Lisias

I am aware of my own weaknesses, being hot-headed and less then ideally fluent in English two of them. I know how the choosing of words can, even if unconsciously, shape a conversation. Even if not being a root cause, I had contributed for the mess. In a way or another, apologies were asked where (perceived) due, and forgiveness promptly granted where asked. Lets build something constructive from this mess, there are interesting information about how VALVe delists a game - it's not about being right or wrong, it's about understanding the problem. There're more people involved on this mess now, this can escalate badly: kids are easily influenced and manipulated. I will give a peek on the link you provided as soon as I finish the one I'm doing now.

But was in development way before that, exactly when you need programmers the most - this thing wasn't coded in 6 months.

I did a test on a page of mine there, and it appears to be working. Are you logged? Perhaps your login had expired and you didn't noticed.

It's working for me right now, and my logs says that wiki is working (for me at least) in the last 4 hours (didn't bored to check further). However, the response times are not great, some pages took 30 seconds to load, average being between 3 and 7 seconds. SpaceDock also had an event today, don't have a clue if it's related or not.

In Europe, it is. It's the reason I said before that a class auction may be possible on EU. Agreed. That said, a nerved was touched here: I have a very harsh antipathy (the word we use in PT-BR is "Ojeriza") to anything remotely resembling a fallacy - even from myself (what, when happens, I guarantee you is involuntary). Since I'm pretty sure that a good part of your counter-arguing was based on my initial statement "the key selling point" (emphasis on "the"), I'm on the faulty party on this specific subject. Plain saying "apologies" is cheap. So the very least I could do is to scrutinize my arguments the very same way I do on yours. I had said that Steam would not unilaterally delist a game without some very persuasive external... "persuasion". I was wondering how I would further ground my thesis. And then I found this: https://delistedgames.com/all-delisted-steam-games/ I'm planning to play KSP for the rest of the day, and given that I have some concurrent missions, I have a lot of time between one check point and another, and I will use it to check all the games mentioned on that link. At this moment, I just finished the "A" section (only Steam is being analyzed, of course). I found 3 entries not delisted by the Publisher/Developer: "A" https://delistedgames.com/abstractism/ By (ab)using the user's machine to mining cryptocurrency. It's a legal problem, Steam had to delist it or risk facing legal consequences by being accomplice https://delistedgames.com/aery/ Apparently by abusing Steamworks or Steam ToS. But the game was relisted after, so it's not really known. https://delistedgames.com/art-of-stealth/ By malpractice of steam resources (like creating numerous accounts and rigging reviews). This is plain fraud, it's also a legal issue nowadays. Granted, it was not in 2017 "B" https://delistedgames.com/bolsomito/ By order of Brazil's Justice "C" https://delistedgames.com/cold-dreams/ By malpractice of steam resources (like creating numerous accounts and rigging reviews). This is plain fraud, it's also a legal issue nowadays. Granted, it was not in 2017 https://delistedgames.com/corporate-lifestyle-simulator/ By malpractice of steam resources I will not nominate them here, but this would render some serious litigation at least on my country. "D" https://delistedgames.com/dagestan-technology-titles/ A lot of the titles from this publisher were delisted due "abusing some Steamworks tools", but were most were relisted later. Almost surely they were delisted by mistake. https://delistedgames.com/death-gasp/ apparently delisted due "on abuse of Steamworks tools or Steam’s terms of use" like the previous entry, but it wasn't relisted back. https://delistedgames.com/demons-age/ took down on a DMCA claim. https://delistedgames.com/devotion/ The game’s removal was allegedly caused by a jab <removed due political issues> https://delistedgames.com/digital-homicide-studios/ Literally expelled due requesting a subpoena against a hundred steam users. “Valve has stopped doing business with Digital Homicide for being hostile to Steam customers” I surely siding with VALVe on this one. https://delistedgames.com/digital-mistake-titles/ All titles from this publisher were delisted due "abusing some Steamworks tools" https://delistedgames.com/domina/ By malpractice of steam resources I will not nominate them here, but this would render some serious litigation at least on my country. https://delistedgames.com/drunken-ape-titles/ All titles from this publisher were delisted due "abusing some Steamworks tools" "M" https://delistedgames.com/manic-mind-game-lab-titles/ "abusing Steam’s terms of use for several years and his titles were allegedly made from unlicensed or otherwise illicit assets, featured licensed music, or contained lewd content." "P" https://delistedgames.com/paranautical-activity/ Developer tweeted a death threaten against Gabe Newel due something related to Steam https://delistedgames.com/platformica/ By malpractice of steam resources (like creating numerous accounts and rigging reviews). This is plain fraud, it's also a legal issue nowadays. Granted, it was not in 2017 "R" https://delistedgames.com/retro-tanks/ "abuse of Steamworks tools or Steam’s terms of use" "S" https://delistedgames.com/sharf/ By malpractice of steam resources (like creating numerous accounts and rigging reviews). This is plain fraud, it's also a legal issue nowadays. Granted, it was not in 2017 https://delistedgames.com/siberian-digital-titles/ "abuse of Steamworks tools" https://delistedgames.com/silicon-rising/ "Apparently removed by Valve, the studio has reportedly been working to get the game relisted since it was taken down" Steam Discussion for the game suggests they got a better deal with Oculus. "" Some titles apparently were removed by Steam due the publisher/developer closing accounts or ceasing to exist, but there's no confirmation. These titles were not listed above, I'm only listing the titles that were delisted by VALVe. That page lists 892 delisted games, where: WiP WiP WiP I will edit this post as I check the other titles.

