[1.1.3] Surface Experiment Pack - EVA science for KIS/KAS (v1.4.2 6/30/2016) *Now with less explosions*

[SyberSmoke]

19 hours ago, blu3wolf said:

My thoughts.... I think it might be worth reading the backscroll XD

Shame for me it is not that easy.  I have three kids I take care of and frankly, just not enough time to go rummaging through a 31 page thread.

[CobaltWolf]

4 minutes ago, SyberSmoke said:

Shame for me it is not that easy.  I have three kids I take care of and frankly, just not enough time to go rummaging through a 31 page thread.

It was on the previous page, but I digress:

On 8/1/2016 at 0:34 AM, CobaltWolf said:

edit: Also, this is sufficiently far enough along that I feel ok teasing this.

There is a very major overhaul to SEP on the way, thanks to a new contributor that I think many of y'all are familiar with. It doesn't add any new parts (those that follow my other work know why things are slow here at the moment) but it will comprehensively expand and flesh out everything that happens AFTER you've used an engineer to set up a SEP. I loathe to give any sort of time estimate (especially as I'm already working under at least one that I likely won't meet) but we hope to get a test build SOONtm.

Additionally, I'd like to reiterate my plans to make a major expansion to SEP - including, among other things, a lunar rover - once the BDB LEM is released.

First screenshots of the new scientist framework in action. After setting up the SEP, each instrument has to be calibrated by a scientist, with the level being determined by their scientist level. The experiments then take time to run, with a variable amount of time for each experiment. The experiments are run from the central station. This is sort of 'phase 1' of the overhaul. More systems will hopefully be layered on top of this - having more unique conditions for each experiment, having more involvement in the data collection process, etc.

Note that this is not getting programmed by me, but by a well-known forum member.

[cyberpunkdreams]

Looks like awesome work! I'm really looking forward to trying it.

Have you also considered a battery level indicator for the central station? It might be useful.

[goldenpsp]

 

nevermind

Edited August 6, 2016 by goldenpsp

[DMagic]

The idea with the redesign is to give scientists a greater role in setting up the experiments and to make them more of a long-term project, rather than click and be done.

Experiments will take place over time, but will work differently from science labs. Rather than a slow trickle of one or two science points per day, science will be generated in discrete amounts. So once 50% of the data has been collected a science result for the basic version of that experiment will be generated, this will be worth 50% of the max science and can be transmitted or returned like any other science data. You can then wait until 75% for the next data set, and 100% for the final data set. But it isn't necessary to collect all three, you can just let it run until it reaches 100%, collect the final data set, and return that, you will gain the same amount of science points either way.

The level of the scientist setting up each experiment and the complexity of the experiment will determine both the rate that science is generated, and the maximum amount that can be generated. So an experiment setup by a low level scientist might not be able to generate the max amount of science, it could stop at 50% or 75%. You could revisit the experiment with a higher level scientist, or just move on to other areas.

Once a few final issues have been addressed and some initial balancing has been done the first phase should be ready.

The second phase will work on better ways to control active experiments and communicate their status to users (right-click menus can only get you so far ).

The third phase will focus on adding unique feature to some experiments, allowing more than just the scientist level to affect data collection. Experiments could be calibrated by, say, crashing a probe into the surface for the seismometer, or drilling into the ground with a hot drill bit for the interior heat probe, and so on.

[CobaltWolf]

1 hour ago, DMagic said:

~snip~

That's the stuff right there.

[SyberSmoke]

On 8/5/2016 at 9:26 PM, CobaltWolf said:

<snip>

Looks good.  May I just suggest that the latest and greatest plans for the mod be on the OP?  I man just so that silliness (like my own) could be mitigated some.  Heck could be a hidden post much like the change log, but with "Things for the Near Future" or something.  Keep it up by the way.

Edited August 11, 2016 by SyberSmoke

[RobertJPowell]

This was already a great mod - I like the direction this is going in. When you couple this with KIS/KAS compatible colony mods, it makes sense that the experiments might require a high level scientist to get the most out of them. (And also adds nice fluff for someone like me who will test things on Kerbin before sending them out in the field )

[Ruedii]

On 8/5/2016 at 4:53 AM, blu3wolf said:

My thoughts.... I think it might be worth reading the backscroll XD

Yes, there is a desire to add longer term experiments, but it would require coding substantial additions to the DLL module.  If you know a modder who is able and willing to do to that, feel free.

This mod uses DMagic Science module and it's own small module.   Preferably the long-term experiment function should be added to the upstream DMagic module because several science mods use it, and most of them want the feature.

[DStaal]

10 hours ago, Ruedii said:

Yes, there is a desire to add longer term experiments, but it would require coding substantial additions to the DLL module.  If you know a modder who is able and willing to do to that, feel free.

This mod uses DMagic Science module and it's own small module.   Preferably the long-term experiment function should be added to the upstream DMagic module because several science mods use it, and most of them want the feature.

Um, DMagic was the one who chimed in with the details on the  plans for longer term experiments.  I assume he's qualified to make the additions to his own DLL...

[CobaltWolf]

2 hours ago, DStaal said:

Um, DMagic was the one who chimed in with the details on the  plans for longer term experiments.  I assume he's qualified to make the additions to his own DLL...

It's actually a bespoke plugin, specific to SEP. We (read: he) should have a preview build of Phase 1 SOONtm.

