A Thread for Writers to talk about Writing

[KSK]

6 hours ago, The Space Dino said:

What do you guys here think on what stories people would like to read? Because I've been writing a story of my stock career mode, and apart from 2 likes nothing else has happened. Any suggestions?

It's not terribly helpful I'm afraid but I'd say - write something that you'd want to read. I've seen all sorts of stories get a readership here, so the chances are pretty good that other folks would also want to read that too. And if you're writing for yourself you'll find it much easier to keep writing.

Also - personal opinion here - but writing stories about Career games is hard simply because most of your readers have probably also played at least one such game themselves. Thus they'll already have a good idea where your story is going - or they'll think they will - before they even start.

So you'll need add a twist somewhere. Doesn't need to be a big one, just something to surprise your readers and make your story a little bit different to the Career games they've already played. Check out the Fanworks Library (pinned thread) for some examples of what other writers have done if you need a bit of inspiration. 

Above all - good luck and enjoy yourself!

[Mister Dilsby]

On 11/1/2016 at 0:08 PM, DarkOwl57 said:

Could someone look over my story that I'm writing? Here's the link:

21 hours ago, steuben said:

Placing this one up for comment.

Welcome to the thread folks! The Grand Council of Elder Arbiters Of All Forum Storydom (GCEAOAFS) will read your tales and provide detailed critique and a clear roadmap for how to become the new most popular, most liked story on the Forum! --So OK of course there is no such thing   All we really have is each other--so while you're waiting for someone to give your work a critique, maybe take the time to read someone else's and offer some helpful hints  

7 hours ago, The Space Dino said:

What do you guys here think on what stories people would like to read? Because I've been writing a story of my stock career mode, and apart from 2 likes nothing else has happened. Any suggestions?

Yeah, I agree with @KSK--we are all playing the same game. It's hard to get people interested in Yet Another Mission Log (YAML), especially in a text-only story. Or maybe this is just my personal preference--I admit I don't really read a lot of the text-only stories on here, even the good ones  The ones that are straight-up mission reports don't interest me. Why should I spend time reading about something I've done myself? The few exceptions are the ones that give a really novel (yet faithful to shared canon!) take on the classic characters and situations we all face in the game. The ones that are NOT a straight-up mission report, e.g. stories putting Kerbals in interstellar ships for some kind of Ender's Game shoot-em-up--well, those don't interest me too much either. I come here to deepen and broaden my KSP playing experience, and stuff that will never happen in my game just doesn't do that for me.

But hey, I've said it before, I have a short attention span--that's why I do comics   And maybe a lot of other people have short attention spans as well. I think that in general a thread with pictures will get more attention than a thread with just text...if you don't believe me, just look at the ridiculously large number under my avatar (or @Just Jim's, or @Parkaboy's, @Geschosskopf's etc.  ) 

[0111narwhalz]

26 minutes ago, Kuzzter said:

stories putting Kerbals in interstellar ships for some kind of Ender's Game shoot-em-up--well, those don't interest me too much either.

Aww...

[adsii1970]

On 10/7/2016 at 1:52 PM, CatastrophicFailure said:

I was noticing that too. Looks like we're back to naming Kerbals the old fashioned way. 

I just let the system choose my characters' names. It is more fun that way. After all, who doesn't like Thompberry, Alddread, Kerny, Mertrey, and Doodemone?

8 hours ago, The Space Dino said:

What do you guys here think on what stories people would like to read? Because I've been writing a story of my stock career mode, and apart from 2 likes nothing else has happened. Any suggestions?

Don't worry so much about what others want to read. One of the things I do is I let the characters tell their own story, so to speak. There are chapters in mine that I think suck that others will send me comments, telling me that the chapter was awesome! I saw someone also mentioned write frequently - and while this is also good advice it can become a ball and chain for you. If you do not feel like writing a particular day, then DON'T! You'll fight your storylines, you'll fight your basic instincts, and you'll end up making a mess of what you've already written. Who cares if you take a couple of weeks off between chapters? I have a small following with mine, but those readers know I also have a busy schedule and respect it.

[KSK]

52 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

If you do not feel like writing a particular day, then DON'T! You'll fight your storylines, you'll fight your basic instincts, and you'll end up making a mess of what you've already written. Who cares if you take a couple of weeks off between chapters? I have a small following with mine, but those readers know I also have a busy schedule and respect it.

