[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[Guest]

@CobaltWolf My advice for the foil is: use the new shader.  Really, there's no good reason not to. It's the only way you're going to get decent metallic anything in KSP. With ReStock using it, stock using it, everything by @Nertea using it, it's really the best solution. Seriously, the only thing that beats it is Textures Unlimited. With its inclusion into stock, we really shouldn't have to do with the excuse for a foil that was the previous state of art. Shinies FTW.  

You don't have to change everything at once, but do consider updating the older parts, too. At the very least, foil and solar panels should use the new shader to match up to ReStock. Brushed metal, while doable, suffers from the shader's limitations somewhat. 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Guest

[CobaltWolf]

5 minutes ago, Dragon01 said:

Really, there's no good reason not to.

 

(the shader has no f&!@#$g roughness map input)

Edited June 4, 2019 by CobaltWolf

[Guest]

I know, but that part was specifically referring to foil, which, as Nertea's forays into the subject demonstrated, doesn't need it. Neither do the solar panels, what with them being largely flat. Brushed metal does, and this is why I'm not yet suggesting migrating the whole Atlas tank lineup. ReStock and Nertea's mods use it sparingly in this capacity for that very reason, but there's no such disadvantage for gold foil. Indeed, when I was experimenting with jury-rigging textures for TU, flattening the roughness map was necessary to get it to look decent. So I wouldn't worry about that. This shader gives amazing results in areas which were previously outright impossible to get to look right.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Guest

[CobaltWolf]

 

[Rory Yammomoto]

Congratulations on a nice and even 512 pages, Cobalt.

[CobaltWolf]

Decided to try and do a little dev stream tonight! Either going to be working on UA120 variants or the single mount engines (any preferences?) - anyways, going live now on Twitch!

[Pappystein]

On 6/3/2019 at 4:27 PM, Friznit said:

I was afraid you might say that.  Now I have to hope it's not all horribly wrong.  As said, I'm more than happy to do the copy/pasta into the official wiki to fill in the gaps, save you guys the trouble.  Anyway, in the meantime here goes.  Remember folks, this is strictly my hash up.  Don't go bothering the mod authors about it please.  Any errors/omissions/failed attributions are entirely my fault - just point them out and I'll fix.  No drama llama.

Unofficial BDB Wiki (and some other bits)

That is an impressive amount of work Friznit.   ***GREAT JOB***     Given my passion for Saturn II I immediately jumped to that section.   If I could make a "simple" suggestion.   Break that section up into Saturn II,  OTHER  INT-x proposals, and MLV as in 3 sub sections on the same page.   Basically take your build list and break it into 3 consecutive lists with a Title above each for what subset your parts are for.

 

I skipped Titan II/III/IV given they are still under-development, but did look at LDC.   Only note is that the LDC was never solidified as a specific size/configuration.  some of the MOL era LDCs had 4x LR91s in the upper stage, others had 6x LR87s in the lower stage with a LH-2 LR-87 (twin chamber) in the upper stage.   Maybe a simple blurb about this being @CobaltWolf's preferred size for LDC?   After all LDC (in KSP scale) ran from ~2.125m all the way up to 4.75m depending on the day of the week what program it was under and who the conceptual engineer in charge of it's development at the time was.    

 

SO to end, that is a great bit of work Friznit.   You use the correct BDB names for the parts which is awesome for everyone not useing the BDB_Realnames patch from the BDB Extras folder..    You have good flow through the document and you even cover some brief history on the parts (enough to tease the reader into going out and doing their own research!

On 6/3/2019 at 12:27 PM, CobaltWolf said:

Back from my fishing trip! We couldn't find many fish that were biting, but the company was good and the trip was relaxing nonetheless. Not too much to reply to, thankfully.

Welcome back!   I promise we didn't try to burn this place down with you gone!

 

 

 

On 6/3/2019 at 12:27 PM, CobaltWolf said:

I took another whack at making the single-mount LR-87 and am much happier with the result this time!
The LR-87-LH2 version will be the same, but with a Titan 1/2-style thrust chamber and nozzle.

 

Finally, something I need some feedback on: The vacuum variants.
From left to right:
- the normal AJ11 nozzle extension.
- Proposed AJ11-Vac (for LDC Titan second stage) nozzle extension.
- Proposed LH2-Vac nozzle extension.
- LR-91-AJ11 for comparison.
What do people think of these? Obviously they need fresh textures, but I'm going a little Rule of Cool with these. I kinda want the gray part of the LH2-Vac nozzle to be carbon-carbon like an RL10B2..