If you are talking about "the key selling point" versus "a key selling point", you are right about me making a mistake, but you are wrong about not admitting my mistake. I didn't changed the meaning after the fact, I fixed the wording after detecting the mistake - and I didn't hided it. However, I'm pretty sure I used the "don't care" terminology pretty accurately, what rendered your argument (using the link about "Controversial yada yada") completely bonkers. On this point, you are the one "patently wrong". I think it's better to decline on further commenting the rest of your posting - as a matter of fact, probably commenting anything at all with you again. May the road rise with you.

Yes, they have the right to buy an unethical (from your point of view) product; no one have the right to buy illegal products; and that's all. There's a huge difference between being unethical and illegal. Emphasis are mine. And I will (re)emphasize: by law, and not by your (neither mine) sense of ethics. People have the right to like and buy crappy games. Me included (and, in fact, I had bought some and liked some of them, besides being crappy). Common sense. Your user base is not made of a homogeneous mass of people that like exactly the same thing. Your user base is made of completely different people, with sometimes antagonistic and/or plain mutually exclusive goals and desires, and you want money from all of them. You alienate 5% of your user base now, you lose 5% of your revenue. How many years did your company need to increase their net profit by 5%? Once your competition catches up on things that every user wants, you need to capitalize on the things your competition can't provide them, what invariably will mean pleasing many of your minorities - otherwise you will be dragged into a race to the bottom (i.e., you will have to rely only on price as persuasion device). Product Management 101 (again): you need to manage the expectations (and avoid the rejections) of 100% of your user base if you want money from 100% of the user base. If you have no choice but to wave some of them, you need to carefully measure the consequences on the long run to see if it will worth any gain you would have on the short one. THIS IS EXACTLY HOW IT WORKS. Check the current game industry and tell me who are surviving, who are dying, and what they did to end where they ended. I do not need to be "better", there's a reason we pay professional statisticians on a Company. All I need are skills to use the knowledge I have to do minimally viable estimations about the reality to be able to filter out what's possible and what's plain impossible, and then I hire a professional statistician to double check and properly ground anything that I don't rule out as obviously impossible. Project Management 101: you don't make the data you use for taking decisions, you hire competent people to provide such data to you - while doing good enough estimations in the mean time. I will decline to comment anything about any perceivable skills of yours. Dude, anyone carrying a gun have the "authority" to shoot anyone in the streets. What they don't have is the RIGHT to do such. Authority is not the same as Right. Having power is not the same as being rightful. Do know the term "Authoritarian Rulers"? Yes, Steam have the "authority" to do whatever they want on their Store. But they can't wave the consequences. The only, the very single example you gave in which they, indeed, forced their hand over a game developer plain screams censorship and authoritarianism. "no one may be forced to do anything not provided for by law". You find a law forbidding bad games from being published, and I will reevaluate my position. Until there, I will scream censorship and authoritarianism on anything that smells like - as the proposal under discussion. No. A key selling point is something being openly and clearly used to attract customers to your shop/product. It's blatantly clear that modding was a selling key point to KSP2, as they were advertised (surprise! ) on the same line as... Multiplayer! And I will quote me (again): Reviewing my posts, I didn't found one of mine talking about it being "the selling point" (this phrase is from you, not me). [edit: found it. Fixed it. So, yeah, I'm the one that commited the mistake - why Firefox didn't caught it with the Alt+F command, it's a mystery to me] However, giving how things had became hot around here, it's not impossible that I had said it myself, and the phrase got snipped by being embedded on some non forum compliant sentence of mine. If at any moment I wrote "the selling point", instead of "a selling point", then it was a mistake that I hope can be corrected now. Patently wrong. Happens all the time in businesses. Look at all the petitions that have ever been created over products going in a direction or adding features that the majority of the client base/market didn't want. Just look at the gaming industry. You can read the following article that talks directly about this: Controversial Features Games Immediately Regretted (sigh) People don't leave you by things they don't care. The link you posted clearly demonstrates exactly that, and not what you said. People cared about that subjects, and abandoned the games because the developer failed to take care of things the users cared about!!! I really should not be explaining basic English semantics here. Heck, I am the non English speaking foreign here. And your "Patently wrong" (false) assertion is not helping you neither given how easily you misuse it. If we can't agree on basic English semantics, there's really no point on discussing anything with you.

