A Thread for Writers to talk about Writing

[Kerbinchaser]

1 hour ago, adsii1970 said:

I've also had a few characters named after forum members. There's @Kuzzter, who happens to be the best tracking officer at the KSC. I did give a description of his character in a off-topic thread. Then there's @obney kerman, who is a Major who is in charge of the Training Academy. He's an engineer but has a very rough attitude and demands professionalism from all. And then there's @Just Jim's namesake, J. Jim. And he's, well, he's...  

@Lo Var Lachland will be memorialized with the orbital space station Lachland, which will be at the edge of Kerbin orbit - beyond Minmus. But that's in a future chapter.

Hahaha! Woo hoo! Thanks dude!  

[SiriusRocketry]

Side note, is it a coincidence that my most distinguished pilot (currently on Minmus) is named Gusster Kerman?

I am drafting a new story, which I hope will be up soon.

[Alpha 360]

Hey SiriusRocketry, I am willing to run over your draft whenever you want to. I want to eventually become a writer, but I need to know enough about editing so that I can be (mostly) self-reliant. I hope that if you accept this offer I would not be a burden but a help.

Sincerely, Alpha  

[Just Jim]

3 hours ago, DarkOwl57 said:

Talking about first characters? Our favorite, lovable, possibly-slightly-maybe-just-a-little-bit-insane kerbal.... Jeb!

Definitely ! Can't forget Jeb. But I was more thinking characters we created ourselves, and not the fab-4. 

However, having said that, it is fascinating to read all the different versions of Jeb and the gang that each writer has.

On 1/11/2018 at 12:16 AM, Alpha 360 said:

Hello TWW! Or what you guys here call this thread. I have been staying up in the mission reports section, but I do believe I have enough writing experience to join onto this thread.

Oh, no experience required! Just a desire to write something... 

3 hours ago, obney kerman said:

Just make me sarcastic and you've got it.

I can do that.... not right away... he can't just suddenly turn sarcastic... But a few chapters down the road there will be a good opportunity to make him more sarcastic... and perhaps even a little jaded.  

[SiriusRocketry]

@Alpha 360 thanks for the offer mate, I'll think about it and get back to you. If you want to be a writer, I could run over one of your drafts with you in PM (if you'd like)

3 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

Definitely ! Can't forget Jeb. But I was more thinking characters we created ourselves, and not the fab-4. 

However, having said that, it is fascinating to read all the different versions of Jeb and the gang that each writer has.

Oh, no experience required! Just a desire to write something... 

I can do that.... not right away... he can't just suddenly turn sarcastic... But a few chapters down the road there will be a good opportunity to make him more sarcastic... and perhaps even a little jaded.  

 

My 'version' of Jeb (as seen in my story Jeb's Ride) is a jokester, albeit also a very talented pilot. His offhand and laidback attitude is a coping mechanism. He believes that Malmy's death was his fault due to a mishap during descent. I haven't fleshed out characters yet due to Jeb's Ride being a one-shot thing... But if people want me to, I could shake out a second chapter? 

 

[CatastrophicFailure]

10 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

Another thing I’m toying with is that the good guys aren’t as above board as, say, Star fleet. James accepted a bribe and got caught. The Kerman States accuses others of having nukes and hides their own. It’s giving more for me to work with.

This is where good, deep characters come from. Good guys who struggle with their own dark side, bad guys who secretly long for redemption. Gooder-than-good guys often become unbelievable, badder-than-baddies easily become chichés.

Spoiler

@Just Jim‘s Thompberry is a wonderful example. I’m still not sure if I trust him.

 

Now with ol’ Jeb, I seem to be the outlier. I killed the poor guy off before my story even started.  Val has been my focus of the Fab Four, and she really began with the first time I saw her in the game menu. She just looked so... small. Like a kid trying to see over a countertop. I figured yeah, she’s gotta be a feisty one. 

[DarkOwl57]

I think that one thing us writers can agree on though is that Jeb and Val have a thing going on (except for the kraken series, in which case he's dead). I don't think I've read a single story so far where those 2 haven't been together in some way or another 

[SiriusRocketry]

@DarkOwl57 Ah, but in my story BOB and Val had a thing for each other. Bob is my favorite of the Four- I see him as a timid but loyal friend who will complete his tasks no matter what.

[Alpha 360]

Yes! Some one who finally shares my views on the Four. I still don't understand why so many people I have found on the forums advocate that Jeb and Val are married or whatever. It is my firm belief that they are twins, separated twins at birth to give Jeb his roguishness from his father and Val her actual piloting from her mother (Because we all know Val is just the better pilot) 

 

[KSK]

20 hours ago, DarkOwl57 said:

I think that one thing us writers can agree on though is that Jeb and Val have a thing going on (except for the kraken series, in which case he's dead). I don't think I've read a single story so far where those 2 haven't been together in some way or another 

Ahhh - I'll be the exception that proves the rule then.

