tater Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, mikegarrison said: Spaceflight has only basically focused on 1, 2, and 3. They have talked about 4, 5, and 6 but not really done much of it. Yeah, this really is the problem with human spaceflight. I love human spaceflight, it's cool, and it's the future I want to see. I just can't wrap my head around a decent use case that results in any economic benefit except tourism—and tourism as a mass market is a long, long pole, IMHO. Needs to be airline level safety, maybe not 2021 airline safety, but certainly airline safety from within the last few decades, so many orders of magnitude safer than space travel is right now. Edited October 6, 2021 by tater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavio hc16 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 22 hours ago, tater said: Yeah, this really is the problem with human spaceflight. I love human spaceflight, it's cool, and it's the future I want to see. I just can't wrap my head around a decent use case that results in any economic benefit except tourism—and tourism as a mass market is a long, long pole, IMHO. Needs to be airline level safety, maybe not 2021 airline safety, but certainly airline safety from within the last few decades, so many orders of magnitude safer than space travel is right now. 3d printing organics ( aka organs) for wealthy individuals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Flavio hc16 said: 3d printing organics ( aka organs) for wealthy individuals Human spaceflight/colonization. Manufacturing in space needs machines, not humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakaydos Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 22 hours ago, tater said: Yeah, this really is the problem with human spaceflight. I love human spaceflight, it's cool, and it's the future I want to see. I just can't wrap my head around a decent use case that results in any economic benefit except tourism—and tourism as a mass market is a long, long pole, IMHO. Needs to be airline level safety, maybe not 2021 airline safety, but certainly airline safety from within the last few decades, so many orders of magnitude safer than space travel is right now. In order for there to be transportation, there has to be a destination worth transporting to. Without the ISS, Commercial crew would never have happened. A SpaceX mars base/colony "beachhead" is a precondition for interplanetary science expeditions. There's no reason for Stanford to do LEO science and Lunar science is the domain of "the Goverment". But in the not so distant future, a non-govermental base on mars that offers base-camp amenities for expeditions into the martian wilderness is something that might attract institution-funded geological lewis-and-clark missions, funding the expansion of the base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 27 minutes ago, Rakaydos said: In order for there to be transportation, there has to be a destination worth transporting to. Without the ISS, Commercial crew would never have happened. A SpaceX mars base/colony "beachhead" is a precondition for interplanetary science expeditions. There's no reason for Stanford to do LEO science and Lunar science is the domain of "the Goverment". But in the not so distant future, a non-govermental base on mars that offers base-camp amenities for expeditions into the martian wilderness is something that might attract institution-funded geological lewis-and-clark missions, funding the expansion of the base. For this to be true prices would have to be vastly lower than they are now obviously. I agree that all human destinations in space have to be built… First. In the grand scheme, scientific expeditions are not enough money to matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Oh hells yes, exogeologists would want to go to Mars and actually study it right there. But that's not on the table right now. Spending three days looking out a porthole from orbit is cool and all, but it's not something I want MIT to be paying their grad students to do. Not if it costs $20M/trip, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 This is great news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmuckatelli Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 3 hours ago, tater said: This is great news Yeppers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrandedonEarth Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 https://spacenews.com/starliner-valve-investigation-continues-to-focus-on-moisture-interaction-with-propellant/ It'll be ready when... it's ready Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 NASA conference call about valve issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shpaget Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 I realize this is not Starliner related, but it's still Boeing and this is the only active Boeing thread. Also, at this time it's nothing more that an allegation, but here it goes anyway https://www.expressnews.com/business/local/article/Air-Force-One-work-tied-to-Saudis-16595887.php tldr, Boeing got a contract to work on Air Force One 747, outsourced it to Saudis, they bailed, now Boeing is asking for additional 500 megabucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmuckatelli Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, Shpaget said: outsourced it to Saudis, they bailed, now Boeing is asking for additional 500 megabucks Sounds like something the former guy would shrug at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 (edited) That article is paywalled, but I found this from April that suggests this is not a new issue. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boeing-air-force-idUSKBN2BV37Z It is probably not well known, but typically custom interiors are not designed, manufactured, or installed by airframers. If you buy a bizjet, for instance, you usually buy it as a "green" airplane, and you hire a specialty firm to install the interior you want. This is known as "completing" the airplane. Edited November 9, 2021 by mikegarrison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmuckatelli Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 3 hours ago, mikegarrison said: That article is paywalled, but I found this from April that suggests this is not a new issue. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boeing-air-force-idUSKBN2BV37Z It is probably not well known, but typically custom interiors are not designed, manufactured, or installed by airframers. If you buy a bizjet, for instance, you usually buy it as a "green" airplane, and you hire a specialty firm to install the interior you want. This is known as "completing" the airplane. Neat. I also understand that we've forgotten everything learned during the Cold War about espionage security? Totally makes sense to outsource the interior of AF1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 24 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said: Neat. I also understand that we've forgotten everything learned during the Cold War about espionage security? Totally makes sense to outsource the interior of AF1. I was speaking generally. I have no detailed knowledge of the AF1 airplane. However, corporate espionage is also a thing, and presumably there are ways to make sure your airplane interior is not full of bugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 https://spacenews.com/nasa-to-award-spacex-three-more-commercial-crew-flights/ Dragon in this thread? Yeah, a good poster on NSF pointed out that given contract lead times, this purchase by NASA signals they likely want certainty about crew flights out until possibly Fall of 2023, suggesting that they perceive risk that Starliner might not be operationally available before then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 Blink. That's one way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmuckatelli Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 28 minutes ago, tater said: Blink. That's one way to do it. Sometimes a thing gets FUBAR... and that becomes the only way to do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said: Sometimes a thing gets FUBAR... and that becomes the only way to do it Makes sense—the question what is different about SM number 2? Did they spec different parts? Since it was already not attached to a CM, was it because they could replace the valves, then do a swap? What was the underlying issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotius Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 New service module? Wonder how many new malfunctions will pop up when they plug it in fully? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 The new service module should provide more room. Spoiler https://protarashotelinstitute.com/2020/06/08/module-11room-service/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmuckatelli Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 16 hours ago, tater said: Makes sense—the question what is different about SM number 2? Did they spec different parts? Since it was already not attached to a CM, was it because they could replace the valves, then do a swap? What was the underlying issue? I'd be interested to know that, too. But it's a cost-plus contract, right? So no harm in tossing away the old one and never explaining what went wrong SMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxgurugamer Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 10 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said: I'd be interested to know that, too. But it's a cost-plus contract, right? So no harm in tossing away the old one and never explaining what went wrong SMH No, I think it's a fixed-price, just that they quoted (and were awarded) a price nearly double what SpaceX quoted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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