Can you give us a screenshot of the problem? Just to be sure about exactly what the problem is, as I'm finding it weird not being able to rotate the part. Did you tried the rotation tool (that 4 small buttons on top right of the Editor view, I think the shortcut is 2 or 3...)

[snip] Not exactly, it was proved that Forum, the software and database, are working fine. The 502 and 503 problems are almost surely related to something between Forum's servers and CloudFlare. The analysis of the errors pattern strongly suggests something in the middle has a outbound traffic quota - and if there's a quota, there's someone paying for it. The logical conclusion is that someone shrunk the Forum's budget to a level they considered comfortable for them, but it ended up being insufficient for the current Forum's demand. So, yeah. Someone care enough to pay for that quota and for renewing the Forum's software license. But, at the same time, they don't value us enough to pay for more outbound traffic (what surprised me, as it's my understanding that this is cheaper than a database hosting), hinting that they may be evaluating the cost/benefit of this solution. I'm afraid we are not giving them good reasons to raise such budget. That said, I had asked the moderators to kindly move our conversation to a new topic so we stop derailing this one. I didn't create a new one right now because this would not solve the already existent posts, so may I suggest we give this thread some time so a moderator could give a look on my request? If the request is denied, I strongly suggest we voluntarily move our conversation to a new thread in a day or two, where we can bash our sorry arses without derailing this one.

I installed this very same setup on a 1.12.5 test bed, and I got similar results. Please note that the DwarfPlanetsPlus is being patched AFTER KOPERNICUS. Since Kopernicus is patched after DPP due the patching being applied in ascending order, this is the reason your custom patches are being applied "too soon". MM is doing right. Kopernicus is the one tricking you here - besides not being exactly an error neither. I had advocated for a solution for this problem some time ago, by the way. Unfortunately, my proposal was ignored and nothing was proposed to fix the problem neither. TL;DR: Kopernicus should be patching DwarfPlanetsPlus using ":FOR[DwarfPlanetsPlus]:NEEDS[DwarfPlanetsPlus]". The needs will prevent the patch from being applied if DPP is not installed, and the :FOR will patch it in the "FOR" loop, allowing you to correctly apply :AFTER . Right now, your best chance is to use ":FINAL", or perhaps some ":AFTER[zzzz_something]" to achieve what you want. edit: unless you edit Kopernicus' patches, of course... And, interesting enough, you reached to the same conclusion as I did! Just add ":NEEDS[DwarfPlanetsPlus]" to the patch to prevent your patching from being applied (and creating a MM tag for DPP) when DPP is not installed! (sorry answering you just now, I had missed the previous post)

