[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[CobaltWolf]

1 minute ago, davidy12 said:

Already working on the Saturn I?

... no. Just talking about it. I still don't have a good idea of what scaling I'm going to use for the Apollo stuff.

And the more people ask for it the farther it gets pushed pack

EDIT: To respond to your edit, I think Saturn V 1st/2nd stage might wind up being 6.25m.

Edited February 10, 2016 by CobaltWolf

[Noah_Blade]

26 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

I was more referring to people that were getting excited for Saturn / Apollo. Hype is good and all but getting excited doesn't make it happen faster.

H-1 is actually getting made for the Atlas update (after Juno) so by the time I get to Saturn 1 all I'll have to model are the fuel tanks. Though I suppose I'd have to move such engines to a different shared folder or some such... The LR-87-1 is going to get attachment / shroud I just need to get around to it. Making Super Juno / Juno V first stage might be hard even if you have the correct tanks just because of the attach nodes.

I'm a little confused though... exactly how powerful would an H-1 have to be in game in order for a Saturn B-1 to work? That thing is huge... the second stage is 4 Atlas booster engines (or two Titan 1 engines? unclear).

A kerbal scale [64%] H-1 Engine would have 512 KN on take off each,

the Saturn 1 had 6 RL-10 A-3s for a 2nd stage [256 KN per engine in kerbal scale]

the Saturn 1B switched to a S-IVB Stage. [661.184 KN in kerbal scale]

[for reference]

 

Edited February 10, 2016 by Noah_Blade
Link Issues

[CobaltWolf]

2 minutes ago, Noah_Blade said:

A kerbal scale [64%] H-1 Engine would have 512 KN on take off each,

the Saturn 1 had 6 RL-10 A-3s for a 2nd stage [256 KN per engine in kerbal scale]

the Saturn 1B switched to a S-IVB Stage. [661.184 KN in kerbal scale]

You have to remember scaling is exponential since you're dealing with area (or rather, volume). That's why a Mainsail's thrust isn't 2x a Reliant's.

EDIT: @NecroBones , the only large sizes you use in SpaceY are 3.75m, 5m, and 7.5m, correct?

Edited February 10, 2016 by CobaltWolf

[Noah_Blade]

3 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

You have to remember scaling is exponential since you're dealing with area (or rather, volume). That's why a Mainsail's thrust isn't 2x a Reliant's.

In traditional scaling, kerbal is 64% scaled of RL [except for planets]

and i posted their max ISPs

Edited February 10, 2016 by Noah_Blade

[CobaltWolf]

3 minutes ago, Noah_Blade said:

In traditional scaling, kerbal is 64% scaled of RL [except for planets]

Yes, that works for dimensions but not necessarily things like fuel amounts, because those are volumetric / cubic scaling. And the fuel amount determines weight, which determines how much thrust an engines need to make a stage flyable. Again, my example would be that the Mainsail's thrust isn't twice that of a reliant.

EDIT2: Also I tend to favor 62.5% scaling for rocket parts as that makes things line up better with KSP sizes which are factors of 0.625.

EDIT: Yo we hot right now

Edited February 10, 2016 by CobaltWolf

[Noah_Blade]

I messed up my post there,

The values I show are what the thurst of a Rl-10 A3, and a J-2 in vaccum and a H-1 on takeoff {ASL} so they do work IF they get a exponent of ^3 per liter of fuel { im not sure if KSP uses liters or tons]

[NecroBones]

44 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

EDIT: @NecroBones , the only large sizes you use in SpaceY are 3.75m, 5m, and 7.5m, correct?

 

Yup.

[Foxxonius Augustus]

@CobaltWolf I don't have those numbers but I can run some tests and see, although I suspect it can.

1 hour ago, davidy12 said:

Already working on the Saturn I?

Also, just curious, will the Saturn V be 5m?

He isn't really working on Saturn-anything, he is working on Jupiter/Juno II. I have simply pointed out that with the new Jupiter/Juno parts we can assemble something akin to Super-Jupiter, Juno V-A or Juno V-B. Alternatively, as we don't have a E-1 analog, something like Saturn A-1 or Saturn B-1. Please note that all of these are rejected designs. Now if your are super industrious and construct the Saturn I first stage yourself out of 1 Jupiter tank and 8 Redstone tanks and some S-3D engines from Jupiter in place of the true H-1 engines then you could end up with something akin Saturn I. Saturn IB and Saturn V are a long ways away as Saturn IB would require the J-2 engine and Saturn V shares no parts and has no parts that are direct developments of any parts currently in BDB. That is all to say that The Great BlueDog is working on Jupiter/Juno II, not Saturn I, you can just get a Saturn I out of it if your clever.

