[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)

[septemberWaves]

1 hour ago, Zorg said:

As for its provenance there isnt much more context beyond this. Theres a drawing at link which suggests those sections at the top of the booster and the two above it are additional storable stages.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=26915.200

This is almost like a NASA version of the UR-700... which I feel like I've spoken into existence as a kitbash now that I've typed it out.

[GoldForest]

6 hours ago, septemberWaves said:

This is almost like a NASA version of the UR-700... which I feel like I've spoken into existence as a kitbash now that I've typed it out.

[GoldForest]

[biohazard15]

5 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

Just Atlas As as a side boosters?

 

(Also, this is probably the most awesome thing I've ever seen made with BDB.)

[GoldForest]

17 minutes ago, biohazard15 said:

Just Atlas As as a side boosters?

 

(Also, this is probably the most awesome thing I've ever seen made with BDB.)

Might have to switch them to Titan side boosters, or move them to Atlas Ds/LVs.

Edit, yeah, the second stage doesn't have the TWR to make it to orbit, and the 1st stage doesn't have the fuel to lob the rocket into a high altitude. At least, not with Atlas engines. Hmmm. Titan engines maybe?

Edit edit: Or I can just use the booster engines instead of sustainer engines, duh.

Edited May 27 by GoldForest

[biohazard15]

40 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

Might have to switch them to Titan side boosters, or move them to Atlas Ds/LVs.

Edit, yeah, the second stage doesn't have the TWR to make it to orbit, and the 1st stage doesn't have the fuel to lob the rocket into a high altitude. At least, not with Atlas engines. Hmmm. Titan engines maybe?

Edit edit: Or I can just use the booster engines instead of sustainer engines, duh.

Go big or go home, I'll say.

Titan side boosters with UA1208 SRBs attached to them.

Come to think of it, ditch the Atlas completely, and go all Titan. UR-700 was a UDMH\N2O4 rocket, not some kerolox.

(The BDB crew doesn't even start to comprehend what they've unleashed into the world when they made that tricoupler, LOL)

Edited May 27 by biohazard15

[GoldForest]

Atlas UR-700-a-like.

Full album: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Kerbin rise. 

[GoldForest]

@Zorg This is your fault. You've unleashed the cursedness inside me. And it can't be contained.

Note: This is just a excrementspost to show what can be done with the tricoupler. I may not actually launch this... or maybe I will... idk. 

Someone take this part away from me before I regret what I'm thinking of doing... 

Edited May 27 by GoldForest

[Pappystein]

I have seen that Atlas Tri-coupler model in two un-related places.   Both of them had outlandish things to say...    

• In one instance, it was a way to launch a Convair developed Space Station for NASA.  
• In the other, it was meant for the Superheavy Thermonuclear warheads... Just like the OG Atlas F (the Atlas III length one with 2x H-1 engines from Saturn as Booster engines!)

In Neither case is the source material anything but some rando person's thoughts.   No paperwork to back up either.

Zorg's link to NASASpaceflight has the only "actual" documentation I have seen.  Now what is a 1.875m KSP scale storable stage....  

I have a Drawing of a Centaur derived (it looks nothing like centaur) Storable stage in my archive.  It is tiny compared to the model so I doubt it is it.  

 

[GoldForest]

1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

Now what is a 1.875m KSP scale storable stage....  

Agena 2000 would be 1.875 IIRC. Shuttle Agena was also wide. Idk if it would be 1.875.

[Pappystein]

37 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

Agena 2000 would be 1.875 IIRC. Shuttle Agena was also wide. Idk if it would be 1.875.

The "uni-body" Shuttle Agena or Big Agena would have been 1.875m KSP scale... +/-   Most of the drawings I have of it show it at 10ft.   BUT most of the drawings of it are.... um light on the details.   Most of the documents that lead to the SOT tanks for Agena as well as the rear deflection "skirt" are the ones with the Uni-body shuttle Agena.

