A Thread for Writers to talk about Writing

[Just Jim]

32 minutes ago, Ehco Corrallo said:

....but quality is pretty much out the window.

Exactly, and that would be my biggest issue. I'm not saying it's not a good idea, I'm just afraid if it was me, after a point I'd just be babbling, and not writing. As for writing 30,000 or 50,000 words, sure. I just checked and Emiko Station is now officially at 126,600 words, so I know I can write that much, and then some. But I usually need a week or two to really flesh out and develop a chapter in my head before I write it down. 

[Spaceception]

6 hours ago, Just Jim said:

Oh, Ouch!!!  lmao

OK, back on-topic.... I never did comment back on NaNoWriMo .

The reason I found it so astounding is I put in context of writing Emiko Station. Lately my chapters average 2,500 - 3,000 words... more or less. Which means to complete the NaNoWriMo, I'd have to write a chapter a day for 18-20 days. And right now I'm lucky if I write more than one chapter in 18-20 days... lol.

It's really impressive, and I'm not sure I could maintain that pace...so again... massive respect to anyone that can!  

 

I'm doing camp NaNo, and it's hard, I was only able to keep that pace for 2 weeks where I wrote ~35.5k words from April 1st to April April 14th, where I got REALLY stuck on chapter 17, since then I've written around 3k words total, and I'm still trying to pick up the slack.

Before I pushed myself for NaNo, I finished around 2-3k words every week or so, but I have a lot of free time, so it'd be a lot less if I had a job.

[0111narwhalz]

Hey, do you guys remember that little panic back in November? The one about the loss of a kerbal name generator? No?
Huh. Looks like I have a solution in need of a problem.

^{(Check out KSPNameGen in my sig! Up-to-date as of 1.2-ish, capable of...well, you can read all that at its page.)}

[DarkOwl57]

If anyone wants to take a look at this? I think it's okay (Compared to my first stories (*Shudder*)) But I still could use some feedback. Thanks, Dark.

[0111narwhalz]

At long last, a new chapter [10] of Warped Stars!

I'd like some feedback on this one.
(Actual spoiler below.)

Spoiler

I've not done any crashes before. Now, this one isn't a typical crash because of the gel, but it's still a crash.

 

[ZooNamedGames]

New concept in mind;

Go for it or not? Since I recently started another series which died quickly and honestly without feedback I can't commit seeing as I don't know which direction to improve and progress. Story will exist but I know it will break _{down without some commentary.}

Anyway; should I got with my new Scrubs style KSP series or continued with Spoiled?

[KSK]

15 hours ago, 0111narwhalz said:

At long last, a new chapter [10] of Warped Stars!

I'd like some feedback on this one.
(Actual spoiler below.)

  Reveal hidden contents

I've not done any crashes before. Now, this one isn't a typical crash because of the gel, but it's still a crash.

 

Spoiler

 

It was a good crash in that Jeb only survived thanks to the two technologies (Kraken drive and acceleration gel) that had been the focus of the story up till then. So that part tied in very nicely. I also liked the way Jeb handled the emergency and his calm under pressure. One thing that might have helped is a little more description of the Drive finally punking out. There was that odd (and very loud) snapping noise but maybe something a bit more visual to go with it (as seen from the outside) or a more description of breaking machinery (as heard by Jeb). Did the Drive simply tear free from its mount and go zooming off, or did its internal parts break under the strain?

But this is really picking very small nits. Overall I thought it worked very well!

 

 

[KSK]

3 hours ago, ZooNamedGames said:

New concept in mind;

Go for it or not? Since I recently started another series which died quickly and honestly without feedback I can't commit seeing as I don't know which direction to improve and progress. Story will exist but I know it will break _{down without some commentary.}

Anyway; should I got with my new Scrubs style KSP series or continued with Spoiled?

I would say start your Scrubs style series offline and if you find you're enjoying writing it, then share it on the forum. However, if you honestly feel that the story will break down without commentary then - and I don't wish to be callous - I would save yourself some time and not bother. At least not for now.