In my story, Val has definitely heard of Jeb - anything else would be rather like somebody in the 1960s US piloting community (or general population for that matter) not being aware of John Glenn.  But she doesn't know him personally and has never met him. In fact, until very recently, my Val hasn't been a part of the space program at all and even now she's only peripherally involved.

How well my Val and Jeb would actually get on is an interesting question which I don't honestly know the answer to.

[ZooNamedGames]

To continue my earlier conversation with @Just Jim and @adsii1970; I was mentioning how I had started another story series, but I never posted it as I kept stumbling over the dialogs. Although the individual comments are fine, the issue is formatting and stitching them together with pauses, interactions and actual conversations rather than passing comments. In Recover Vessel (need to get back to writing) this is a non-issue seeing as there is basically no dialogue whatsoever but not being able to manage dialog makes any more complex stories out of my reach or at least, less natural to read and more disjointed.

So, I come to ask; what advice can I take? I know Adsii mentioned this question being asked before. So maybe there's something I can read back on to learn.

[adsii1970]

One of the things I do is use ellipsis and hyphens.

Hyphens to indicate a character was interrupted...

"But sir," the yeoman replied. "I can't seem ---"

"You're not trying hard enough!" Admiral @Just Jim bellowed.

Hyphens to indicate a major change of ideas during a dialogue...

"But sir," the embattled yeoman responded. "You're not --- fine, go ahead and sit in that chair --- and you'll see!"

Ellipses to indicate confusion or clouded thought...

"Why do I seem... to be... stuck in this chair?" @Just Jim questioned. "I.. also... don't understand... why I am talking... like William Shatner!"

On 1/13/2018 at 8:20 AM, DarkOwl57 said:

I think that one thing us writers can agree on though is that Jeb and Val have a thing going on (except for the kraken series, in which case he's dead). I don't think I've read a single story so far where those 2 haven't been together in some way or another 

Wrong. They are not, repeat, NOT a couple or have a thing going in in mine. In fact, Jebediah can't stand her and sees her as a threat. He's overly competitive and does not like to come into second place, especially if it's a female Kerman. 

[ZooNamedGames]

13 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

One of the things I do is use ellipsis and hyphens.

Hyphens to indicate a character was interrupted...

"But sir," the yeoman replied. "I can't seem ---"

"You're not trying hard enough!" Admiral @Just Jim bellowed.

Hyphens to indicate a major change of ideas during a dialogue...

"But sir," the embattled yeoman responded. "You're not --- fine, go ahead and sit in that chair --- and you'll see!"

Ellipses to indicate confusion or clouded thought...

"Why do I seem... to be... stuck in this chair?" @Just Jim questioned. "I.. also... don't understand... why I am talking... like William Shatner!"

Alright- I see. Would either of you be up to reading what I had in a PM and comment your thoughts on the dialog so far?

[0111narwhalz]

27 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

Hyphens

Tecnically they're em dashes—but a couple of hyphens works in a pinch. 

1 minute ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Would either of you be up to reading what I had in a PM and comment your thoughts on the dialog so far?

Add me to the editor queue! 

Edited January 23, 2018 by 0111narwhalz

[adsii1970]

2 minutes ago, 0111narwhalz said:

Tecnically they're em dashes—but a couple of hyphens works in a pinch. 

Stupid forum software keeps converting them into hyphens, so I went with the word "hyphen" unless I put a space between them like - -

2 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Alright- I see. Would either of you be up to reading what I had in a PM and comment your thoughts on the dialog so far?

Sure, go ahead. I've no problem doing that...

[0111narwhalz]

3 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

Stupid forum software keeps converting them into hyphens, so I went with the word "hyphen" unless I put a space between them like - -

Really? That's weird—it's not doing it for me.

Edited January 23, 2018 by 0111narwhalz
why'd it grab that quote too?

[Guest]

On 1/13/2018 at 9:20 AM, DarkOwl57 said:

I think that one thing us writers can agree on  

No statement beginning with that clause is ever going to end up true.

[Cydonian Monk]

27 minutes ago, Kuzzter said:

No statement beginning with that clause is ever going to end up true.

I think the one thing we can all agree on is your statement is true. 

I no longer remember the precise technical name for such a leading statement, but it’s one of the many things we’re taught to avoid in business/technical/professional writing. Likewise for the phrase “In fact”, and the humble and misunderstood “that.”

“In fact” always reminds me of Tywin Lannister’s “I am the king” quote. To paraphrase: “Anything that must say ‘In fact’ is no true fact.”