On a related note - and this is probably highly dependent on how you write - if you do want to write on a particular day but you're just beating your head against the page trying to make the words happen, try skipping ahead a chapter or two. Stories are usually best read from beginning to end (in that order  ) but nothing says they have to be written that way too.

I've found that to be a useful trick on a couple of occasions when writing First Flight - and umm, to the poor patient souls waiting for the next chapter - the good news is that the final chapter is flowing well and shaping up nicely. Unlike the next chronological chapter, the writing of which is currently much like dragging a dead horse through soft sand.

Edited November 3, 2016 by KSK

[Mister Dilsby]

1 hour ago, 0111narwhalz said:

Aww...

Sorry! I'm a terrible person, I know, I know.  But I will say that this line in the beginning of Warped Stars really grabbed me, way back when (emphasis mine):

"That's just the thing, Bill. That was the whole charm of the space program! Without explosions, who wants to watch? Without the noise, who wants to fly?" He watched the giant freighter rise slowly in the dry air. Its groans quieted once it had lifted several meters into the air. The air once more became silent. Jeb shivered. "This thing's unnatural."

...excellent subversion, with faithfulness to shared canon, of Our Hero Jeb! Told in a truly efficient and visual style. I just haven't kept up with it, but now that I read this again and see how good it is, I should give it another go  

[Ten Key]

On 11/1/2016 at 10:08 AM, DarkOwl57 said:

Could someone look over my story that I'm writing? 

Quote

 Jeb gave a few short breaths, before launching the plane. He saw 4 enemy targets with 2 ally craft, making the odds 4-3. However, with Jeb flying, it was more like 4-5. His plane lifted up nicely, and he began the fight.

I think this post is relevant here. 

You need to put blank lines (carriage returns for us old people  ) between your paragraphs. Paragraph indents are appropriate for printed works, but they make a mess on web based formats. 

Quote

This is sooooo humiliating, Jeb thought as he strapped into the plane that he hadn’t flown in who knows how long.

Do you need that "Jeb thought" there? You have an awful lot of "Jeb said, Gene said, Jeb thought, etc, etc" spread throughout your story. Can you give the reader enough context to determine the speaker without resorting to telling them outright? 

Some of your scenes seem awfully short. Do you need them? Can you cut them? If you find they are serving an important function, can you fill them out, or possibly save just that pertinent bit and add it into a longer scene?

Finally, something to think about. . .why are you writing this? It is normal for writers to not have an answer to that question when they start working on something, but as the writing progresses at some point there should be an "ah ha" moment that turns "goofing around" into an actual project. So, as you read back over what you've written, and as you move forward with new chapters, just have in the back of your mind "Why am I writing this?" Eventually something will click, and when it does, that's when the magic really starts.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Ten Key

[DarkOwl57]

4 hours ago, Ten Key said:

Finally, something to think about. . .why are you writing this? 

Well......... uuuhhh......... Hang on a second. *Sifts through brain to find the 'Reasons for...' folder*

Well,

1) I really like writing and I do it in my free time a lot.

2) I have to find something to do.

3) I wanted to make my millions of fighter jets that I have made to have some sort of story to go along with them.

4) Just cause really. (Just Cause 4: Writing Edition (Coming to stores near you this Spring))

5) @Draconiator inspired me, and I just really wanted to write something people enjoyed.

[Cydonian Monk]

On 11/4/2016 at 7:28 AM, DarkOwl57 said:

Well......... uuuhhh......... Hang on a second. *Sifts through brain to find the 'Reasons for...' folder*

To paraphrase Stephen King: "We are writers, and we never ask one another why; we know we don't know."

 

The most important advice I can give is to not stop writing. In a year or two you might read some of what you've written and think it's dreadfully bad. It wasn't, at least not to you when wrote it. It's just a year or two from now you'll have a better idea of how to write. How to build. How to phrase things such that more people will want to read them. Such that you will want to read them.

"This Sentence Has Five Words" is one of the most remarkable things I've read about writing. It's a short little paragraph that, in its simplicity, drives home an excellent point about structure. It makes me want to buy copies of Gary Provost's books to see what other gems lie hidden inside. It makes me question life. What if five is enough? Should we use six instead? Even when avoided it works. And yet it doesn't work. Did I cheat just there? When I used six words? One hidden in a contraction? Does it matter? What about three? Or four? And what about two? Too many questions.

