[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[vossiewulf]

12 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

I'm just a bit burned out after the MFT-LV fuel tanks (lots of modeling work), and then the big PBR-texture conversion (so very much texturing work).  Was not only a ton of work... but was mostly boring, repetitive,... work.  Need a break for a bit after that, though I am still working on cleaning up some of the missing/unfinished stuff as best I can.

I'm so burned out from my own real life work that I'm pretty much carbonized at this point, I understand. Short version is that in 6 weeks you've done more quality modding work than most KSP modders have done, ever. So you don't even have to consider sweating taking a break, do whatever unwinds you for a couple weeks.

[Jimbodiah]

Hah. So I'm not the only one that is spending more time in the VAB than in space     OH, shiny

[RedParadize]

@Jimbodiah No you are not!

[Shadowmage]

2 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

Hah. So I'm not the only one that is spending more time in the VAB than in space     OH, shiny

 

Just now, RedParadize said:

@Jimbodiah No you are not!

If you grab the latest release of TU from over the weekend -- you'll even get the skybox visible in the editor.  It seems so minor... but it adds so very much.

[RedParadize]

Just now, Shadowmage said:

If you grab the latest release of TU from over the weekend -- you'll even get the skybox visible in the editor.  It seems so minor... but it adds so very much.

Thank you very much!

I might have suggested that at some point. So we could have our cake and eat it too. 

[vossiewulf]

37 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Hehe, I have been taking some time recently to actually -play- some KSP.

Just wish I was using the PBR version, I'm still on 1.3 out of procrastinating updating 9247 mods. I tried it with 1.30, that was bad.

Spoiler

This first shot is after I dropped off four Thor SRBs that were scaled up to 3.2m. Second stage is 7 RD-180s and third is 5 RD-180s. Payload mass was 137 tons, with 29k rocketparts for the inflation of the hab plus procedural RCS tanks on each end with about 5k MP, used about a quarter in docking.

 

[RedParadize]

@vossiewulf Trust me, you do not want to update everything at once, its the best way to go insane. Start with the essential, then pick up mods as you need them, you will soon realise that you didn't need them all because your FPS will go up by 300%.

[vossiewulf]

You know like srsly how did it manage this? I decoupled from the station science section, did a control from here on the TKS (the pod to the right) and did some RCS acceleration to pull away from the old parts. A bit later something looked odd and I zoomed in and found this. Two SSTU 1.25m docking ports have moved, one apparently disappeared into hyperspace (it's not on the other side), and the second one is now attached to a port 90 degrees from where it was attached.

It's no real problem for me I have a zillion docking ports on this thing but that is an odd bug. Did you include an Infinite Improbability Drive in the TKS DOS part by chance?

 

BTW would it be possible to add some crew slots to the CFG that have inventories? I understand not wanting to have 40 inventories, but zero means engineers shall never visit there, they're always carrying KIS stuff.

Edited November 29, 2017 by vossiewulf

[RedParadize]

@vossiewulf Is that a ST-HUB-DOS or a mount with individual docking port around it?

I had a bug like that long long time ago, before I started to play with SSTU. Just like your current station, mine had allot of part. Long story short, I decoupled a ship and from a Mun ground station and took off, as I went up my ship started to slow down, like if something was pulling it back. I looked behind my ship and few km away there were a big chunk of my ground station flying toward me!  Lost the ship and the base.

More part you have, more chance Cthulhu Kraken will notice you. Which is why I fell in love with SSTU: it provide a Low Part Count Solutions that reduce the lag and the risk of bug like this. 

[Shadowmage]

9 hours ago, vossiewulf said:

BTW would it be possible to add some crew slots to the CFG that have inventories? I understand not wanting to have 40 inventories, but zero means engineers shall never visit there, they're always carrying KIS stuff.

As I rarely use KIS... my motivation to spend time on KIS patches is low....  (KIS has too many incompatibilities for it to be one of my often-used mods)

But I thought KIS was supposed to, by default, patch anything with a crew-capacity?  (erm... wait... what is the config-specified crew capacity in the CFG parts?)

 

[RedParadize]

7 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

As I rarely use KIS... my motivation to spend time on KIS patches is low....  (KIS has too many incompatibilities for it to be one of my often-used mods)

But I thought KIS was supposed to, by default, patch anything with a crew-capacity?  (erm... wait... what is the config-specified crew capacity in the CFG parts?)

