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Dientus

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    Common sense, Litigation, and Hot Coffee

    in The Lounge

    Posted

    Admittedly, I held my breath because I myself am anti-big government (to avoid labels) and believe that while yes there are untrustworthy people in a society, it also includes the government itself and I don't believe long-winded bureaucracy can solve that. I believe that's what judges are for to go on the individual case at hand.

     

    However...

    14 minutes ago, DeadJohn said:

    Illnesses and injuries can sometimes be due to irresponsible behavior. However, every sick person should get treatment. Sick people without health care or sick leave have to go to work sick, and then make coworkers and customers sick. A society that encourages sick people to stay home and recover is better for everyone.

    Another example of personal responsibility is home fires. I'm okay with my tax dollars paying for fire protection for everyone, regardless of how the fire started. Irresponsible people fall asleep while smoking in bed, or are bad cooks and set the kitchen on fire. Personal responsibility suggests that those people should have their house burn down. The problem with that is that the fire spreads to their more responsible neighbors.

    This is actually something that I can understand and get behind. You will get no arguments for me on these topics.

     

    But concerning this ...

    17 minutes ago, DeadJohn said:

    Businesses can also be irresponsible, often because the people involved are greedy or lazy. We can't merely say that a business that dumps toxic waste will go out of business. The costs of cleanup are so high that government has to step in when the people at fault can't be fined enough to pay for it.

    I'm not entirely behind because this would be something that a business could actually pay for over time. I will explain my view using a real lifes friend situation. She got the short end of a child support stick, due to written law and her situation for years and how things turned out she ends up with a bill over $50,000 USD. the way the laws are there was no choice, someone who made minimum wage under $7 USD an hour, this is one heck of a blow. Years later she is down to just over $10,000 USD. 

     

    Now I would expect a company to do the same if they couldn't afford something. When I go to the bank to borrow $20,000 USD, I am at their mercy and must do everything they ask and on time if they do in fact give me this loan. So too should the company beheld this way towards the people and the government they owe the fine to, with the people and the government dictating terms.

     

    For businesses, this is rarely true. CEOs stay in place, policies only change on the surface, noone learns a lesson, as well as they raise prices on goods and services so that they can still make a large profit for their board of investors and the upper management can still make 6 digit yearly incomes.

     

    In my one example using the coal ash spill, it goes even further when the state government got involved. The people had no voice in what happened, and the government okayed a price hike for those services to pay for it without the people's consent. To me that is a form of taxation without representation. The very thing that started the Boston tea party in the USA.

     

    Common sense, Litigation, and Hot Coffee

    in The Lounge

    Posted

    10 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

    I recall in the early 1990s it was looking shockingly funny to read the caption on the silica gel bags from the boxes with imported electronics "Do not eat".

    Currently I see, that was just a little part of that.

    I agree.

     

    One of the biggest issues for the creation of these labels is how parents allow their children to do these things because children don't know any better and parents at least in my view from what I have seen, seem to be too lazy to teach them and do not want to give them care like we (humans) used to care for children. Children must be watched at all times. I guess on the flip side of that the modern world doesn't allow for parents to watch children all the time either since it takes two people working to survive in any comfort.

    Common sense, Litigation, and Hot Coffee

    in The Lounge

    Posted

    10 hours ago, DeadJohn said:

    With respect to "common sense", you are saying that the woman should have used common sense to not burn herself. It could also be said that McDonald's, a huge corporation with an army of lawyers and analysts behind the scenes, should be even smarter and reduce situations that reportedly lead to hundreds of serious burns per year. In any legal system and economic framework, it's smart, common-sense, and completely foreseeable that people will work within that system. McDonald's, the woman, her attorney, judge, and the jury all made sane, rational decisions given the US legal system.

    I never thought to view it in terms as large as this. I actually could see this, but to me it also then removes individual responsibility. I understand modern society at the end of the day probably does need to be told what to do and what not to do but that is because in my opinion, all sense of self-responsibility has gone out the window. If we as individuals used common sense and believed that we were responsible for our own actions, then the need for big government is gone. Pipe-dream at this point I suppose.

     

    And that brings up the excellent point you made of health care. I agree, the health costs incurred should have been covered regardless of who paid. But there in lies what I believe to be another issue. The fact that we should care, at least at some level, for one another and WANT our healthcare workers paid and happy. WANT to care for others injuries. To me it makes sense we do all of this because we are a social species and we NEED one another to contribute, help, and assist others.

     

    What are some Real life "Glitches" you've noticed?

    in The Lounge

    Posted

    40 minutes ago, benzman said:

    Being a gentleman of advanced years, I experience 'glitches' all the time. For instance, I still flirt with women, I just can't remember why.  Having said that, I still get lucky now and again.  Of course, these days, 'getting lucky' means walking into a room and remembering why i went there.

    This all day long :joy:

    Common sense, Litigation, and Hot Coffee

    in The Lounge

    Posted

    10 minutes ago, DeadJohn said:

    In the McDonald's coffee case, the burned woman originally asked McDonald's to just pay her bills before she filed a lawsuit. From the Wikipedia article linked in the top post:

    Liebeck sought to settle with McDonald's for $20,000 to cover her actual and anticipated expenses. Her past medical expenses were $10,500; her anticipated future medical expenses were approximately $2,500; and her daughter's[14] loss of income was approximately $5,000 for a total of approximately $18,000. Instead, the company offered only $800.

    Point taken.

     

    It may seem as if I am defending the company but I am not. I think of myself as trying to defend common sense.

     

    So as a supposition then, does it appear to you that maybe the lawyers and judges are at fault for such exorbitant amounts of money? Had the company paid her medical bills none of this would have come to pass then?

     

     

    Side Note: I knew this was the correct place to bring this up, even if there are opposing views the majority on this forum speak realistically and concisely with examples and it is appreciated. This is how knowledge is gained and new ways of thinking come to light, thanks to all.

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