As you've already noticed, this is not a forum that delivers much feedback. Even if you're in the happy position where folks are commenting on your work, those comments can cover a whole gamut of topics, ranging from off-topic debates on very small parts of the story (just ask @Kuzzter about recoil   ), to two word requests for 'moar' to speculation on where the story is going next. Usually the comments are a lot of fun (speaking from fortunate personal experience) but they very rarely offer much detailed feedback. Of course, having that tangible proof that people are reading and enjoying your work can be feedback enough.

Your own work is particularly challenging in that regard because its very different to most of the other stories on here and doesn't really touch on space travel much. I would personally regard that as a strength - I'm all for variety and for exploring what the kerbals get up to when they're not flying rockets - but this is the Kerbal Space Program forum, so any writing that's not about space is, I think, going to find it much harder to find a readership.

Finally, a general comment on feedback and knowing which direction to improve and progress.

Feedback is an invaluable tool for improvement but  its an awful tool for showing you how to progress. At the end of the day, its your story and your vision for that story that counts. Ask a group of people where you should be going next and you'll likely get n different opinions, all of them different and most of them flatly contradictory. Which isn't much help at all. Or, put another way, stories are rarely written by committee.

It's also very easy to over-use feedback and become paralysed by it. "Is this bit OK? How can I improve this bit? What about this next bit?" That sort of line by line, micro-feedback of a work in progress is really difficult to give because the person giving feedback has almost no context for offering useful opinions. They don't know how the story is meant to go, they don't know whether that character is written that way on purpose, they don't know whether that apparently dangling plot thread is going to go anywhere.

It can also be very difficult to offer comments on how to improve a work as opposed to just making it different. I've faced that particular conundrum as the person giving and receiving feedback on writing.

 I've said it before on this thread but 'perfect is the enemy of good enough'. Get the words down as well as you can, accept that you're still in a learning phase (and likely will be for much of your writing career) and don't beat yourself up about it. It happens - it happens to everyone. If you asked any writer whether they were 100% happy with anything they'd written, I'm betting that almost none of them would be. There's always room for another edit.

And the best part is, by getting those words down as best you can - you will improve. It takes work but you will find your own style and your own voice. And it will be a much more coherent, flowing and eloquent voice than it would by trying to please each and every one of your well-meaning critics along the way.

OK, that went on waaay longer than I though. Hope some of it was useful but here endeth the essay.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2017 by KSK

[NSEP]

I started writing short stories, i think im going to stick to short stories for a while. Before growing bigger.

 

[DarkOwl57]

I love how everyone's helping the people besides me XD

[Just Jim]

1 hour ago, DarkOwl57 said:

I love how everyone's helping the people besides me XD

Honestly, I like what you're writing, and I don't see where you really need much help... just keep doing what you're doing... 

 

6 hours ago, ZooNamedGames said:

I recently started another series which died quickly and honestly without feedback I can't commit seeing as I don't know which direction to improve and progress. Story will exist but I know it will break _{down without some commentary.}

 

3 hours ago, KSK said:

As you've already noticed, this is not a forum that delivers much feedback. Even if you're in the happy position where folks are commenting on your work, those comments can cover a whole gamut of topics, ranging from off-topic debates on very small parts of the story (just ask @Kuzzter about recoil   ), to two word requests for 'moar' to speculation on where the story is going next. Usually the comments are a lot of fun (speaking from fortunate personal experience) but they very rarely offer much detailed feedback. Of course, having that tangible proof that people are reading and enjoying your work can be feedback enough.

I get what you're saying @ZooNamedGames. There have been many times I've written something I was worried went way too far... like putting Thompberry's brain in a jar, or deciding Magic Boulders can self-generate a small wormhole and travel thru it.... or turning a Kerbal into a humanoid, and back again... Every time I do something like this, I worry about how people might react, and if I might lose a few because it's gotten a little too campy. 

But at this point, I get almost no feedback anymore on Emiko Station, unless I goof up something. I get lots of really nice comments and replies, and I love those, they let me know people are enjoying it and having fun.

But actual, critical, feedback is really rare.... and I just look at it as "no news is good news". If the view count is still going up, and people aren't being overly critical of what I'm writing, or how it's being written, then I figure I must be doing something right.

