment, and a full time job to make ends meet. So right now, no, I do not have much time. I was not in university when I started this, and had a lot more time to afford for mods. That doesn't mean I've abandoned this, and very far from it. I have plans to rewrite this whole thing from the ground up this summer if I can find the free time to, because I've grown a lot as a programmer since I've started writing this. We'll see how that  goes. I'm fresh out of midterms and just spent the past week non-stop working on an OpenGL (hell) assignment. Go take a look at my Github, you'll see that I still do this kind of stuff all the time. I'll see if I don't have an evening to fix whatever is wrong right now. In the meanwhile, I'll just remind everyone:

~~~ LESS COMPLAINING, MORE LOGS ~~~

This has been a PSA :) 

On 3/18/2018 at 6:37 PM, Armchair Rocket Scientist said:

How is the parachute mass calculated? My chute masses don't seem realistic.

I am using RealChute, FAR, and Realism Overhaul, and attempting to make an Orion-like spacecraft. According to various NASA articles, each of the Orion's three main parachutes weighs about 300 lb (136 kg), is 116 ft (35 m) in diameter, and slows the approximately 9 ton capsule down to around 20 mph (9 m/s). However, testing with a 35m diameter nylon RealChute, using the Radial RealChute at the default size, with an approximately 3 ton spacecraft, the part mass was approximately 0.43 tons. Its performance was close to reality, reducing the craft to 7 m/s at sea level.

Additional testing using a 3m conical RealChute with a 71m diameter (equivalent area to the three parachutes on the space shuttle SRBs) and a landing mass of 90 t (equivalent to the descent mass of an SRB) resulted in a total chute mass of 0.512 t, of which 0.288 t was the case - this is compared to the SRB main parachutes weighing 3 tons in total. Again, the parachute's performance was realistic, with an impact speed of 20 m/s, but the mass was far different from reality.

Is there a way of fixing this to get parachute masses comparable with real spacecraft?

The mass you are seeing is the mass of the canopy itself. Trust me, the SRB canopies did not weigh three tons. The whole assembly did. The actual parachute case accounts for the rest of this mass, and while it is not *three tons*, it is in line with the masses in KSP in general. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/19/2018 at 4:03 AM, FrancoisH said:

@Starwaster I'm a PHP/SQL/JS dev and a bit of Java as well. I tried to put my nose into C# but my time as a C developer is far beyond me and never did put the nose into Unity enough to be able to look at this. Thank you for doing so.

Anyway it is still early since the release of the latest patch 1.4.1 and the DLC release so I think it'll take a bit of time before I get back my Near Future things, as well as SSTU and Infernal Robotics as I used in the past :wink: The time for me to play almost vanilla mode and do a campaign again :wink:

Or move on to other activities. What I do while the waiting game occurs. Usually worth the wait.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, stupid_chris said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'm pursuing a CompSci degree in order to get a career in video game dev. I have full time university, that I pay for myself (it's a few $k per year, and I don't get access to loans), a car, an apartment, and a full time job to make ends meet. So right now, no, I do not have much time.

You have got my full respect there @stupid_chris! Twenty years on and people look at me weird when they discover I have a fork lift operator's license and a Doctorate. Why? they want to know. Not all of us are handed the soft path through our education. When it comes to paying your own way through University "There is nothing like a Crown for pickin' it up and puttin' it down".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, here it is, compatibility update. Compiled against the KSP 1.4.1 library but runs on 1.4.0 as well. (assuming that for some bizarre reason anyone hasn't updated from one to the other...) 

And now onto Deadly Reentry and Real Fuels....

Real Chute version 1.4.6

  • Recompiled for KSP 1.4.1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

Ok, here it is, compatibility update. Compiled against the KSP 1.4.1 library but runs on 1.4.0 as well. (assuming that for some bizarre reason anyone hasn't updated from one to the other...) 

And now onto Deadly Reentry and Real Fuels....

Real Chute version 1.4.6

  • Recompiled for KSP 1.4.1

@Starwaster, if I could, I would reach through this monitor and hug you. :cool:

Edited by Capt. Hunt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Starwaster said:

Ok, here it is, compatibility update. Compiled against the KSP 1.4.1 library but runs on 1.4.0 as well. (assuming that for some bizarre reason anyone hasn't updated from one to the other...) 

And now onto Deadly Reentry and Real Fuels....

Real Chute version 1.4.6

  • Recompiled for KSP 1.4.1

Thank you so much :)

By the way your link to Deadly Reentry in your signature is dead :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@starwaster is there a download link available

4 hours ago, Starwaster said:

Ok, here it is, compatibility update. Compiled against the KSP 1.4.1 library but runs on 1.4.0 as well. (assuming that for some bizarre reason anyone hasn't updated from one to the other...) 

And now onto Deadly Reentry and Real Fuels....