 

Agena 2000... it is debatable.  Some people talk about it as a 0.9375m dia tank inside an extended fairing.   However, I do agree with you Agena 2K would likely have been 1.875m and IMHO would have used Centaur GCU for simplicity.  But then again we will never know.  Honestly though, that is so far into the future... oh Snap.   I just thought of this as I was typing.    Lo-MSC may have proposed Agena C for it.   Agena C, which never got more than 3 steps down the "can we do this" decision tree, was to be 1.875m ksp scale (10ft IRL)  Powered by 2 engines...  

 

 

[GoldForest]

5 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

The "uni-body" Shuttle Agena or Big Agena would have been 1.875m KSP scale... +/-   Most of the drawings I have of it show it at 10ft.   BUT most of the drawings of it are.... um light on the details.   Most of the documents that lead to the SOT tanks for Agena as well as the rear deflection "skirt" are the ones with the Uni-body shuttle Agena.

 

Agena 2000... it is debatable.  Some people talk about it as a 0.9375m dia tank inside an extended fairing.   However, I do agree with you Agena 2K would likely have been 1.875m and IMHO would have used Centaur GCU for simplicity.  But then again we will never know.  Honestly though, that is so far into the future... oh Snap.   I just thought of this as I was typing.    Lo-MSC may have proposed Agena C for it.   Agena C, which never got more than 3 steps down the "can we do this" decision tree, was to be 1.875m ksp scale (10ft IRL)  Powered by 2 engines...  

 

 

@CobaltWolf or @Zorg Can we have these? Please?

They are Atlas related... kind of.

[Zorg]

1 hour ago, GoldForest said:

@CobaltWolf or @Zorg Can we have these? Please?

They are Atlas related... kind of.

Some sort of attempt at Agena 2000 is under consideration but not yet confirmed for the to do list.

[Ganyymeede]

I love Gemini and I will always love Gemini.

#

 

Spoiler

Bonus Apollo things:

https://imgur.com/2JUIwn

 

[Pappystein]

16 hours ago, GoldForest said:

@CobaltWolf or @Zorg Can we have these? Please?

They are Atlas related... kind of.

Or just Use VEGA parts with an Agena engine and the old hypergolic fuel patch for the tanks (you want about 4x the fuel as Agena B/D tank to match what it would be IRL  (Based on Shuttle Agena documents)

I think the LONG centaur Interstage is tall enough to fit all of that together!

Edited May 28 by Pappystein

[Pappystein]

Ok, I have 15 minutes to bash this out before I have to leave for my interview....

 

Fat Agenas:

Agena C:  scant details 10ft diameter, 2-4x the fuel of AgenaB/D.   One or 2 engines (also debatable!)  <===---   Force canceled by the USAF for breach of contract (Agena A/B contracts)

Agena F (E?) / Shuttle Agena (appear to be the same unit)   10ft diameter SINGLE Engine  GCU looks similar to same timeframe Centaur (it isn't the same however!)

Agena E 10ft diameter, 1 Agena 2 Enlarged SPS engines.   Canceled in favor of less complicated Satelite Propuplsive section on KH-9 Hexagon.  

Agena 2000.   Probably 10ft diameter   But nothing is certain on this except.  The proposed engine by Atlantic reaserch which is dubious in the ability to make given parts were out of production....     It is an Agena in name only (Kinda like how Atlas V and Delta IV are Those rockets in NAME ONLY too)

 

 

Edited May 28 by Pappystein

[Pappystein]

Ok More details now that I am back from my interview (2nd and final interview with the company.   I think I did ok.  Only time will tell.)

While I did cover this a bit in my Agena article.   The Ascent Agena (the last 16 production Agenas ever built)  really can't be called a stand-alone stage/satellite anymore.   It is a set of fuel tanks, RCS and an Engine.  No Guidance computer, No Electronics, no nothing else were on it.    In this guise they were dumb boosters.  The last generation KH-8 Gambit would be the computer to run these.   These Agenas do not receive any sort of letter designation but are sometimes credited by 2nd tier historians as "Agena E."   We have documented proof that Agena E is either Shuttle Agena or KH-9 Propulsive section (in its final form,) so Ascent Agena is letter-less in it's official nomenclature.   The Documentation on this was released in the last 5-10 years.   Agena E as a name for Ascent Agena has been branded around a lot longer than that time frame.