[KSK]

1 hour ago, DarkOwl57 said:

I love how everyone's helping the people besides me XD

Heya @DarkOwl57.

I've only read the first couple of chapters but nice job! Was a little wary of the title since out-and-out war stories aren't really my thing - but your writing style is really improving! I'll be finishing this one for sure.

Also, I just read your comment about having a headful of ideas for later chapters. There's no harm in writing chapters out of sequence - I do it quite often if I'm stuck on one part of my story and just want to push on through to the next really awesome bit (actual awesomeness may vary  ). At the very least, scribble out a chapter summary so you have some notes to refer to later and free up some brain space in the process!

[adsii1970]

Just now, Just Jim said:

I get what you're saying @ZooNamedGames. There have been many times I've written something I was worried went way too far... like putting Thompberry's brain in a jar, or deciding Magic Boulders can self-generate a small wormhole and travel thru it.... or turning a Kerbal into a humanoid, and back again... Every time I do something like this, I worry about how people might react, and if I might lose a few because it's gotten a little too campy. 

But at this point, I get almost no feedback anymore on Emiko Station, unless I goof up something. I get lots of really nice comments and replies, and I love those, they let me know people are enjoying it and having fun.

But actual, critical, feedback is really rare.... and I just look at it as "no news is good news". If the view count is still going up, and people aren't being overly critical of what I'm writing, or how it's being written, then I figure I must be doing something right.

Exactly - after all, in my fan-fic, I've done something no one else has done as far as I know - Jebediah is under investigation and may be heading to a courts-martial. I do like getting feedback and take each comment seriously. I also am beginning to pick up new readers - and this is always good.

One of the problems I have is I have so many ideas for the story line that I sometimes have a hard decision committing to any one until I actually begin outlining the chapter.

[DarkOwl57]

49 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

Honestly, I like what you're writing, and I don't see where you really need much help... just keep doing what you're doing... 

37 minutes ago, KSK said:

Heya @DarkOwl57.

I've only read the first couple of chapters but nice job! Was a little wary of the title since out-and-out war stories aren't really my thing - but your writing style is really improving! I'll be finishing this one for sure.

Also, I just read your comment about having a headful of ideas for later chapters. There's no harm in writing chapters out of sequence - I do it quite often if I'm stuck on one part of my story and just want to push on through to the next really awesome bit (actual awesomeness may vary  ). At the very least, scribble out a chapter summary so you have some notes to refer to later and free up some brain space in the process!

Thanks! The writing's gonna get a bit choppy in the next couple of days. I'm typing up Civil War on a school computer (MacBook Air) and because it's the end of the school year, they're taking ours up for the summer. They're starting on Monday, so I'm going to maybe get out Chapter 19- If that far. 

[adsii1970]

9 minutes ago, DarkOwl57 said:

Thanks! The writing's gonna get a bit choppy in the next couple of days. I'm typing up Civil War on a school computer (MacBook Air) and because it's the end of the school year, they're taking ours up for the summer. They're starting on Monday, so I'm going to maybe get out Chapter 19- If that far. 

The good thing about the forum software is it allows for log-in anywhere. Most public libraries will allow you to use a computer for up to an hour at a time. This would give you an opportunity to still keep up your story even though you don't have the access to your own computer.

Also, you could use note cards or a notebook to outline each chapter you're planning. This way, you have an idea of where you want to go before you actually go and use the library computer. This saves me (as I do this) valuable time instead of doing the ceiling tile stare as you try to figure out which thing you want to write about next.  With the next chapter I post, I will include a picture of the note cards I've used for that chapter - if you're interested - but mainly for you to see it doesn't have to be anything formal.

Just a couple of ideas...

 

[DarkOwl57]

3 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

The good thing about the forum software is it allows for log-in anywhere. Most public libraries will allow you to use a computer for up to an hour at a time. This would give you an opportunity to still keep up your story even though you don't have the access to your own computer.