It does and it work. Size is fairly small and for part that have +20 crew its a mess. It might not work for deployable part like the inflatable ring trough.

[Shadowmage]

In general development news:

Petal adapter code appears to be all working as it should be with the new 'retract' feature in place and adjustable deploy limits.  Should be included in the next release.

All RCS ports have been modified to use the new ModularRCS part-module, to allow for scaling, structure and fuel switching.  A few new 'structure' variants have been added as well (2x and 3x truss segments).

Service module code is progressing well.  Most features work already, but still a few that need a bit more development (rcs module updating).  And tons of config-based work to do for it -- so many configs to write -- model definitions, part configs, texture sets.  I think I might be able to pull off this part series without creating a single model specifically for it.  I have enough adapter and fuel tank models of various sizes and shapes that so far I've been able to make up a decent selection of SM body variants strictly through config file.  If that is the case (not needing any new models), these parts might well be available much sooner.

(The Probe-core/satellite core series of parts -will- need new models, as I would like something other than 'round' for my satellite buses, so these will likely be done at some point in the future).

 

Just about time to start discussing the next bits to be developed -- pretty sure it will be a couple sets of landing legs for the MFT-LV tanks.  Going to try to resurrect the geometry from the old LC-LEG-HVY parts, with some adjustments for the new tank geometry (mounting points mostly).  Fairly certain these will be developed as a scalable 'leg quad' that can be mounted on the bottom node of the fuel tank (can add a specific lower-interstage node if needed).

The second leg concept that I'm going to explore is actual a combination low-profile service/cargo bay + landing leg combination.  The legs, when stowed, will be stored inside some of the compartments in the service bay (the other compartments will be empty, for arbitrary storage use).

And as I'll be working on service bay type setups for the landing legs, I'll likely at least work out the geometry for the entire lineup of MFT-LV cargo/service bays at the same time.

So there you have it -- the next 'official' parts will be landing legs and service bays.  Certainly not going to promise any dates or give any time-frames; can only state that those will be the next focus for new part development.

[vossiewulf]

1 hour ago, RedParadize said:

It does and it work. Size is fairly small and for part that have +20 crew its a mess. It might not work for deployable part like the inflatable ring trough.

That's probably the issue, it has no crew slots before it's deployed, so KIS can't patch it. And I'd guess Mage looked at this when he made it and there was no easy way to KIS-patch it after inflation.

Edited November 29, 2017 by vossiewulf

[RedParadize]

32 minutes ago, vossiewulf said:

That's probably the issue, it has no crew slots before it's deployed, so KIS can't patch it. And I'd guess Mage looked at this when he made it and there was no easy way to KIS-patch it after inflation.

Anyway, individual KIS seat storage for part with +10 crew are a nightmare to manage. On that aspect, I prefer to have a dedicated airlock/sas with the proper tool stored there. Its convenient and feel more realistic.

Edited November 29, 2017 by RedParadize

[vossiewulf]

44 minutes ago, RedParadize said:

Anyway, individual KIS seat storage for part with +10 crew are a nightmare to manage. On that aspect, I prefer to have a dedicated airlock/sas with the proper tool stored there. Its convenient and feel more realistic.

That's a good idea. Mage, if you have any interest in doing something about this limitation, that seems to be the best way to go, have an attached airlock be a top/bottom part option, with three or four crew slots... hmm that wouldn't work, same issue of crew slots not existing at patch-time. You'd have to replace top or bottom options with a dedicated airlock. 

Nothing critical here, just something to keep in mind in case you're working on those parts again.

[RedParadize]

7 minutes ago, vossiewulf said:

That's a good idea. Mage, if you have any interest in doing something about this limitation, that seems to be the best way to go, have an attached airlock be a top/bottom part option, with three or four crew slots... hmm that wouldn't work, same issue of crew slots not existing at patch-time. You'd have to replace top or bottom options with a dedicated airlock. 

Nothing critical here, just something to keep in mind in case you're working on those parts again.

Mage is not managing KIS, I am not even sure if he still provide a patch file for it. On the other end, the part you are looking for already exist: Take the smallest hab, change the cap for the one with a airlock and then decide that all your kerbal will now enter/exit from there. The smallest hab have two seat, so enough for the tooling. If you wish, you can add a additional version of that hab that have a larger KIS storage and put replacement part or else in it.