 

As to "The Second Great War" - I'm only a short way into it, but I agree with @Ten Key's first comment regarding context. Jeb did. Jeb said. Jeb thought. It's a structure that I'm guilty of using, something I used at near felonious levels in the past. He thought. He said. He did. Sometimes when the context is obvious you don't even need the ambiguous pronouns. The sentence can be inferred to be the thoughts and actions of the character at that time, assuming that character is the point of view. Sometimes even when the character is not the point of view. Point of view is, I think, part of the problem.

Allusion and foreshadowing are nice if they support the story. Sometimes even as red herrings they're nice. They will lead readers off into blind corners where the author can gank them and steal their wallet. Ex: The dogfight in the simulator in the first chapter would make for nice foreshadowing..... That could've played out well in Chapter 4.

Don't fight against the forum's chosen typeface and formatting - that way leads only to frustration. The Web format vs Print format debate is something to consider, and I think your writing is a perfect example of why we need both and need to keep both separate. Even then the print-style formatting of your later chapters is easier to read than the earlier ones.

Your paragraphs are getting longer the more you write, which is good. Generally you should have _more_ sentences per paragraph. One example: the "Time: 09:15 Hours, Location: Jeb’s Office, Riverside, NSK" section of your first chapter would read easier if it was only three paragraphs, or possibly two.

As your story isn't a standard Mission Report, per se, it might be best to describe more and talk less. Those of us with pictures can cheat as we don't need to spend 1,000 words describing a particular aircraft. With the need for more description comes a need for fewer filler words. Less set dressing. Chekov wasn't wrong when he said the gun had better go off at some point in the story. Let the powder fly, but only if the shot serves some end. Describe the important things. The M-1. The M-13. The K-1. How do these planes look? Work that into the text.

Keep going. I can't promise I'll be able to read all of it, but I'll check in from time to time. It's already reading a little better in Chapter 15. (Yes, I skipped ahead a bit....)

 

What I don't want to do is tell you to follow conventions, even though I've done mostly that. Conventions exist for good reasons, yes, but if everything is conventional then nothing ever gets our attention. Some conventions are good: One speaker per quote per paragraph. Some conventions are debatable: The Oxford Comma.

Some of my favorite writing throws standards and conventions out of the window. Ex: There's a sequence early in "Brave New World" where the focus of one chapter shifts between several different scenes. This accelerates throughout the chapter, each visit to each scene using fewer and fewer words until each scene is just one or two words. It feels like reading a whirlwind, and is a brilliant piece of writing by Huxley. And entirely unconventional, especially for when it was written.

[KSK]

On 2 November 2016 at 5:09 PM, steuben said:

Placing this one up for comment.

 

To use the forum idiom - moar?

I love your scenes. The dialogue is spot on, there's a real sense of time and place and, as with all your writing, an artfully sketched out backdrop that really conveys the sense of a whole world out there beyond that immediate scene just waiting to be revealed.

I know all too well that writing can be a real time commitment but if you ever decided to try anything longer (perhaps you already have?) then point me at it! You write stuff I would pay to read.

[steuben]

Some more stuff in a different 'verse. But, it is my early work... and it shows that. Dang... if you can get through some of the weird punctuation, word choices, and the lack of capitals they should still be good. Dang, I needed an editor. Still do but Word gets me through most of it.

In, I think, decreasing length... 

http://207.244.96.64/PlaneShift/smf/index.php?topic=11373, Steuben and the Refugees.

http://207.244.96.64/PlaneShift/smf/index.php?topic=27453, Invasion and Love

http://207.244.96.64/PlaneShift/smf/index.php?topic=40999, Shadows in the dark

http://207.244.96.64/PlaneShift/smf/index.php?topic=22480, A Choice

 

 

[DarkOwl57]

On 11/5/2016 at 4:40 PM, Cydonian Monk said:

To paraphrase Stephen King: "We are writers, and we never ask one another why; we know we don't know."

 

The most important advice I can give is to not stop writing. In a year or two you might read some of what you've written and think it's dreadfully bad. It wasn't, at least not to you when wrote it. It's just a year or two from now you'll have a better idea of how to write. How to build. How to phrase things such that more people will want to read them. Such that you will want to read them.