[DStaal]

2 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

It's actually a bespoke plugin, specific to SEP. We (read: he) should have a preview build of Phase 1 SOONtm.

Ok.  BTW: Would you guys mind if I made some extra experiments using this pack for MOLE's long term science system?  (This would be an interesting set to combine with them - it'd be a difficult mission to set up.)

[CobaltWolf]

1 minute ago, DStaal said:

Ok.  BTW: Would you guys mind if I made some extra experiments using this pack for MOLE's long term science system?  (This would be an interesting set to combine with them - it'd be a difficult mission to set up.)

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you want to create new models to create a modmod (though I think we are already deeper than that), repurpose existing ones, or..? Pretty much anything is fine, and I'm more than willing to answer questions when I can find time.

[DStaal]

5 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you want to create new models to create a modmod (though I think we are already deeper than that), repurpose existing ones, or..? Pretty much anything is fine, and I'm more than willing to answer questions when I can find time.

Nothing like that - and it really doesn't affect you here, but since the discussion on long-term science was happening I thought I could ask, to be polite.

MOLE has a science system where you send an experiment up - not a part, just an abstract set of instructions/materials for the experiment in a special container - run it, and then return it to Kerbin for science.  Running it takes time and scientists, and different experiments can require you have different parts attached to your ship, or that you have resources available, etc.  Creating these experiments is just writing a config file that describes them.

So all I'm planning on doing is writing some experiment setups & results that require the player to have some of the SEP pack attached to their ship.  (Which is where the difficulty in setting it up comes in - you need to have set it up and figured out a way to attach it to your ship.)

As an example, one I'm thinking on would have you setup a retroreflector and monitor it for a while - measuring the change in distance to Kerbin.  You set it up, get the monitoring going with your scientists in the MOLE, and then after a while you get a result set you can ship back to Kerbin.  (Not transmit: You need to send the same instructions/materials pack you sent out back.)

[Kiro]

So I set a few of the surface experiments on Minimus and everything worked fine. Then I came back with a few more experiments and power splitters, but it seems like all the plug nodes on the original setup are no longer showing up as valid nodes. Is this a possible known issue or would you like to see some screen shots and log output?

 

[DiceCaller]

4 minutes ago, Kiro said:

So I set a few of the surface experiments on Minimus and everything worked fine. Then I came back with a few more experiments and power splitters, but it seems like all the plug nodes on the original setup are no longer showing up as valid nodes. Is this a possible known issue or would you like to see some screen shots and log output?

 

I had this happen once with an earlier version.  I quit the game then went back and everything worked after that. Hope it helps.

[Kiro]

5 minutes ago, DiceCaller said:

I had this happen once with an earlier version.  I quit the game then went back and everything worked after that. Hope it helps.

I've reloaded a few times at this point. I'm looking for conflicting mods now.

[CobaltWolf]

5 hours ago, Kiro said:

I've reloaded a few times at this point. I'm looking for conflicting mods now.

But did you restart your game? Otherwise, yeah, logs and stuff would be good. I haven't heard of this before.

[EasyAce]

Having some problems putting together the experients... The girder seem to attach only on the middle, so when I try to mount it on top of the SEP... it attached in the middle and the whole SEP "jump" forward.

[Fr8monkey]

I'm still having trouble attaching the units to the ground.  No matter the tool I use, minutes after attaching, they jump around the place.

[Bombaatu]

1 hour ago, EasyAce said:

Having some problems putting together the experients... The girder seem to attach only on the middle, so when I try to mount it on top of the SEP... it attached in the middle and the whole SEP "jump" forward.

Hit the 'R' key and the girder will properly align to the attachment point.

 

@CobaltWolf - I frequently run out of electric charge on the central station so I have to wait for it to recharge then rerun experiments. Is there any way to see how much electric charge the station has currently (and max)? Also, the Apollo ALSEP used an RTG power module; will one of these be made for SEP?

Edited August 16, 2016 by Bombaatu

[CobaltWolf]

2 hours ago, Bombaatu said:

@CobaltWolf - I frequently run out of electric charge on the central station so I have to wait for it to recharge then rerun experiments. Is there any way to see how much electric charge the station has currently (and max)? Also, the Apollo ALSEP used an RTG power module; will one of these be made for SEP?

We sized it for the stock PB-NUK. And unfortunately, I don't believe there's a way to see it. Perhaps @DMagic can program it into the right click menus via the new plugin.

[DMagic]

Yes, that's something that I was planning on. I can add such a feature to the EC-containing power extension modules too. You can always just switch to the SEP "vessel" and check from there, too.

[EasyAce]

10 hours ago, Bombaatu said:

Hit the 'R' key and the girder will properly align to the attachment point.

 

@CobaltWolf - I frequently run out of electric charge on the central station so I have to wait for it to recharge then rerun experiments. Is there any way to see how much electric charge the station has currently (and max)? Also, the Apollo ALSEP used an RTG power module; will one of these be made for SEP?

The "R"-key? Didn't know about that :-S
I'm just focusing on holding the "H" key and the LMB.

Well got to try this later today. Thx

[Cdw2468]

On August 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Fr8monkey said:

I'm still having trouble attaching the units to the ground.  No matter the tool I use, minutes after attaching, they jump around the place.

I'm also having similar issues, and it doesn't register the fact that they are connected to the Central station because of this I assume. I've wasted so much of my space programs money just to leave broken experiments on the mun