Edited November 29, 2017 by RedParadize

[Nightside]

2 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

(The Probe-core/satellite core series of parts -will- need new models, as I would like something other than 'round' for my satellite buses, so these will likely be done at some point in the future).

Awesome! Looking forward to this, I don't care for round sats either. I went ahead and mashed together a modular probe core based on the octagonal paneled LV tanks and it looks great.

This setup allows for diameter and length to be adjusted, but does not include solar panels or RCS, the main thing I think it lacks is a crinkly foil texture.

Spoiler

//Octagonal Probe core based on paneled LV tanks

//Pretty much just adds moduleCommand to a fuel tank with a few adjustments

PART
{
    module = Part
    name = SSTU-SC-OCTOCORE-LV
    author = TestPart

    TechRequired = start
    entryCost = 16000
    cost = 916
    category = Pods
    subcategory = 0
    title = SSTU - SC-TANK - OctoCore - Expirimental
    manufacturer = SSTU
    description = SSTU - ProbeCore - OctoCore - Expirimental
    tags = Octo probe 

    MODEL
    {
        model = SSTU/Assets/EmptyProxyModel
    }
    rescaleFactor = 1

    // nodes/attachment 
    // node position specification: posX,posY,posZ,axisX,axisY,axisZ,size
    // attachment rules: stack, srfAttach, allowStack, allowSrfAttach, allowCollision
    node_stack_top =  0,0.5,0,0,1,0,2
    node_stack_top2 =  0,0.5,0,0,1,0,2
    node_stack_bottom =  0,-0.5,0,0,-1,0,2
    node_stack_bottom2 =  0,-0.5,0,0,-1,0,2
    node_attach = 0, 0, -0.64, 0, 0.07376, 0.99728, 4
    attachRules = 1,1,1,1,0

    mass = 0.5
    crashTolerance = 7
    maxTemp = 2000
    fuelCrossFeed = True
    breakingForce = 2000
    breakingTorque = 2000
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleCommand
        minimumCrew = 0
        hasHibernation = True
        hibernationMultiplier = 0.002
        RESOURCE
        {
            name = ElectricCharge
            //100 per hour?
            rate = 0.0275
        }
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleSAS
        SASServiceLevel = 3
    }
    MODULE
    { 
        name = ModuleReactionWheel    
        PitchTorque = 2
        YawTorque = 2
        RollTorque = 2    
        RESOURCE
        {
            name = ElectricCharge
            rate = 0.1
        }
    }

    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleScienceContainer    
        reviewActionName = Review Stored Data
        storeActionName = Store Experiments
        collectActionName = Take Stored Data
        evaOnlyStorage = True // i.e. can nearby regular vessels also do this, or EVA only
        storageRange = 2
        canBeTransferredToInVessel = True
        canTransferInVessel = True
        showStatus = True
        allowRepeatedSubjects = True
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleKerbNetAccess
        MinimumFoV = 9
        MaximumFoV = 81
        AnomalyDetection = 0.24
        DISPLAY_MODES
        {
            Mode = Biome
            Mode = Terrain
        }
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleDataTransmitter
        antennaType = INTERNAL
        packetInterval = 1.0
        packetSize = 2
        packetResourceCost = 12.0
        requiredResource = ElectricCharge
        antennaPower = 5000
        optimumRange = 2500
        packetFloor = 0.1
        packetCeiling = 5
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = SSTUVolumeContainer
        volume = 100000
        CONTAINER
        {
            name = Main Tank
            percent = 100
            tankageVolume = 0.30
            tankageMass = 0.30
            defaultModifier = standard
            defaultFuelPreset = LFO
            resource = LiquidFuel
            resource = LqdHydrogen
            resource = Oxidizer
            resource = MonoPropellant
            resource = Aerozine50
            resource = NTO
            resource = ElectricCharge
            resource = XenonGas        
            modifier = standard
        }
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = SSTUModularFuelTank        
        
        currentTankType = MFT-LV-PF-0-0
        currentNoseType = MFT-LV-ADPT-PFS
        currentMountType = MFT-LV-ADPT-PFS
        currentTankDiameter = 1.25
        
        tankDiameterIncrement = 0.625
        minTankDiameter = 0.625
        maxTankDiameter = 0.625
        bottomManagedNodeNames = bottom, bottom2
        topManagedNodeNames = top, top2    
        
