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Devnote Tuesday: UI, more UI, and answers to frequently asked questions!

SQUAD

By SQUAD
in KSP1 The Daily Kerbal

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SyberSmoke

SyberSmoke

Posted
Posted
I think he was talking about the resource checking part. Enhanced navball is a very well know mod that has been around for years.

If you look at the first page Regex states:

Maybe we could have a movable and sizable navball, much like how Enhanced Navball handles things? Looking good overall.

Any word on crawling the entire craft part tree on every resource request?

In reply to this, KasperVLD stated:

Do you have a link to the topic? I'll see if we can squeeze it in for next week

Quoting Regex's statement, for me it is pretty clear that Kasper was asking about the thread leading to the Navball being repositionable and scalable. Especially since the topic was about UI changes. And one of the most prominent UI elements is the Navball.

Now I could be wrong, but given the line of thinking it looks clear to me. But really only KasperVLD could sort out what he intended. :-) So Kasper what is it, Navball or crawling resources?

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Merandix

Merandix

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Posted
This really isn't the place for feature requests, there's a separate forum for that :)

Dear KasperVld, and all of squad. I hope you realise you just acted out encouragement to post feature requests here.

This is the only topic that apparently gets some dev-attention. So it's the obvious jump-board to post requests. You just asked someone to post a link to a topic in the requests section. You basically confirmed that suggestions here get more attention than in suggestions and development.

Drop a short line in suggestions and development every now and then. Take five minutes a week to scroll through the top page of requests, and maybe respond to one or two interesting or popular topics. Doing that, you make it a worthwhile platform. This will maybe take 15 minutes of your time a week. And it doesn't need to be the same person every week, or even on an actual weekly basis. Give people a sense that the suggestions and development forum is being actively read, and THEN maybe the suggestions in this topic will lessen.What you basically did was confirm this is the best place for ones suggestions. Since they're actually being read here. Again, not saying you don't read the suggestions and development forum, just that people get a sense you're not, because you post more often in this topic, than in that forum.

=================================================

That being said, sounds like work on the 'engine update' is coming along nicely!

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Alshain

Alshain

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Posted
Dear KasperVld, and all of squad. I hope you realise you just acted out encouragement to post feature requests here.

This is the only topic that apparently gets some dev-attention. So it's the obvious jump-board to post requests. You just asked someone to post a link to a topic in the requests section. You basically confirmed that suggestions here get more attention than in suggestions and development.

Drop a short line in suggestions and development every now and then. Take five minutes a week to scroll through the top page of requests, and maybe respond to one or two interesting or popular topics. Doing that, you make it a worthwhile platform. This will maybe take 15 minutes of your time a week. And it doesn't need to be the same person every week, or even on an actual weekly basis. Give people a sense that the suggestions and development forum is being actively read, and THEN maybe the suggestions in this topic will lessen.What you basically did was confirm this is the best place for ones suggestions. Since they're actually being read here. Again, not saying you don't read the suggestions and development forum, just that people get a sense you're not, because you post more often in this topic, than in that forum.

=================================================

That being said, sounds like work on the 'engine update' is coming along nicely!

The problem that often happens is the moment a dev comments on a suggestion post, people jump to conclusions and assume that is support for it and it will get developed.

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Capt Snuggler

Capt Snuggler

Posted
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Dear KasperVld, and all of squad. I hope you realise you just acted out encouragement to post feature requests here.

This is the only topic that apparently gets some dev-attention. So it's the obvious jump-board to post requests. You just asked someone to post a link to a topic in the requests section. You basically confirmed that suggestions here get more attention than in suggestions and development.