"This Sentence Has Five Words" is one of the most remarkable things I've read about writing. It's a short little paragraph that, in its simplicity, drives home an excellent point about structure. It makes me want to buy copies of Gary Provost's books to see what other gems lie hidden inside. It makes me question life. What if five is enough? Should we use six instead? Even when avoided it works. And yet it doesn't work. Did I cheat just there? When I used six words? One hidden in a contraction? Does it matter? What about three? Or four? And what about two? Too many questions.

 

As to "The Second Great War" - I'm only a short way into it, but I agree with @Ten Key's first comment regarding context. Jeb did. Jeb said. Jeb thought. It's a structure that I'm guilty of using, something I used at near felonious levels in the past. He thought. He said. He did. Sometimes when the context is obvious you don't even need the ambiguous pronouns. The sentence can be inferred to be the thoughts and actions of the character at that time, assuming that character is the point of view. Sometimes even when the character is not the point of view. Point of view is, I think, part of the problem.

Allusion and foreshadowing are nice if they support the story. Sometimes even as red herrings they're nice. They will lead readers off into blind corners where the author can gank them and steal their wallet. Ex: The dogfight in the simulator in the first chapter would make for nice foreshadowing..... That could've played out well in Chapter 4.

Don't fight against the forum's chosen typeface and formatting - that way leads only to frustration. The Web format vs Print format debate is something to consider, and I think your writing is a perfect example of why we need both and need to keep both separate. Even then the print-style formatting of your later chapters is easier to read than the earlier ones.

Your paragraphs are getting longer the more you write, which is good. Generally you should have _more_ sentences per paragraph. One example: the "Time: 09:15 Hours, Location: Jeb’s Office, Riverside, NSK" section of your first chapter would read easier if it was only three paragraphs, or possibly two.

As your story isn't a standard Mission Report, per se, it might be best to describe more and talk less. Those of us with pictures can cheat as we don't need to spend 1,000 words describing a particular aircraft. With the need for more description comes a need for fewer filler words. Less set dressing. Chekov wasn't wrong when he said the gun had better go off at some point in the story. Let the powder fly, but only if the shot serves some end. Describe the important things. The M-1. The M-13. The K-1. How do these planes look? Work that into the text.

Keep going. I can't promise I'll be able to read all of it, but I'll check in from time to time. It's already reading a little better in Chapter 15. (Yes, I skipped ahead a bit....)

 

What I don't want to do is tell you to follow conventions, even though I've done mostly that. Conventions exist for good reasons, yes, but if everything is conventional then nothing ever gets our attention. Some conventions are good: One speaker per quote per paragraph. Some conventions are debatable: The Oxford Comma.

Some of my favorite writing throws standards and conventions out of the window. Ex: There's a sequence early in "Brave New World" where the focus of one chapter shifts between several different scenes. This accelerates throughout the chapter, each visit to each scene using fewer and fewer words until each scene is just one or two words. It feels like reading a whirlwind, and is a brilliant piece of writing by Huxley. And entirely unconventional, especially for when it was written.

Wow..... Thanks.

That was way deeper then I thought it would be lol

[Findthepin1]

I wrote this for a writing prompt on Reddit. We had to use 3 or less e's in an apocalyptic story.

Spoiler

All is now dust of what was our world, all but two human survivors in low orbit of it, and a significant population on its only moon, Luna.

"Oh, look," says Jim, staring out a window, "look at it."

"Look at what?" Chad asks.

"The world."

"Can't find it. Turn us around a bit so I can look. "

"No. Nonono. You can't look. It's all in bits now. That's what I was talking about, saying 'Look,' and all that."

"Oh."

"…Why?" Chad asks again.

“I don’t know. Why would I know? Ask Mr. Narrator."

“Mr. what?"

"Oh. Nothing," Jim said. "C'mon, all of humanity is waiting for us. Last survivors. How long until the Hohmann burn?"

Chad floats to a clock, grabs it, looks at a list, grabs that too, and shows both to Jim. Jim and Chad talk about it and do math in Chad's calculator, and Jim and Chad will now wait for a burn window.

...Thus begins civilization.

Edit: made edits to both copies of the story. 

Edited November 8, 2016 by Findthepin1

[Mister Dilsby]

2 minutes ago, Findthepin1 said:

I wrote this for a writing prompt on Reddit. We had to use 3 or less e's in an apocalyptic story.