I regretfully inform you that I didn't found anything obviously fishing involved the part. (would be something I did wrong, you can bet your favorite Yoke I would had fixed it right now). Your log suggests that the DBArmory need some seriously care, as I had lost the number of errors and exceptions involving it in you log, but I didn't managed to correlate it to this case. One quick (but destructive) test you can do is to remove BDArmory (and everything that depends on it) from your rig and see if something changes. Please do it on a copy (literally, CTRL-C your KSP directory, and CTRL-V on Desktop for example) and then butch the copy to do the tests. Let me know if you find something that may help me on diagnosing the problem! Cheers!

It is exactly how it works: 1 each 4 buyers wants modding. 3 each 4 don't care. So it's a key selling point because not adding it will cause a 25% potential loss in revenue, while adding will literally have no penalty involved (other than technical, of course). People that don't care about a feature will not leave you if you add it, but people that rejects it surely will. You are blatantly failing to see that 75% of the current buyers would had bought the game no matter it having modding support or not, making just simply obvious that adding modding would be the single most lucrative feature to be added to backlog, as it would increase the revenue by 25% just by itself. The key word is REJECTION. It's REJECTION the main drive force when building your feature list - and the game industry (as well politics, unfortunately) are virtually littered with a myriad of examples on how this is real! This is Product Management 101. Oh, dear... here we go again. The Day Before The Day Before developer Fntastic made the shock announcement that it was closing down. Soon after, Fntastic removed the purchase button on the game's Steam page and wiped its presence from the internet. All this just four days after The Day Before launched in Early Access. https://www.ign.com/articles/under-fire-developer-of-disastrous-steam-flop-the-day-before-insists-it-really-is-closing-down Devotion Devotion was delisted from Steam on February 25th, 2019. The game’s removal was allegedly caused by a jab at <...removed due political issues...> https://delistedgames.com/devotion/ StarForge On January 27, 2017, the game was pulled from the Steam store and a DRM free copy of the game was uploaded to the developer's website. The developers also announced that they had no plans for further development of the game. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarForge#Removal_from_Steam Hatred Hatred was only temporarily removed during the Greenlight process, which was a long time ago. https://steamcommunity.com/app/341940/discussions/0/133258593381997667/ NONE of your examples support your thesis, and were quickly debunked (about 3 minutes each). The only one that VALVe did it unilateraly was due overwhelmingly external powers that forced their hand. Sir, I strongly encourage you to double check your sources.

Dude, please... Emphasis are mine. They MAY offer refunds. MAY. Not to mention that they WILL NOT unilaterally remove the game from Steam, this is something that the publisher should do!! Please read the linked document about Retirement. Please note that if Steam unilaterally decide to Cancel the game, they will be in charge of the refunds and then sue Private Division to recover the costs - and, obviously, the current P.D. owner will fight back. Things are not easy as you are implying. [snip] 25% of the purchase base is 1 each 4 buyers. Perhaps in some other World, but on this one, 25% IS A HELL of group in your user base, big enough to drive some requirements. And, in time: And I rest my case. Modding was a key selling point for KSP2 (too). It's on their freaking official site. There's no point on keep arguing about this with you. Prove it. If they didn't cared at all, no one would had fixed Forum neither and would had already pulled the plug. One can only speculate about the reasons the new owner choose not do show themself yet - you can't affirm what they care or not. Except for money, we can surely affirm, without the slightest shadow of doubt, that they care about money. I think your apparent <self-snipped> annoyance about this subject may be hindering your <self-sniped>. I will quote myself (it's becoming an habit ), before my editing in a (probably futile) attempt to clarify: If we had 500USD and give 30% to Steam, we have 350USD in our pockets now. If 2 people ask for refund, at 50USD each, we will end with 250USD in our wallet (I'm assuming VALVe will keep their share on the sales). It's so blatantly obvious that I'm reticent on keep engaging with you from this point.