Drop a short line in suggestions and development every now and then. Take five minutes a week to scroll through the top page of requests, and maybe respond to one or two interesting or popular topics. Doing that, you make it a worthwhile platform. This will maybe take 15 minutes of your time a week. And it doesn't need to be the same person every week, or even on an actual weekly basis. Give people a sense that the suggestions and development forum is being actively read, and THEN maybe the suggestions in this topic will lessen.What you basically did was confirm this is the best place for ones suggestions. Since they're actually being read here. Again, not saying you don't read the suggestions and development forum, just that people get a sense you're not, because you post more often in this topic, than in that forum.

this ^

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eddiew

eddiew

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Posted
This is the only topic that apparently gets some dev-attention. So it's the obvious jump-board to post requests. You just asked someone to post a link to a topic in the requests section. You basically confirmed that suggestions here get more attention than in suggestions and development. ...
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Streetwind

Streetwind

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Dear KasperVld, and all of squad. I hope you realise you just acted out encouragement to post feature requests here.

This is the only topic that apparently gets some dev-attention. So it's the obvious jump-board to post requests. You just asked someone to post a link to a topic in the requests section. You basically confirmed that suggestions here get more attention than in suggestions and development.

No, you guys are just writing your own opinions into Kasper's words instead of reading them, via confirmation bias.

He was asking for Regex to elaborate on the resource thing so next week's devnotes can maybe have an answer to the question similar to how this one has an answer to the clickthrough question. At no point has he or any other developer issued a request for feature ideas. In fact, you just quoted Kasper literally stating the opposite. Thus any statement like the one you made above is simply and completely made up (and quite rude on a personal level to boot).

Please, people. Think for a moment before you rabidly jump to conclusions. Reactions like these are the reason developers stop interacting with the community directly after it exceeds a certain size.

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John FX

John FX

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No, you guys are just writing your own opinions into Kasper's words instead of reading them, via confirmation bias.

He was asking for Regex to elaborate on the resource thing so next week's devnotes can maybe have an answer to the question similar to how this one has an answer to the clickthrough question. At no point has he or any other developer issued a request for feature ideas. In fact, you just quoted Kasper literally stating the opposite. Thus any statement like the one you made above is simply and completely made up (and quite rude on a personal level to boot).

Please, people. Think for a moment before you rabidly jump to conclusions. Reactions like these are the reason developers stop interacting with the community directly after it exceeds a certain size.

So it would appear that you just quoted a post asking for more feedback in the suggestion forum to encourage people to post there and not here and yet replied as though it were saying the opposite, which is plain with the full quote. It may well be that the response was to a different part of the post, the important part is that it got replied to which is rare anywhere else on the forum...

Also, Regex WAS making a feature request, or at least requesting the code be changed (in a way I support) which is essentially the same.

Have the devs look at the entire Part.RequestResource() chain. It's pretty hairy and I (and a bunch of other people) are pretty certain optimizing that would help with large craft since crawling over the entire craft part tree several times per Unity update looking for Resources instead of caching those parts containing usable Resources is wasteful. There have been a few mentions of it, not certain if anyone has ever posted it as a bug since it's pure optimization (not to mention all the other vagaries surrounding the KSP source code and discussing it here).

Myself, I also feel that this thread gets looked over more by `people who matter` than the many suggestions in the suggestion forum.

One reason I visit is to see the topic of the week as far as development goes and to try to stop Squad in their favourite hobby, which is only implementing half the bits of a great feature.

In the UI for example, for many years now, it has been very difficult to choose between two craft that are very close but over 2.5km. As this happens A LOT especially when wanting two craft to rendezvous it would seem that it would be an essential part of the UI when dealing with more than one craft yet we still have the system of `click and hope`

I have suggested this many times in the suggestion forum over the years and supplied a few solutions as the updates fly by with no change and now we are at `the great rewriting` of the UI and I suspect this will STILL not get looked at.

It would seem plain that either the system is not working or the system is not being shown to be working due to the lack of feedback. I suspect the latter.

This leaves people in the state where they make suggestions and nothing happens, leading them to understandably think the suggestion has been missed in the huge amount of suggestions and has not been read. Then when they see a reply to any post at all (whether a suggestion or not) they too desire to have their valid suggestion to improve the game for everyone be seen so they post their suggestions in the one place they see as getting read, the devnote thread...