Edited January 23, 2018 by Cydonian Monk

[DarkOwl57]

17 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

One of the things I do is use ellipsis and hyphens.

Hyphens to indicate a character was interrupted...

"But sir," the yeoman replied. "I can't seem ---"

"You're not trying hard enough!" Admiral @Just Jim bellowed.

Hyphens to indicate a major change of ideas during a dialogue...

"But sir," the embattled yeoman responded. "You're not --- fine, go ahead and sit in that chair --- and you'll see!"

Ellipses to indicate confusion or clouded thought...

"Why do I seem... to be... stuck in this chair?" @Just Jim questioned. "I.. also... don't understand... why I am talking... like William Shatner!"

Wrong. They are not, repeat, NOT a couple or have a thing going in in mine. In fact, Jebediah can't stand her and sees her as a threat. He's overly competitive and does not like to come into second place, especially if it's a female Kerman. 

 

16 hours ago, Kuzzter said:

No statement beginning with that clause is ever going to end up true.

*TFW people quote you on a post from a week and a half ago*

[Alpha 360]

To start a new "sub-topic" on this thread, do people prefer to use one or more of the original 4 as their main character(s)? Or do they start over and pick the coolest name in the astronaut complex hiring list and use them as their main character? In my thread, Roni Kerman is a hired Kerbonaut and is KASA's last pilot. Adds a bit of pressure on her to survive. As well as the fact that if she dies, I can never write again without thinking of her and trying to put in a character similar to her in every story. 

[KSK]

Heh - before I found a name generator online, I would scour the various screenshot threads on the forum to find interesting names, as well as using the in-game hiring list.

My first six characters were mostly taken from my current game in progress: Jeb, Bill, Bob, Lucan, Geneney (that turned out to be a stroke of luck) and I threw Wernher in because why not? This was a long time before Val was introduced although I did work her into the story later.

As for a preference - I've only written/am currently writing one story so it's hard to tell.  The original four are one of the few  bits of actual KSP canon that we have from Squad though, so I do think that including them somewhere helps to make a story more recognisable as a KSP story particularly if you're not using screenshots.

I wouldn't say they need to be main characters though - I've seen good examples either way, especially for Jeb. Seems like everyone has 'their' Jeb, ranging from dead hero to canonical badS pilot to just another pilot on the roster to founder of the space program.  

 

[Just Jim]

1 hour ago, Alpha 360 said:

To start a new "sub-topic" on this thread, do people prefer to use one or more of the original 4 as their main character(s)? Or do they start over and pick the coolest name in the astronaut complex hiring list and use them as their main character? In my thread, Roni Kerman is a hired Kerbonaut and is KASA's last pilot. Adds a bit of pressure on her to survive. As well as the fact that if she dies, I can never write again without thinking of her and trying to put in a character similar to her in every story. 

In my case I started with the fab-4 in the first chapter. But in my second, I wanted to do a romantic part, but not with Val... She just didn't feel right. So I introduced two scientists, Harfield and Jandolin, to fill the role:

A couple chapters later my fab-4 were on the Mun, but I needed a pilot on Kerbin, and another on Emiko Station, so I introduced two more characters: Piper and Kerenna... and a couple more chapters after that I decided I needed a villain, so I created Thompberry... And I couldn't begin to guess which has become the fan-favorite.... probably Thompberry. Or Emiko herself, who I brought in later.

But it's now 90 some chapters later, and while I have a bunch more main and supporting characters, the story has swung around full-circle, and is mostly focused on Val and the gang once again.

 

Edited January 24, 2018 by Just Jim

[0111narwhalz]

25 minutes ago, Alpha 360 said:

do people prefer to use one or more of the original 4 as their main character(s)?

In one of my stories they've all been dead for centuries. In another the scope is a single mission crewed by whitesuits. And the third involves the original 3 as primary characters. Val wasn't around when I started Warped Stars, so she doesn't really have a place in the team.

In my early writings, my characters were taken directly from the roster. Wehrcan was my star test pilot, riding screwtanks from orbit. Joruki was an engineer in one of my many attempted orbital assembly stations. A few months ago, though, TotallyNotHuman and I wrote a utility to generate kerbal names (entitled, creatively, KSPNamegen). I've been using it exclusively since then to generate kerbal names. It's effectively the same as the stock English ingame generator.

[steuben]

In the Groundbound the original four are there, but only as walk-ons in the later ones. I ended up putting together an excel sheet that can build kerbal names, so I could staff the rest of the program.

[adsii1970]

1 hour ago, Alpha 360 said:

do people prefer to use one or more of the original 4 as their main character(s)? Or do they start over and pick the coolest name in the astronaut complex hiring list and use them as their main character?

Kerny is my main character. He's not one of the four...