Real Chute version 1.4.6

  • Recompiled for KSP 1.4.1

EDIT: https://github.com/StupidChris/RealChute/releases/tag/v1.4.6

Edited by Amhran
found what I was looking for

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Amhran said:

@starwaster is there a download link available

 

Github link in the OP as usual

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I don't think this has ever come up before.. I would have to say that part of the problem is that RealChute is only calculating chute mass based on areal density of the canopy but IRL it's more complicated than that.

There's factors that RC just isn't taking into account. For example, those Orion chutes you cited? The chutes themselves don't really mass 136 kg. The figures you saw are factoring in line mass, disreefing mechanisms, cutting mechanism. Maybe even the mortars? Or not, dunno.

Those SRB chutes? Three tons? There's no way the canopies themselves weighed that much; they probably required reinforced lines to handle the load and there may be other chute related equipment mass in there...

As to fixing it, you could edit the materials (preferably via Module Manager patch) and change the areaDensity of each material.

However, I guarantee that no matter what you set it to that it will never match every possible real world example because (again) RC is only calculating based on the actual canopy area whereas and none of the other factors mentioned. So I don't think just editing the area density is going to do it for you. You could use that to get it into the right ballpark for one target craft but everything under or over that would be end up off :( 

If you think it's important (and it probably is) then you could create an issue on the Github repository. Maybe even contribute improved code to calculate the chute mass. But I have a feeling that it would probably have to wait until stupid_chris can get around to finishing Real Chute 2.

This all makes sense - I figured the mass of associated equipment would be approximated by the case mass and/or the density used for the part.

However, the results I'm getting don't seem consistent with it just using the area density and canopy area. As an experiment, I edited ParachuteMaterials.cfg to reduce the area density of all materials by a factor of 100, then made a RealChute with an extremely small size, and a ridiculously small parachute with a 3 meter diameter. The parachute mass should be negligible - which was confirmed by the part mass hardly changing at all with changing chute diameter, and the case mass is only 3 kg. However, the total part mass is still about 0.303 tons. Do you have any idea where this extra mass could be coming from?

Screenshot showing the anomalous part mass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Armchair Rocket Scientist said:

However, the total part mass is still about 0.303 tons. Do you have any idea where this extra mass could be coming from?

Have you looked into the various masses listed in the part config itself?  For instance, the stackable parachute (GameData/RealChute/Parts/stack_chute.cfg) has a mass = 0.1 (the stock part's mass entry) plus a caseMass in the RealChuteModule of 0.1, with the SIZE entries in ProceduralChute each listing caseMass values.  I didn't look through the RealChute code to see how all of those masses interact (for instance, does ProceduralChute caseMass override RealChuteModule caseMass, or are they additive? Does that value add to the stock part's mass, or does it modify it?).  But it should be fairly easy to figure it out with some tweaks to those fields.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Tai said:

Manual reinstallation did not help. Link "the bug reporting format" does not work and Idk where to get LOG.

P.S. Excuse me for my English.

Your English is fine.  The link you posted doesn't work though.

You should provide a better a description of what's not working for you.  I'm guessing from the screen shots that you're not seeing the parachutes in the VAB.  Before you reinstalled Real Chutes, did you remove the RealChute directory from your KSP/GameData?

To provide your logs, read and follow this post: How To Get Support (READ FIRST) - Technical Support (PC, modded installs) - Kerbal Space Program Forums.

Edited by Brigadier

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Brigadier said:

Your English is fine.  The link you posted doesn't work though.

That's what he was trying to get across: the link posted is from the OP and it used to be a valid until some relatively recent forum update broke it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Armchair Rocket Scientist said:

This all makes sense - I figured the mass of associated equipment would be approximated by the case mass and/or the density used for the part.

However, the results I'm getting don't seem consistent with it just using the area density and canopy area. As an experiment, I edited ParachuteMaterials.cfg to reduce the area density of all materials by a factor of 100, then made a RealChute with an extremely small size, and a ridiculously small parachute with a 3 meter diameter. The parachute mass should be negligible - which was confirmed by the part mass hardly changing at all with changing chute diameter, and the case mass is only 3 kg. However, the total part mass is still about 0.303 tons. Do you have any idea where this extra mass could be coming from?

Screenshot showing the anomalous part mass.

It sounds like a UI issue, and I certainly don't have time to tamper with this. Take a look what other tools tell you the actual part mass is. Other than that, please, again, logs, and proper debugging information.

15 hours ago, MOARdV said:

Have you looked into the various masses listed in the part config itself?  For instance, the stackable parachute (GameData/RealChute/Parts/stack_chute.cfg) has a mass = 0.1 (the stock part's mass entry) plus a caseMass in the RealChuteModule of 0.1, with the SIZE entries in ProceduralChute each listing caseMass values.  I didn't look through the RealChute code to see how all of those masses interact (for instance, does ProceduralChute caseMass override RealChuteModule caseMass, or are they additive? Does that value add to the stock part's mass, or does it modify it?).  But it should be fairly easy to figure it out with some tweaks to those fields.