 

Wow, that's an interesting challenge! I passed three "e"s in my first sentence of this post! I guess it pretty much forces present tense, eh?

[Findthepin1]

2 minutes ago, Kuzzter said:

Wow, that's an interesting challenge! I passed three "e"s in my first sentence of this post! I guess it pretty much forces present tense, eh?

Thanks! Yeah it does. No way around that that I've found, but present tense works. 

[steuben]

Given that no "e" in a full novel has only been done twice says a few things about the English language. I can't imagine that only three "e"s in a short story is any easier. Though I wonder if other languages have an equivalent letter.

The closest I've ever done has been 14,000 words with only one named character. Almost made it too, a second name slipped in during a conversation. Wasn't really able to iron it out.

 

[DarkOwl57]

On 11/5/2016 at 4:40 PM, Cydonian Monk said:

Don't fight against the forum's chosen typeface and formatting - that way leads only to frustration. The Web format vs Print format debate is something to consider, and I think your writing is a perfect example of why we need both and need to keep both separate. Even then the print-style formatting of your later chapters is easier to read than the earlier ones.

I tried to use the type of font to sort of do like a computer-screen animation thing; Kinda like what military movies have at the bottom of the screen.

[steuben]

Cathode ray green on white seldom works. Without an image for definition it works best on a black background. Same thing for cathode ray amber. I don't think there is a good way of doing that visual, like they have in "Hunt for Red October" or the opening to "Ghost in the Shell", in pure text.  

Most times that I have seen that kind of place and date indication it has been left justified and in a different font and different style, for example bolded Courier New when everything else is in basic Arial. You want to approach it like using the word said.

 

 

[DarkOwl57]

19 hours ago, steuben said:

Cathode ray green on white seldom works. Without an image for definition it works best on a black background. Same thing for cathode ray amber. I don't think there is a good way of doing that visual, like they have in "Hunt for Red October" or the opening to "Ghost in the Shell", in pure text.  

Most times that I have seen that kind of place and date indication it has been left justified and in a different font and different style, for example bolded Courier New when everything else is in basic Arial. You want to approach it like using the word said.

 

 

Maybe I could change the color from green to.... maybe Red or Black?

[steuben]

Yes, the black works better.

[KSK]

On 6 November 2016 at 0:13 AM, steuben said:

Some more stuff in a different 'verse. But, it is my early work... and it shows that. Dang... if you can get through some of the weird punctuation, word choices, and the lack of capitals they should still be good. Dang, I needed an editor. Still do but Word gets me through most of it.

In, I think, decreasing length... 

http://207.244.96.64/PlaneShift/smf/index.php?topic=11373, Steuben and the Refugees.

http://207.244.96.64/PlaneShift/smf/index.php?topic=27453, Invasion and Love

http://207.244.96.64/PlaneShift/smf/index.php?topic=40999, Shadows in the dark

http://207.244.96.64/PlaneShift/smf/index.php?topic=22480, A Choice

 

 

Heard the tune. Danced the dance...

[steuben]

I'm playing with indirect speech with this one. Don't know if I've gotten it. I'm going for anonymous voices in the crowd.

[0111narwhalz]

8 hours ago, steuben said:

I'm playing with indirect speech with this one. Don't know if I've gotten it. I'm going for anonymous voices in the crowd.

The speech looks good, the writing works well, but one thing in particular threw me off:

Quote

Chapter 15

Huh? What about the other 14?

 

And now, I'd appreciate some critique on my newest chapter [9] of Warped Stars. It felt a little awkward while I was writing it, but that could just be me looking too hard.

Edited November 16, 2016 by 0111narwhalz

[steuben]

Three of the other 14 are posted around. I've got 16 written on paper. Which are in various states of editing and thought. But, yeah I should insert a forward and back link in them.

 

The high-g test felt off, but I don't know if it just a difference in personal styles. I'll have to chew on it relative to the other chapters.
Additional: i think that if you recast that section using short sentences, and then have a long one at the end it might work better.

 

Edited November 16, 2016 by steuben

[KSK]

3 hours ago, steuben said:

The high-g test felt off, but I don't know if it just a difference in personal styles. I'll have to chew on it relative to the other chapters.

I thought that too but I think it's just a bit repetitious. @0111narwhalz - the opening paragraph might flow a bit better if you took out a couple of 'the sled's? The rest of the chapter was great!