Also, you could use note cards or a notebook to outline each chapter you're planning. This way, you have an idea of where you want to go before you actually go and use the library computer. This saves me (as I do this) valuable time instead of doing the ceiling tile stare as you try to figure out which thing you want to write about next.  With the next chapter I post, I will include a picture of the note cards I've used for that chapter - if you're interested - but mainly for you to see it doesn't have to be anything formal.

Just a couple of ideas...

 

Well I've got a Toshiba at home. However, due to the fact I'm using ApplePages, the fonts are different between that and Word. I don't- oh wait that's right... The forums fonts are messed up.... Well never mind then lol 

[0111narwhalz]

Note that there's no guarantee of continuity between drafts on computer A and computer B.

Also, why are you writing on two incompatible formats in the first place?

[adsii1970]

10 minutes ago, 0111narwhalz said:

Note that there's no guarantee of continuity between drafts on computer A and computer B.

Also, why are you writing on two incompatible formats in the first place?

I'd like to disagree. There is at least one document formats (RTF =Rich Text Format) that I know of that seems to be universal.

Also, Apache's OpenOffice is a program platform that offers all the benefits of Microsoft Office and can be used on Apple machines as well as Windows based machines. I recommend it to my students when and if they are in a position where they do not have access to the university's computer labs AND they do have access to a personal computer but cannot afford Microsoft Office.

[0111narwhalz]

I meant using the forum software to save drafts. It's unreliable and seems to do it in your browser's cookies or cache, so it's also local.

I've used the Linux branch of OpenOffice (LibreOffice), and it worked well. Also use the Windows version, and that works well. Until an instructor gives you something in a Microsoft Office file format.

Now, I mostly use Google Docs. It's a fairly decent word processor, makes stuff available everywhere, and (most importantly) runs on my phone. It's hideous if you want to do any programming until you turn off all the "tools" like smart quotes and autocaps.

[steuben]

15 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

One of the problems I have is I have so many ideas for the story line that I sometimes have a hard decision committing to any one until I actually begin outlining the chapter.

Lucky. I'm doing well if I'm just breaking even on my ideas to stories ratio.

One of the bits of advice I've run across is to jot the idea down in a notebook, bag it, tag it, and cross ref it. Even if it doesn't get used right away they can suddenly fit else where in the story. Or turn in to a bit of Omake, or just additional bit of world building that exsist only in the bible. I'm on my second notebook of such things for a different verse, and have two on the go for the story lines here.

[adsii1970]

9 minutes ago, 0111narwhalz said:

I've used the Linux branch of OpenOffice (LibreOffice), and it worked well. Also use the Windows version, and that works well. Until an instructor gives you something in a Microsoft Office file format.

[Edited by adsii1970]

As long as the file is saved as a traditional MS Office document (except for MS Publisher, Microsoft Notebook, or MSO Access), the latest versions of OpenOffice can open Microsoft Office office documents. It is one of the reasons I recommend it to students (OpenOffice, that is).

I usually post all my on-line documents in PDF format - since that is also fairly easy to read using Freeware/Open-Source software.

[TotallyNotHuman]

31 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

the latest versions of OpenOffice can open Microsoft Office office documents.

Right and wrong. They can open it fine, no problem. However, if you use fonts that are otherwise unavailable on the computer with Open/LibreOffice (such as a Linux system, where the fonts are all FOSS) and without a substitute (IIRC, Liberation Serif substitutes Times New Roman), they will be SNAFU. The same is true vice versa.

If a document is created in MS Office, and then opened in Open/LibreOffice, it's possible that some of the more advanced formatting available in the former will probably render incorrectly in the latter. Some will render correctly, but probably won't have all the functions available in Microsoft Office.

[ccoel]

y

[TotallyNotHuman]

Just now, ccoel said:

y

If by 'y' you mean 'why is Libre/OpenOffice unable to open MS Office files losslessly', it's because the Microsoft Office file format is proprietary. Microsoft won't just distribute the file format of their documents to open-source projects, lest they lose profit to them. Therefore, they have to use black-box testing^{[citation needed]} to figure out the rougher points of the document format. This gives them something to work with, but still won't accomodate more advanced users.

For more advanced users, the option is either to use Wine or run Windows in a virtual machine and then install Microsoft Office on it.

[ccoel]

Oh