As we now have a dedicated devnote writer who is aware of the current state of development and future implementation plans, maybe they (or someone else) could comment in a sticky thread in suggestions to say "This will happen", "This will not happen" or "This suggestion has been seen and will be thought about but may well not happen"

Like the popular `threads of the month` could we have a monthly `suggestion roundup` where suggestions are gathered and shown to the forum to gauge opinion and provide even the slightest sign that someone is reading them?

Things like that would seem essential once the community exceeds a certain size to stop reactions like these...

Relationships fail when one party just withdraws and stops communicating on a topic. A two way dialogue is essential in any relationship.

That said, the proper place for suggestions is the suggestion forum but it also is the place that we should get feedback on suggestions.

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MiniMatt

MiniMatt

Posted
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I'm an impatient young scamp I know, but would it still be safe to characterise QA as being "very, very near"?

Clearly we're closer to QA this week than we were last but in reconciling last week's:

...although we’ve been saying it for a few weeks now, QA is getting very, very near

... with this week's:

...we are still looking at quite a mountain to climb with the overhaul. Progress is happening much more steadily now, but the amount of work still left to be done is enormous.

... I'm wondering if unforseen problems or malevolent pixies have been spotted in the code?

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Majorjim!

Majorjim!

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Take your time chaps, we all would rather wait for one big update that had some degree of testing done on it then have two or three little ones to fix the fixes.

And the fact that the update wont break craft is ESSENTIAL! The game is full release now, you break craft, you break thousands of hours work. You break craft, you break my heart, you break the game. Please do not do this ever again,

Cheers,

MJ

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lajoswinkler

lajoswinkler

Posted
Posted
Take your time chaps, we all would rather wait for one big update that had some degree of testing done on it then have two or three little ones to fix the fixes.

And the fact that the update wont break craft is ESSENTIAL! The game is full release now, you break craft, you break thousands of hours work. You break craft, you break my heart, you break the game. Please do not do this ever again,

Cheers,

MJ

This is the reason why some parts should've been removed earlier. :cool:

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Capt Snuggler

Capt Snuggler

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And the fact that the update wont break craft is ESSENTIAL! The game is full release now, you break craft, you break thousands of hours work. You break craft, you break my heart, you break the game. Please do not do this ever again,

Cheers,

MJ

... nah break em. :P its fun rebuilding and I'm happy to do so if it means less bugs.

"Those who sacrifice stability and usability to gain backward compatibility (of save files) deserve neither." - Benjamin Kerman

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Bill Phil

Bill Phil

Posted
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Look at images of the old UI, and you'll get a pretty good idea.

They're not changing the look, just how it works.

Yes, this disappoints me as well.

I like the current one. Although a few features would be nice; such as a movable toolbar and a movable navball.

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regex

regex

Posted
Posted
I like the current one. Although a few features would be nice; such as a movable toolbar and a movable navball.
There are some things that could be done much better, information that could be presented much better, and information that is obfuscated for some maddening reason. It's not so much about "looks" as it is about "design".
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Majorjim!

Majorjim!

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... nah break em. :P its fun rebuilding and I'm happy to do so if it means less bugs.

"Those who sacrifice stability and usability to gain backward compatibility (of save files) deserve neither." - Benjamin Kerman

Lol, spoken by a man who had not spent hours and hours hand crafting his labours of love.

Trolling aside, this is a full release. You CANNOT break the game after release. Imagine you spent hours and hours unlocking tanks in warthunder only for an update to wipe all that out.

Would you be happy?

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Majorjim!

Majorjim!

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Yeah, I want to know this too! Maybe the PQS system is up for an optimization pass...

There are many areas of code in the game that need a serious optimisation pass. People are finding inelegant code that if fixed could drastically improve performance.

I really hope Squad dedicate some time to this soon.

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Kerbart

Kerbart

Posted
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Trolling aside, this is a full release. You CANNOT break the game after release. Imagine you spent hours and hours unlocking tanks in warthunder only for an update to wipe all that out.

But what is "breaking?"

Obviously being unable to load your save file, we all agree on that. But how about expeditions on their way to planets, or on the way back, that can no longer safely land, due to changes at the aero/heat/mechanical model?

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