NathanKell

From the nose this reminds me *so* strongly of the BAe Multi-Role Capsule: (Apologies if it's been brought up before...)

I know of three "better gimbals" mods: careo's SmarterGimbal in ExsurgentEngineering dtobi's KM_Gimbal in the plugin for Space Shuttle Engines / Smart Parts numberobis' SMRTGimbal All three offer fixed gimbals and roll control IIRC.

pingopete: are you using RcsSounds? Or anything else that replaces RCS modules or engine modules?

That means "you need Deadly Reentry v4.2 or you won't have the base heatshields that RO changes". Even if you don't plan to use RO, you need the DRE_ShieldsFix.cfg from RO. Also, if I'm reading your post right, you should take note that the Mk1 capsule has a built in heatshield (hence the black and heatshieldy bottom, and the "Heatshield" module listed when you get rightclick info in the partlist). You don't need to add an extra one.

You should see a black embossed capsule-shaped bar to the right of the fuel list. It should start near the top and go most of the way down. Grab it and drag it down. That will scroll down.

Oh, excellent!

dlrk: cool! The LR88 does support considerable throttling (down to, what, 56% or so at TL6 which would be right for that kind of craft?) so that can help some. Throttle back as soon as you go over 3G? That said with RSS if you curve your ascent right you shouldn't really have to cut engines and restart, right? Maybe ~200m/s insertion burn after a single launch burn? Or does the high TWR all the way up mean you're burning too far away from apogee? (If so, try a flatter ascent, trying to keep apogee only a few dozen seconds ahead at most.) How much dV does your crew shuttle have? Also, have considered crossfeeding from the mani booster to the shuttle? Even if the engines run on different fuels, you could stick some of the shuttle's engines' fuels into the external tank. jrandom: Heh, no. But recall that we consider KSP turbojets actually turboramjets (and even that strains credulity). metroidman63: thanks to lots of testing help from Draft, figured it out. It's because you have RCS Sounds, which replaces ModuleRCS with its own module. While I am currently trying to support that as well transparently (hopefully in RFv4.2), for now just remove the RCS Sounds mod.

Nope. Jets shouldn't be touched, unless I goofed.

dlrk: materials might work on first glance, but a "part" in KSP, particularly a fuselage part, is a collection of lots of stuff: heat shielding, outer skin, framework, wiring, probably multiple pressure vessels, ducting, electronics, etc. That's why one needs to look at the masses of actual craft, IMO. They're not just empty shells. Unless they're fairings, obviously... In RF, 1 unit = 1 liter. What you probably should do is look at drawings of, say, Skylon or X-33 that show the size of the tank vs the size of the structure around it, then sketch out how much of the part you could use for, say, two capsule tanks. Then use their volume. As a general rule, I find that 20% of a cylinder is non-pressure-vessel space, and for a fuselage (especially one with heat shielding, wiring, tank ducting, etc.) it may be up to 30% of the volume wasted. To find the size of a part, use a stretchy tank as a measuring tool. Scale up a superstretchy, then clip it so it surrrounds the part, then gradually cut its width and height until you find the part's dimensions. Ferram: Good to know! I switched all my RftS engines over to dtobi's gimbal (with mass-proprotional speed), but I'm having (and so are some others) some weird control-inversion effects, so I might have to go back. RealEngines still uses the stock module though. metroidman63: KSP appears to sometimes load my module before it knows the RCS module exists. It doesn't for me, though...working on it. dlrk: pretty much. Some of the L+ ones support multipl reignitions at higher TLs though (5? 6? 7?). Which engines in particular are you wanting to use? Even an SSTO* will generally use something other than its main engine for orbital insertion and retro-fire. *I mean any SSTO, not just "spaceplane SSTO." It's actually non-trivial to make a big engine with a big turbopump restart. That's why most restartable engines are pressure-fed hypergolics.