EDIT: For clarity Saturn B-1 is not Saturn IB, they are very different.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Foxxonius Augustus

[sp1989]

Could you please please please consider doing an example craft folder. Or at least label in the part descriptions what goes to what? Its not difficult but I find myself in the VAB searching for parts for specific launchers and it would just be much more efficient if you could do craft files and or label the descriptions a little more clearly. P.S. I love the pack so much I have been using this pack ever since it was only an orange tank and an RD-180 engine. I love how far you guys have come.

[legoclone09]

6 minutes ago, sp1989 said:

Could you please please please consider doing an example craft folder. Or at least label in the part descriptions what goes to what? Its not difficult but I find myself in the VAB searching for parts for specific launchers and it would just be much more efficient if you could do craft files and or label the descriptions a little more clearly. P.S. I love the pack so much I have been using this pack ever since it was only an orange tank and an RD-180 engine. I love how far you guys have come.

@Sgt.Shutesie makes really nice craft files for the mod, he can link the dropbox for you (I forget where it is )

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

I really like the look of these parts!  Does a RO config exist for them?

[CobaltWolf]

29 minutes ago, Foxxonius Augustus said:

@CobaltWolf I don't have those numbers but I can run some tests and see, although I suspect it can.

He isn't really working on Saturn-anything, he is working on Jupiter/Juno II. I have simply pointed out that with the new Jupiter/Juno parts we can assemble something akin to Super-Jupiter, Juno V-A or Juno V-B. Alternatively, as we don't have a E-1 analog, something like Saturn A-1 or Saturn B-1. Please note that all of these are rejected designs. Now if your are super industrious and construct the Saturn I first stage yourself out of 1 Jupiter tank and 8 Redstone tanks and some S-3D engines from Jupiter in place of the true H-1 engines then you could end up with something akin Saturn I. Saturn IB and Saturn V are a long ways away as Saturn IB would require the J-2 engine and Saturn V shares no parts and has no parts that are direct developments of any parts currently in BDB. That is all to say that The Great BlueDog is working on Jupiter/Juno II, not Saturn I, you can just get a Saturn I out of it if your clever.

Very interesting. I love finding out all the interesting abandoned designs. I'll try and support as many as I can but any bespoke Super Juno / Juno V parts will probably be folded into the Saturn 1 development, since the tankage is the same just different mounting plates. E-1 is interesting. Would it be like a... maybe 1.7m engine? 1.875m? That will definitely get done.

I hesitate to say whether or not you could actually use BDB Redstone and Juno tanks to make a Saturn 1 stage. I think the various roundings in sizing would add up and make everything not fit together. The Saturn 1 / Juno V first stage will be getting a bespoke tank(s) anyways since it deserves a unique paint job.

@NecroBones dern. Looks like I'm striking it out alone.

@sp1989 There are several people (officially @Sgt.Shutesie and unofficially @Foxxonius Augustus, I believe others) who have been working on craft files. One of my goals for the next update is to find some better way to organize the mod. Perhaps I'll experiment tonight with changing the manufacturer names so that the different rocket series can be separated using the manufacturer tabs? I've been saying that for a while but haven't actually sat down to try it. Part of my insistence on not including such things was that while the parts are all based on real rockets, I would rather see them used in a lego mindset, with parts mix and matched from all over. But it seems the majority of the players swing the opposite way, so I'll try and better support that in the future.

@Mad Rocket Scientist I... Uh... Think @A1Ch1 was working on some. The most recent post regarding it is here. I would also love to see RO configs happen for the mod, but I am primarily an artist and need a ton of help just to get the stock configs working + balanced.

Also, my night class got cancelled. All this talk on the forums, combined with the progress I've made on the Juno parts, has returned some of my KSP hype. I'm still trying to get some work done at the lab but stay tuned for a post re: streaming tonight. Will try and stream as late as I can.

ALSO as a result of all the hubub that keeps happening here IRL, other people keep replying, which means I have to reply to them in this post, which gives the next person time to post... etc etc. So I'm hitting submit now. Laters!

Edited February 10, 2016 by CobaltWolf

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

3 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

[...]

@Mad Rocket Scientist I... Uh... Think @A1Ch1 was working on some. The most recent post regarding it is here. I would also love to see RO configs happen for the mod, but I am primarily an artist and need a ton of help just to get the stock configs working + balanced.