I covered the reasons behind the Agena C cancellation a few months ago.   Short version was Lockheed and Bell were "messing up" by the numbers with the Agena A and Agena B.   Reliability was really low.   Most of this was due to analog clocks being the guts of the Guidance system.   And I am serious Electrically powered "Wind up" style clocks were used to TIME everything on these launches!  The precision (ability to be set to the same time every-time across all clocks) was low, the people manually configuring these clocks were not super accurate.   All this is because of the "Rush" of the Space race.    Needless to say the contractual promises were kinda ahead of the technology at the time.   In this Environment, Lockheed submitted an unsolicited proposal for Agena C with a 10ft diameter......    USAF was NOT HAPPY!

What became Shuttle Agena, is the last "True Agena" stage.   While sources on the USAF programs are scant at this point, I THINK this is Agena F, not Agena E.   Whatever one it is... the other Agena(x) became the KH-9 Propulsive section... And it too is no longer related to Agena (other than being an evolution of it.)   Shuttle Agena was a series of Proposals in the early-late 1970s for a NASA only version of Agena that would fit in the Shuttle bay.   We have one version of it already in BDB with the inclusion of the SOT tanks and Deflection cone/"tutu" for the Agena D tankage.   Some of the guidance and communication bits were also included in the fairly recent Agena Update.   The alternative single tank Shuttle Agena, was again 10ft diameter (1.875m in KSP)  Powered by a single Bell engine and per the few drawings we have of it, NOT compatible with the SPS pods utilized on GATV Agena, although that might be an omission from the paper because of how the SPS engines were enlarged for the KH-9 Hexagon.     Shuttle Agena took two forms.   The in BDB SOT tank option, and the 10ft monohull option.  Both granted the Agena about a 4x fuel load on the same (improved) LR81-BA engine.  

Why I think Shuttle Agena is the Agena F is simple.   The Ascent Agena contract and the Agena E contract were laid out at the same time for Lockheed and Bell.   Agena E contract, at the start, was to be the Propulsive section for the slightly larger than the KH-8 Gambit replacement... the KH-9 GAMBIT!   Yes, I said that correctly.   At the time of contract start, the KH-9 was to be an evolved KH-8 Gambit with extra battery, and Solar power and a 3rd Return bucket.  Mission creep would see the now renamed KH-9 Hexagon get a 4th film bucket for the mapping camera, and the Agena E would utilize an ENLARGED version of the SPS pods that were really first used on the GATV for NASA.  The Enlargement of the SPS pods is why I think none of the Shuttle Agena drawings really show them.  But that is 100% supposition on my part.   Eventually as the UA120x family would evolve, the Titan III family getting it's longer first stage tanks and better LR87 and LR91 engines, it was realized that the big Bell engine would not be needed and a single smaller engine, with quite a bit of fuel, would be more efficient.  This is when Agena "E" ceases to be and what is left is the Hexagon Propulsion system.   If you ever look at the front of the HPS, you can see clearly the 5ft central dome that is a hold over from the Agena's fuel tank!  This tank is surrounded by several smaller tanks inside the HPS structure.   The single engine powering this into orbit?   Yes, the enlarged single SPS engine.   *To be clear, it is my supposition as to the structure being the last vestages of Agena... we do not know, no sources have been released to tell us much about it yet.*