Agathorn, I, uh, forgot what thread I was on <blush> Yes, obviously you will have a much more limited selection of parts than I was imagining--my apoloies! Glad it worked anyway though, and my pleasure! I know MedievalNerd is *planning* to put most fairing options at the start node, but until then I guess you are kinda stuck. Anyway, here's what's happening. When you burn level to the surface, you're only ever so slightly raising your apogee, you're mostly raising your perigee. However, once your perigee is near your apogee, *then* burning horizontal will increase your apogee. Think about it in 2d terms. If you're traveling up, and you accelerate forward (parallel to the ground), you keep moving your landing point farther and farther away from you (your apogee won't change). Eventually you'll go so fast your landing point will no longer exist (orbit) at which point the faster you're going, the further *away* you go before gravity pulls you back. EDIT: in other words, once your perigee rises above the earth's surface, it quickly becomes the apogee. The point in the orbit you've been raising so far, you continue to raise; the names just switch because the point on the far side of the world is now a higher altitude than the point near you.

Sweet! Also, doesn't middle click + drag work for panning?

What other mods are you using? MFT / RF used to do this; taniwha fixed it (if you have MFT or RF, is it the latest?). But maybe Stretchy is also just doing it itself.

HoneyFox: I totally forgot that the latest EI bundles engine configs in the main install. For obvious reasons this conflicts *mightily* with any RF-based engine config that *also* adds EI modules and configs. Could I persuade you to go back to having them be a separate download? Or, failing that, might it be possible for me to bundle a stripped-down version of EngineIgnitor with RF or RO?

m_robber: I will check it out on my end. I got the inverted controls bug once myself with something different; I will try to track it down. Definitely has to do with the new gimbals. metroidman63: it can't find Aerozine or N2O4, which certanly sounds like RF 4.1 isn't installed and working properly. Delete any ModularFuelTanks or RealFuels folder in ksp/gamedata. Extract the RealFuels v4.1 archive to ksp/gamedata. Before loading KSP, make sure you have only one module manager dll anywhere in gamedata. Then launch KSP. If it still fails, zip and upload your ksp/KSP_Data/output_log.txt dlrk: if I knew that, I'd have banged the configs out long ago. I spend months researching this stuff; I haven't had time to research spaceplanes and hypersonic aircraft and their structural coefficients etc. I suggest looking up all the diagrams and plans and reviews you can find on various spaceplane projects and 'gettng a feel' for their size vs. dry mass fraction (and subtract engine from that dry mass) and then try to piece it out into parts. Takes a lot of fiddling with Excel. I'm not trying to be a downer or snarky or anything btw; it just *is* a lot of work, work that's usually hidden by the fact that all users see is "oh my tanks mass something different now." Agathorn: are you using RftSEngines now? They should all have at least one ignition available. Makre sure you're using the absolute latest Engine Ignitor and that...oh. Right. Delete all cfg files in KSP/GameData/EngineIgnitor. Sorry, I *totally* forgot HoneyFox has been bundling configs with EI. Bet they've been conflicting. Super sorry! I'll ask if either HoneyFox can remove them as automatic inclusion in the mod, or if I can just include a stripped down version in RO.

Well, all I had to do was upload. You actually fixed it. So be sure to pat yourself on the back at least as hard.

How's this? Changelog: v4.3 = \/ *(Engine) overheating bug fixed thanks to FlowerChild https://www.dropbox.com/s/l5a9x6vqwsr5uxs/DeadlyReentryCont_v4.3.zip

You click and hold right in the middle of the (upper half of the) bar. You then drag it down to scroll down.

Great! Although, full props to a.g.--they did the speed refactor with all the new goodies. So that's not my new init bits. I'm going to (when I get a sec) also use a.g.'s profiler for RealFuels too (not that *you'd* care per se, but others will ) and try for a similar speedup. I'll add this and release 4.3--thanks so much!