        TANKSET
        {
            name = 1.0x
        }
        TANKSET
        {
            name = 2.0x
        }
        TANKSET
        {
            name = 3.0x
        }
        TANKSET
        {
            name = 4.0x
        }
        TANKSET
        {
            name = 5.0x
        }
        

        
        VARIANT
        {
            name = Paneled-Hollow
            nose = MFT-LV-ADPT-PHH
            nose = MFT-LV-ADPT-PHS
            mount = MFT-LV-ADPT-PHH
            mount = MFT-LV-ADPT-PHS
        }
        VARIANT
        {
            name = Paneled-Filled
            nose = MFT-LV-ADPT-PFS
            mount = MFT-LV-ADPT-PFS
        }
        VARIANT
        {
            name = Paneled-Inset
            nose = MFT-LV-ADPT-PIH
            mount = MFT-LV-ADPT-PFS
        }
        VARIANT
        {
            name = Paneled-DoubleInset
            nose = MFT-LV-ADPT-PIH
            mount = MFT-LV-ADPT-PIH
        }
        
        
        //paneled-hollow tanks
        TANK
        {
            name = MFT-LV-PH-0-0
            setName = 1.0x
            variantName = Paneled-Hollow
        }
        TANK
        {
            name = MFT-LV-PH-1-0
            setName = 2.0x
            variantName = Paneled-Hollow
        }
        TANK
        {
            name = MFT-LV-PH-2-0
            setName = 3.0x
            variantName = Paneled-Hollow
        }
        TANK
        {
            name = MFT-LV-PH-3-0
            setName = 4.0x
            variantName = Paneled-Hollow
        }
        TANK
        {
            name = MFT-LV-PH-4-0
            setName = 5.0x
            variantName = Paneled-Hollow
        }
        
        //paneled-filled tanks
        TANK
        {
            name = MFT-LV-PF-0-0
            setName = 1.0x
            variantName = Paneled-Filled
        }
        TANK
        {
            name = MFT-LV-PF-1-0
            setName = 2.0x
            variantName = Paneled-Filled
        }
        TANK
        {
            name = MFT-LV-PF-2-0
            setName = 3.0x
            variantName = Paneled-Filled
        }
        TANK
        {
            name = MFT-LV-PF-3-0
            setName = 4.0x
            variantName = Paneled-Filled
        }
        TANK
        {
            name = MFT-LV-PF-4-0
            setName = 5.0x
            variantName = Paneled-Filled
        }
        
        //paneled-inset tanks
        TANK
        {
            name = MFT-LV-PI-1-0
            setName = 2.0x
            variantName = Paneled-Inset
        }
        TANK
        {
            name = MFT-LV-PI-2-0
            setName = 3.0x
            variantName = Paneled-Inset
        }
        TANK
        {
            name = MFT-LV-PI-3-0
            setName = 4.0x
            variantName = Paneled-Inset
        }
        TANK
        {
            name = MFT-LV-PI-4-0
            setName = 5.0x
            variantName = Paneled-Inset
        }
        
        //paneled-double-inset tanks
        TANK
        {
            name = MFT-LV-PD-2-0
            setName = 3.0x
            variantName = Paneled-DoubleInset
        }
        TANK
        {
            name = MFT-LV-PD-3-0
            setName = 4.0x
            variantName = Paneled-DoubleInset
        }
        TANK
        {
            name = MFT-LV-PD-4-0
            setName = 5.0x
            variantName = Paneled-DoubleInset
        }
        
        
        //paneled adapters
        CAP
        {
            name = MFT-LV-ADPT-PHH
        }
        CAP
        {
            name = MFT-LV-ADPT-PHS
        }
        CAP
        {
            name = MFT-LV-ADPT-PIH
        }
        CAP
        {
            name = MFT-LV-ADPT-PFS
        }
        