Are you? As state above, there's little to no hope for success on USA - but it could happen on Europe, I think. This is something that I would support - the current game description should be updated to depict the current state of the game, and this is already under the new owner's shoulders. And what do you understand as education? Some enlightened authority telling people what's good and what's bad? Imposing the delisting of the game just because it's "bad" is censorship. You are sending the wrong message to the wrong audience - you are, in essence, creating a worse problem trying to fix one that it's not fixable anymore. This ship has sailed already, there's no chance of doing anything that would have a resemblance of Justice by now. So, if this is not about Justice, what else is it about? Nope, delisting a game from EA is not handled as cancellation. You are ill informed. Delist is jut ceasing the sales and removing if from the front store. The only consequence of delisting a game is people willing to buy it not being able to do so. And, again, why doing it just now? Why people are willing to "punish" the new P.D, owner instead of TTWO, that were in fact the responsible for the mess? And you are ignoring that you don't need to delist the game to refund it. Had this happened before the buyout, I would understand. Right now, it's just a low blow on the new owner and I'm getting increasingly interested on knowing if there's someone behind the scenes pulling some strings on this -and who they are. No. I want to quote me: [edit: i made a pretty stupid mistake on using "the" instead of "a". This screwed the argument, putting me on the faulty party. Fixing it.] Modding is a key selling point, and I pinpointed Reddit as one source, not the only one. We are talking about KSP, not about any other game. Heck, the KSP¹ API is still available. How in hell you claim that modding is not a KSP selling point? https://www.kerbalspaceprogram.com/ksp/api/index.html Please be attentive about your own biases - THIS IS KERBAL SPACE PROGRAM, known for a decade for being modding friendly. [edit: and I should be more attentive on word choosing] On the other hand, 25% of the user base modding a game is way above the normal curve... I found "1%" as the most common estimation... So I will end up insisting on this: [edit: i made a pretty stupid mistake on using "the" instead of "a". This screwed the argument, putting me on the faulty party. Fixing it.] Agreed. But still, couldn't resist using a video from the same source to counter-argument the delisting claim. But, yet, after cleaning up the vomit, you are here discussing the subject so we need to give credit where credit is due, this dude managed to get what he wanted. That's the whole problem - we would create yet a new precedent, where entire franchises would just die because no one would be willing to risk buying them because it will be common use to punish the new owners after the buyout, instead of punishing the real responsibles, the old owners while they are still owners of the unwanted son. Not to mention the simple workaround I mentioned above: promote whatever you have as 1.0, and then delist it. Prove it. Forum is still alive and funded. So they care at least a very little bit. KSP2 at this point is what they call "residual incoming". All the investment is already made, it costs little to nothing to keep the game on the stores and if they get 10 sales a month, it's essentially free money at this point. At 50 bucks a sale, 10 sales a month would be 500USD/month. VALVe gets 30%, so they keep 350USD on their wallets. Let's assume that 2 users ask for refunds, so it the net balance would be 250USD/month (refunds are refunded in full, right? I'm assuming VALVe keep their share). The Forum's software license costs 500USD up front (already paid in the past), and 200USD/year renewal, I don't know about how much Forum is costing on hosting and networking, but it should be something near 100 to 200 USD/month given the current level of QoS we have now. So we are talking about 200/12=17 (provisioning for the next renewal) and 200, let's round to 220USD/Month. That meager 10 sales a month is enough to keep Forum running. You remove it from the Stores, the choice will be to take money from KSP¹ sales to fund Forum, or just shut this thing down and call it a day ("they don't care", after all!) It's about the money. It's always about the money. Ask Ubisoft about.

Nope, it's possible - you heat rock enough, it will vapourize. You heat it fast enough, the vapour will create kinetic energy while expanding. You keep the kinectic energy for time enough, it will break the gravity well. As matter is expelled from the gravity well, the body's gravity will decrease, and easier will be for the remaining vapourize matter to be expelled. So, yeah. A "thermal pulse" big enough will scatter a planet into space wandering dust. It only happens that a Red Giant will never reach a point in which such thermal pulse would be remotely possible.