Agathorn: I'd say 14-15km/s dV for geosynch is probably safe. 13.4 vac dV is way too low--remember that you'll spend some of your time in atmosphere, where your Isp is lower. I estimate you'll lose 200-400m/s dV due to that. So you can't just look at the dV chart and then give yourself that in vac dV; you have to account for nozzle/atmospheric losses. Also, remember to up the TL of your engines (same place you configure them for fuel mode) unless you want to be playing circa 1950. Techlevels description are in post 3 of Real Fuels thread. Also, re: flight profile: yup, that's 90% of it. You never, *ever* want to shoot straight up, since by definition all the dV you expend on going up will be lost as gravity losses. Instead you want to fly a normal ascent (pitch program init at 100m/s, be horizontal at maybe 120km) and just keep burning until apogee = 35,786km. By the time your apogee is that high, likely your perigee will be above the atmosphere, and you can stick around in your GTO until your apogee is over where you want. When it is, circularize at apogee, and you have your satellite in GEO. Some notes on your rokcet. 1.13 is pretty much the *minimum* possible launch thrust; you'll likely net lose only a few m/s if you lighten the lower stage until you have 1.2TWR on liftoff. .9 is also a bit low for post-boost core stage; but that'll be taken care of by raising liftoff thrust to 1.2. Your secodn stage has WAY too high a TWR--4.6G initial TWR. *That's* where you want to start having sub-1 TWRs. Try starting at about 0.8, you should end at maybe 5. Also, don't be afraid to use the "wrong" size engine on a tank: that's what procedural interstages are for. Since you're using RftSEngines, I'd suggest using maybe the LR42R (AIES Galaxy VR) instead of the Miles or Decurion (LV-Twhatever) you've got right now. If not, use the Optio (LV-909). Your final stage is also quite high in TWR; try using maybe 2-3 LR25s. Another suggestion to decrease drag losses: every time you change diameter on your core, little baby ferram cries. Try using short, fat upper stages instead, of the same diameter as your core; if necessary, fair away the apogee kick stage *inside* the main fairnig. The mass you pay for the larger fairing will probably be outweighed by what you gain in lower drag losses, and will *certainly* be outweighed by the fact your launcher will be much more stable (lower center of pressure). I'll try to whip something up as an example for you if you like. Elokaynu: Grab the TOP part of that bar (the only place it's actually a bar) and move it down. Also, since I'm the guy who wrote all this stuff, I'm pretty sure I know the right file to have given you.

EDIT: tooltips ninja'd by ferram. tonnyrat: the Stockalikes config in the second post does, as does RftSEngines (link in second post). Neither as yet support the AuxMotors though.

FlowerChild: I came up with what it is overnight. Pretty sure; I mean, I have to test, but... It comes from how KSP .23 does loading, where it appears to reload parts (or rather partmodules) again later (thus clobbering some of DRE's changes). It bit Strethcy and RF any everything else in the butt, causing mucho headaches. Basically, the part's heatproduction will get reset to the way it was before but the gauge won't. I think I know what I need to do to fix it too.

KhaosCorp: you can convert any mbm to PNG. And KSP doesn't care what format its textures are in, so once you convert, delete the original MBM and the new png will be used as the texture. Or convert the PNG to TGA if you like that better. BobCat: Looking good! As always, but I hope you know that

RSS has that (sig). If you don't want the other stuff it does, remove everything in the CFG except the part pertaining to VAB/SPH

Oh, the MLV-5 with 260s? Nice. Probably 200t to LEO? EDIT: Heh, off by a country mile. 360t. Note it even had "asparagus" staging, aka crossfeed from the boosters. http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/satv4260.htm

Eadrom: I've switched all the gimbals in RftSEngines to use dtobi's new gimbal, since it (a) supports non-instant gimbal response (no, F-1 did not gimbal instantly...) and (b, and more importantly) allows engines offset from the centerline to gimbal for roll control--this is necessary both to allow rolling, and to prevent the roll that the stock gimbal module induces. You can keep using the RftSEngines.cfg you have; I don't think anything major changed in RftSEngines. Engine Ignitor requirement is not hardcoded; just if you don't have the mod then you won't get limited restarts and ullage simulation. Shouldn't have any impact on performance to add it, though. Cheers! AbeS: If you placed one engine such that it doesn't fire through the centerline, then you can roll with it. You get other problems though, of course. But yes, it's mainly for supporting verniers and for craft with engine clusters (both to support roll, and to fix the issue where clustered engines with the stock gimbal module will induce roll). dlkr: Very possible. I encourage you to do it. Captain_Party: licensing, usually. In point of fact that's why I asked Sarbian to add the $ operator to ModuleManager (copy node), but it doesn't work because the root of gamedatabase is readonly... Kurbis: Yes, they're recommended for RO as well. Or rather, RO is one of them.