[...]

Okay, thanks!

[Sgt.Shutesie]

Ooo, now I'm official, I'll take that as a promotion! I'm mobile atm, but I'll get you the drop box link tonight sometime. @CobaltWolf could maybe put a in dev craft file link on the front page, if it isn't there already.

[OTmikhail]

Hey @CobaltWolf First off I LOVE THIS MOD, I've known about it for a while because of the Tantares forum, but finally got around to trying yours and OMG I am sooooooo happy to be able to make Thor, Atlas (Stage and a half! Not FASA) Able, Titan, Centaur, Agena (not just the docking version), I'm in love. Also after catching up on this forum and reading the latest developments I wanted to add my 2 cents.

36 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

One of my goals for the next update is to find some better way to organize the mod. Perhaps I'll experiment tonight with changing the manufacturer names so that the different rocket series can be separated using the manufacturer tabs? I've been saying that for a while but haven't actually sat down to try it. Part of my insistence on not including such things was that while the parts are all based on real rockets, I would rather see them used in a lego mindset, with parts mix and matched from all over. But it seems the majority of the players swing the opposite way, so I'll try and better support that in the future.

 I think this would be extremely helpful, although I totally understand your idea of having the lego mindset, which I'm barely starting to play with regarding these mods, most players, including myself, would like to fly the historical version these parts are based on at least once, then go lego crazy from there. May I suggest some of them have the associated military branch as the manufacturer for some of them (Kerbalized of course, like Kerbal Navy being the manufacturer of Vanguard) and then Kerbalized versions of companies (General Kerbantics) for the rest. Even without craft files different manufactures will help everyone to figure out what goes with what.

Keep up the great work!

[CobaltWolf]

40 minutes ago, Sgt.Shutesie said:

Ooo, now I'm official, I'll take that as a promotion! I'm mobile atm, but I'll get you the drop box link tonight sometime. @CobaltWolf could maybe put a in dev craft file link on the front page, if it isn't there already.

Is there some way to keep the link persistent so that it stays the same when you update it?

12 minutes ago, OTmikhail said:

Hey @CobaltWolf First off I LOVE THIS MOD, I've known about it for a while because of the Tantares forum, but finally got around to trying yours and OMG I am sooooooo happy to be able to make Thor, Atlas (Stage and a half! Not FASA) Able, Titan, Centaur, Agena (not just the docking version), I'm in love. Also after catching up on this forum and reading the latest developments I wanted to add my 2 cents.

 I think this would be extremely helpful, although I totally understand your idea of having the lego mindset, which I'm barely starting to play with regarding these mods, most players, including myself, would like to fly the historical version these parts are based on at least once, then go lego crazy from there. May I suggest some of them have the associated military branch as the manufacturer for some of them (Kerbalized of course, like Kerbal Navy being the manufacturer of Vanguard) and then Kerbalized versions of companies (General Kerbantics) for the rest. Even without craft files different manufactures will help everyone to figure out what goes with what.

Keep up the great work!

Glad to hear you're enjoying it!

The problem though is that many of the rockets have different manufacturers for each stage. I think I would divide it up based on rocket family, which we already have names for thankfully.

EDIT: I derped and forgot to say that I'd be starting to stream in a couple minutes

Edited February 10, 2016 by CobaltWolf

[Foxxonius Augustus]

@CobaltWolf So I have done some testing... In the following examples S-I is constructed using a Thor long tank in place of a Jupiter tank and the engines are Muo-89s each with a rated thrust of ~222 kN at sea level, giving a TWR at launch of 1.48. The S-I in the Saturn B-1 example also has 8 B109-D radial engines to simulate an up-rating the Muo-89s to ~264 kN at sea level giving a TWR at launch of 1.05.

Note: Stage 2 and stage 3 are inert.

Note: Stage 3 and stage 4 are inert.

Stage 2 on the Saturn B-1 example is made of 4 Prometheus II first stage tanks and powered by 4 Muo-89s (IRL they were LR-89s so we even have the correct engine already!)

All this put together leads me to believe you were right in KSP H-1 would have a thrust of 280-295.

[Sgt.Shutesie]

 

Here you go, the link. I don't make a new folder every time I put in craft files, so I don't know if that changes the link or not. Craft Files and Sub-Assemblies for all that wanted them. I will be gone from tomorrow til at the least Tuesday, so you could keep these on the front page, and I don't know what other rockets I'm making yet. 

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Enjoy!