        UPGRADES
        {
            UPGRADE
            {
                name__ = SSTU-MFT-D1
                maxTankDiameter = 1.875
            }
            UPGRADE
            {
                name__ = SSTU-MFT-D2
                maxTankDiameter = 2.5
            }
            UPGRADE
            {
                name__ = SSTU-MFT-D3
                maxTankDiameter = 3.125
            }
            UPGRADE
            {
                name__ = SSTU-MFT-D4
                maxTankDiameter = 3.75
            }
            UPGRADE
            {
                name__ = SSTU-MFT-D5
                maxTankDiameter = 6.25
            }
            UPGRADE
            {
                name__ = SSTU-MFT-D6
                maxTankDiameter = 10
            }
            UPGRADE
            {
                name__ = SSTU-MFT-M1
                minTankDiameter = 0.625
            }
        }
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = SSTUResourceBoiloff
        //only the first two stats are normally used, rest are loaded from VolumeContainer if present; but configurable for use on stock tanks or whatever
        boiloffLostModifier = 1
        boiloffCostModifier = 1
        activeInsulationPercent = 0
        activeECCost = 1
        activeInsulationPrevention = 1
        inactiveInsulationPrevention = 0
        passiveInsulationPrevention = 0
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleToggleCrossfeed
        toggleFlight = true
        toggleEditor = true
        //TODO propogation settings?
    }
}
 

 

 

I think an ideal satellite bus part would mostly remix features of your existing modules (Station, MFT, MUS).

-In-editor Shape switching: (circular/spherical, square, hex, octoganal)

-Configurable Length and diameter and contents (like MFT, but with a much lower fuel fraction assuming there are extra computers and insulation and what not inside.)

-Configurable solar (like modularStation, but attachment points would need to scale with diameter changes)

-Configurable RCS (like MUS, but possible with a top and bottom ring)

-Configurable caps that would include a few truss options.

-And of course texture switching so you can have a foil or rigid shell.

-It should not include engines, science or antenna models, as these are too mission specific and affected by other mods to try to include.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2017 by Nightside
imgur - more like im-grrr

[RedParadize]

@Nightside That's cool! I will try that tonight!

[tater]

 

Posted for the shine...

[RedParadize]

@tater Strange that they chose that picture, that's a quite old one. Solar panel are no more oriented like this, too much drag. We can see the shadow of the space shuttle... which is very telling.

[Shadowmage]

Few minutes while bored at work... testing out various geometry/rigging setups for the LC-LEG parts.  Keep in mind these are specifically intended for use with the MFT-LV fuel tanks, and as such, their geometry -will- be specialized a bit in order to fit in better with those parts.

This is just the first concept/prototype, likely the first of many, but it is workable as-is.

On most/all of the landing leg designs I'm going to make one of the telescoping sections 'user controlled', and not part of the standard animation setup.  This should allow for a much finer level of control over the resultant height.  The prototype above has 3 telescoping sections.  The topmost/outer will obviously not move.  The center/middle telescoping section will be user controlled, and not part of the suspension action (perfectly rigid).  The lowest telescoping section would be the 'active suspension', and will be the portion that moves according to suspension compression.

Likely will require some additional support to be added to KSPWheel for the user-controlled portions... but that has been on my 'TODO' list for KSPWheel for quite awhile already, and has at least a few other planned uses.

[Cheesecake]

Is there a way to add more fuel to the tanks respectively multiply the content by 1.5 per .cfg?

[Shadowmage]

Just now, Cheesecake said:

Is there a way to add more fuel to the tanks respectively multiply the content by 1.5 per .cfg?

Only if you've found some way to compress liquids?

(yes it is possible, but not easy, and it will have all sorts of strange side-effects)

I just have to ask... why?

[RedParadize]

1 hour ago, Shadowmage said:

Only if you've found some way to compress liquids?

(yes it is possible, but not easy, and it will have all sorts of strange side-effects)

I just have to ask... why?

Deep cryogenics. Its about 10% density increase for LOX if I remember correctly. For other fuel I do not know, some gas would likely benefit more from this.

Edit: I forgot to mention, if your sub cooled liquid is allowed to chill, it will expand. Kinda of a bad thing if your tank are full! 

Edited November 30, 2017 by RedParadize

[RedParadize]

2 hours ago, Cheesecake said:

Is there a way to add more fuel to the tanks respectively multiply the content by 1.5 per .cfg?

Two choice:

1: If you want a specific content to be smaller you can edit ResourceVolumes.cfg end reduce ressource volume.

2: The other option is to change tank type capacity, you can edit VolumeContainerData.cfg change a existing or create a new SSTU_CONTAINERTYPE. Keep in mind that if you create a new one you will have to edit the part config as well to add this type as a option.

I did that in the past, but not for greater volume. I added a lightweight heat resistant tank. Damage sensitive, super expensive but heat resistant while being somewhere between the Standard and light in term of mass. Basically the perfect tank of future reusable rocket.

Edited November 30, 2017 by RedParadize