The mass from the part config/RealChuteModule is used when there is no ProceduralChute module. The mass from the appropriate ProceduralChute instance for caseMass overrides it completely otherwise.

2 hours ago, Starwaster said:

That's what he was trying to get across: the link posted is from the OP and it used to be a valid until some relatively recent forum update broke it.

Just fixed it :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Brigadier Yes, VAB does not show parachutes.Yes i remove the RealChute directory from KSP/GameData. Before i reinstalled the Real Chutes i remove all mods (about 30), because I thought that there were too many of them and the RealChute would fit in with one of them. (google translate sry ^^). Then i reinstaled only the RealChute & MM, but VAB still does not show parachutes. Then i reinstalled the KSP completely and then installed only MM and RealChutes, but still have this problem =/

LOG http://dropmefiles.com/hcSC7 (clear KSP + RC& MM)

Win7x64   KSP 1.4.1.2089

Edited by Tai

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Tai said:

@Brigadier Yes, VAB does not show parachutes.Yes i remove the RealChute directory from KSP/GameData. Before i reinstalled the Real Chutes i remove all mods (about 30), because I thought that there were too many of them and the RealChute would fit in with one of them. (google translate sry ^^). Then i reinstaled only the RealChute & MM, but VAB still does not show parachutes. Then i reinstalled the KSP completely and then installed only MM and RealChutes, but still have this problem =/

LOG http://dropmefiles.com/hcSC7 (clear KSP + RC& MM)

Win7x64   KSP 1.4.1.2089

The bug reporting format link is fixed. I really just need logs.

Thought that was a download for the whole install, whoops.

EDIT:

Exception handling event onGUIEditorToolbarReady in class RCToolbarManager:System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at KSP.UI.Screens.PartCategorizer.AddCustomSubcategoryFilter (KSP.UI.Screens.Category mainFilter, System.String subFilterName, System.String subFilterdisplayName, RUI.Icons.Selectable.Icon icon, System.Func`2 exclusionFilter) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RealChute.RCToolbarManager.AddFilter () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at EventVoid.Fire () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at KSP.UI.Screens.PartCategorizer.AddCustomSubcategoryFilter (KSP.UI.Screens.Category mainFilter, System.String subFilterName, System.String subFilterdisplayName, RUI.Icons.Selectable.Icon icon, System.Func`2 exclusionFilter) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RealChute.RCToolbarManager.AddFilter () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at EventVoid.Fire () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:Internal_LogException(Exception, Object)
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
UnityEngine.Logger:LogException(Exception, Object)
UnityEngine.Debug:LogException(Exception)
EventVoid:Fire()
KSP.UI.Screens.<SetInitialState>c__Iterator1:MoveNext()
UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine:InvokeMoveNext(IEnumerator, IntPtr)
UnityEngine.MonoBehaviour:StartCoroutine_Auto_Internal(IEnumerator)
UnityEngine.MonoBehaviour:StartCoroutine(IEnumerator)
KSP.UI.Screens.PartCategorizer:Setup()
EventVoid:Fire()
KSP.UI.Screens.EditorPanels:ShowPartsList(Action)
EditorLogic:SelectPanelParts(Boolean)
EditorLogic:StartEditor(Boolean)
<Start>c__Iterator0:MoveNext()
UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine:InvokeMoveNext(IEnumerator, IntPtr)

Look at that, Squad messed with the Editor Toolbar, again. Goddamnit.

Edited by stupid_chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Tai said:

@stupid_chris Can i somehow fix this manually or just wait for the patch?

It LOOKS like a localization issue to me.

You could try running in English language mode. That should bring the icon back.

Alternatively, as a workaround, use the filter options to filter by module.  Next to the search bar click the arrow and then select Filter By Module. (or for you it will say Фильтр по модулю)

The top two modules should say Procedural Chute and RealChute. Either one will contain the chutes using RC's modules.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

It LOOKS like a localization issue to me.

You could try running in English language mode. That should bring the icon back.

Alternatively, as a workaround, use the filter options to filter by module.  Next to the search bar click the arrow and then select Filter By Module. (or for you it will say Фильтр по модулю)

The top two modules should say Procedural Chute and RealChute. Either one will contain the chutes using RC's modules.

Hmm...  The previous version worked fine on the same localization, but thanks for the advice, I'll try.

UPD: Yes. It worked. Сhange of localization helped.  

UPD#2 "Filter By Module" works with my localization and i can use RealChute parachutes. @Starwaster tnx

Edited by Tai

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.