Finally we have EELV Storable Upper Stage, which has a "heritage" Agena Engine parts... The press, and the engine designer had dubbed this Agena 2000.   However it appears that General Dynamics Convair was not actually naming it that.   Atlantic Research (A division of Marathon (oil) company latter British Petroleum, now defunct in the US) proposed re-using a bunch of out of production rocket motor parts, including several from the Bell LR81, to power the General Dynamics (Lockheed) Atlas Storable Upper Stage.   The Idea was it would be cheaper to build because the parts were already "certified" as space worthy.   However the all up rocket motor would still need to be certified and many at USAF and NASA did not trust this concept.   Almost all the 3rd party parts used to make this engine were already out of production and the manufactures have long since moved on to other projects.   There is a AIAA paper exists and is purchasable from the AIAA archives (I have a copy of it) covering the performance... significantly smaller than the LR81 Agena engine, mostly in length due to the much smaller combustion chamber... the "Agena 2000" engine (Atlantic Researches name for it) looks like what would happen if you took a Rocketdyne RS25 SSME and shrunk it down with a smooth surfaced bell akin to the latter AJ10s

If anyone has sources on the Storable Upper Stage for either the Atlas V or the Delta IV, I would appreciate the share.  We do know that the Delta IV Storable upper stage would be Delta II heritage AJ10-118K powered and a small diameter.. maybe even the same 8ft as the Delta II upper stage.

Edited May 28 by Pappystein

[DaveyJ576]

8 hours ago, Ganyymeede said:

I love Gemini and I will always love Gemini.

#

 

  Hide contents

Bonus Apollo things:

https://imgur.com/2JUIwn

 

Very well done! Your TUFX profiles rock!

[Pappystein]

So, decided to try to use CKAN again (as well as  KJR)  Did a complete wipe of my gamedata folder...   And promptly forgot to backup my personal mods  (Geebus!)   So bye Bye LR87-AJ-11A engine! (amongst many other tweaks I have done)  

Ok over that (that is a lie I am not!).   Installed everything needed for ISS + BDB and ORANGES/Photon Corp.   Here is my 4th launch...  Proper use of early X-15 parts:

Contract to test Star 31 Antares III scout 3rd stage engine using a Juno Guidance computer, some science bobs, some aerodynamic bobs and of course Real Chute 1.25m conic chute

And I need to install atmosphere/texture mods still...   But oh well system runs good!

Edited May 28 by Pappystein

[zakkpaz]

@CobaltWolf  I figured out why the X-15 parachute caused the game to freeze.

it a compatibility issue with SigmaTweakChutes, delete the dll and the game loads no problem, I didn't even know I had it, its included with JNSQ for some reason

 

[Pappystein]

Cursed Minuteman-Flea-Mercury

[Pappystein]

More Cursed Images for you all...

Yes that is the new Atlas III tanks... with an LR-105... Sue me I don't have RD180 yet!   This Atlas III-Vega-Agena is going to the moon baby!

Spoiler

 

I may not have the Atmosphere set up right yet... but Space... Space looks GREAT!   Agena Gambit to the Moon!

When you want to launch a rescue mission and forget that the computer auto populates the 2nd Seat in Gemini...    Pop them out on a space walk.   This is far enough away Right?  RIGHT?

 

 

 

[GoldForest]

45 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

More Cursed Images for you all...

Yes that is the new Atlas III tanks... with an LR-105... Sue me I don't have RD180 yet!   This Atlas III-Vega-Agena is going to the moon baby!

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I may not have the Atmosphere set up right yet... but Space... Space looks GREAT!   Agena Gambit to the Moon!

When you want to launch a rescue mission and forget that the computer auto populates the 2nd Seat in Gemini...    Pop them out on a space walk.   This is far enough away Right?  RIGHT?

 

 

 

Why you using Windows Snip Tool? 

F2 to hide UI, then F1 to take a screenshot. SMH lol 

[Taco Salad]

25 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

Why you using Windows Snip Tool? 

F2 to hide UI, then F1 to take a screenshot. SMH lol 

I use snip cause it dumps straight to my clipboard instead of a folder.  And I swear it captures a better resolution than normal steam screenshots do.

[SLS is cool]

hello