 

[OTmikhail]

18 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Glad to hear you're enjoying it!

The problem though is that many of the rockets have different manufacturers for each stage. I think I would divide it up based on rocket family, which we already have names for thankfully.

I think it would be wise to divide them up by rocket family and I doubt anyone would mind if it isn't exact, although I'm curious what upper stages would have the same manufacturers as core stages. Would Able go with Vanguard? Ablestar with Thor? Agena with Atlas?, etc.? There is no need to have a bunch of different manufacturers, I look at Tantares which I believe has less than 4 different companies (Doesn't Beale use some of the Stock manufacturers as well? Rockomax Conglomerate or is that a Tantares invention?) But in any case don't let it be a source of stress. Leave Blue Dog Design Bureau as at least one of the manufactures and just come up with 2-4 more.

Suggestions:

United Wolf Alliance

Aerojet Rocketwurf

Kerbal Dynamics

Cobalt (as Convair)

15 hours ago, Sgt.Shutesie said:

Here you go, the link. I don't make a new folder every time I put in craft files, so I don't know if that changes the link or not. Craft Files and Sub-Assemblies for all that wanted them. I will be gone from tomorrow til at the least Tuesday, so you could keep these on the front page, and I don't know what other rockets I'm making yet. 

Thanks for the Craft Files but the Sub-Assemblies link doesn't work. Says the folder doesn't exist?

Edited February 11, 2016 by OTmikhail

[VenomousRequiem]

@OTmikhail United Wolf Alliance sounds like a furry convention.

[sp1989]

Another question. When do you think the IVAs are gonna be done for your pods? Pardon me for not knowing the name but your gemini capsule alike is gorgeous and I just cant bring my self to use it because I can't see my Kerbals and I can't IVA. Also if you made a Gemini alike service module that would be quite awesome too. Thanks for all the hard work. 

[VenomousRequiem]

Just now, sp1989 said:

Another question. When do you think the IVAs are gonna be done for your pods? Pardon me for not knowing the name but your gemini capsule alike is gorgeous and I just cant bring my self to use it because I can't see my Kerbals and I can't IVA. Also if you made a Gemini alike service module that would be quite awesome too. Thanks for all the hard work. 

There probably won't be IVAs any time soon, if at all.

They're horrible to model and take up a lot of texture space, but I'm sure you could like... jack the Tantares Gemini IVA and edit the .cfg of Karrot and have it use that, though it may look a little off.

[CobaltWolf]

30 minutes ago, VenomousRequiem said:

@OTmikhail United Wolf Alliance sounds like a furry convention.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

30 minutes ago, sp1989 said:

Another question. When do you think the IVAs are gonna be done for your pods? Pardon me for not knowing the name but your gemini capsule alike is gorgeous and I just cant bring my self to use it because I can't see my Kerbals and I can't IVA. Also if you made a Gemini alike service module that would be quite awesome too. Thanks for all the hard work. 

See Venom's response. I can fix the 'can't see the kerbals and can't IVA' thing easily without creating and IVA though. On a side note, you can right click the hatch to EVA kerbals. The Karrot is going to become less Gemini-like, and closer to the HGR Radish, as a result of:

On 2/6/2016 at 6:23 PM, Beale said:

Potential to put to you guys!

Gemini remake, I will make the parts for BDB (I.E. remove the parts from Tantares).

BDB is already much better suited to accommodate it (wide selection of 1.5m parts and already existing Titan launch vehicles).

Can someone confirm that the links for @Sgt.Shutesie's craft files work? I'll link them in the OP in big bold letters.

[davidy12]

1 hour ago, OTmikhail said:

I think it would be wise to divide them up by rocket family and I doubt anyone would mind if it isn't exact, although I'm curious what upper stages would have the same manufacturers as core stages. Would Able go with Vanguard? Ablestar with Thor? Agena with Atlas?, etc.? There is no need to have a bunch of different manufacturers, I look at Tantares which I believe has less than 4 different companies (Doesn't Beale use some of the Stock manufacturers as well? Rockomax Conglomerate or is that a Tantares invention?) But in any case don't let it be a source of stress. Leave Blue Dog Design Bureau as at least one of the manufactures and just come up with 2-4 more.

Suggestions:

United Wolf Alliance

Aerojet Rocketwurf

Kerbal Dynamics

Cobalt (as Convair)

Thanks for the Craft Files but the Sub-Assemblies link doesn't work. Says the folder doesn't exist?

I agree (on the names).

Edited February 11, 2016 by davidy12