 

Love the Single bell LR-87.   Don't think it (as it stands) needs anything else except for when you change the extension for V-O use. (of course that is a 1 view picture so reserve further comment )

LH2 Extension and the idea of Carbon Carbon.   First: It is your mod so yours is the final choice.  now Opinion.   Carbon Carbon was first introduced in 1976 in the world of F1 racing and into the Aerospace world with the RL10B-2 engine which is what late 1980s at the earliest?   Given the exhaust temperature and the fact that Aerojet was in Bed with the Silica composite companies right up until the Aerojet-Rocketdyne merger.....   White like the early LR-91-AJ-5/7.... (runs and hides!)      Now this is more a Saturn Alt-History question than a Titan question but will there be a DUAL chamber LR-87-LH-2 so we can propel our S-IVB proper like with the Best LH-2 engine available?

 

 

 

[CobaltWolf]

[Zorg]

Wow these are looking real nice Cobalt! I think Pappystein has hit upon a very nice idea to make the LH2 vac engine white... I absolutely love the Titan II engines to bits, white is such an unusual colour for an engine bell and it looks damn good.

[josselin2196]

Bluedog is one of my must have mod in my modlist, It will be perfect if it have IVA but well IVA are apparently complicate so prefer have beautiful texture than rushed IVA

[DriftedCougar]

Oohh neat LR-something hydrogen engines! I do know what to use that for….

[Friznit]

17 hours ago, Pappystein said:

That is an impressive amount of work Friznit.  ...

Thanks for the encouragement - it means much coming from someone with such detailed knowledge as yourself!  Please feel free to put any suggestions and feedback (or contributions!) in an issue on github and I'll continue to refine it.  I'm also looking for some Bonkers Rocket™ designs using BDB parts to show off how Kerbal it can be, so nutty images welcome!

[Guest]

17 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

(*LR-87 snip*)

Nice work. I'm not sure if I mentioned that before, but one thing that looks kind of odd is the blue stripe on the chamber. Could you see how it'd look without? You really don't want to paint over anything that gets that hot, and I think that a pure white chamber would suit the engine better, anyway.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Guest

[CobaltWolf]

12 hours ago, Zorg said:

Wow these are looking real nice Cobalt! I think Pappystein has hit upon a very nice idea to make the LH2 vac engine white... I absolutely love the Titan II engines to bits, white is such an unusual colour for an engine bell and it looks damn good.

I think I agree, I'll see what it looks like with the LR-91-AJ5 style bell (though the more research I do the more I think the AJ5 is supposed to have a brown bell so hecc me I guess)

 

8 hours ago, josselin2196 said:

Bluedog is one of my must have mod in my modlist, It will be perfect if it have IVA but well IVA are apparently complicate so prefer have beautiful texture than rushed IVA

Thank you! I currently have no plans to make IVAs, as you said they are a crazy amount of work just for a basic IVA let alone the kind that IVA-only people would want to fly from.

 

5 hours ago, DriftedCougar said:

Oohh neat LR-something hydrogen engines! I do know what to use that for….

Mind sharing with the class?

 

2 hours ago, Friznit said:

Thanks for the encouragement - it means much coming from someone with such detailed knowledge as yourself!  Please feel free to put any suggestions and feedback (or contributions!) in an issue on github and I'll continue to refine it.  I'm also looking for some Bonkers Rocket™ designs using BDB parts to show off how Kerbal it can be, so nutty images welcome!

+1 for awesome new unofficial wiki

 

1 hour ago, Dragon01 said:

Nice work. I'm not sure if I mentioned that before, but one thing that looks kind of odd is the blue stripe on the chamber. Could you see how it'd look without? You really don't want to paint over anything that gets that hot, and I think that a pure white chamber would suit the engine better, anyway.

Yeah b-but LH2 color coding

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Yeah b-but LH2 color coding

You can put it on the "mounted" thrust plate, if you're planning that variant. It makes a lot more sense than painting the chamber itself, which would, IRL, probably result in a RUD. There's a reason Russians label their engines on the lower nozzle (where it's not all that hot) and everyone else doesn't do that at all.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Guest

[Beale]

27 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Yeah b-but LH2 color coding

Sorry, your opinion doesn't matter.

Please add thermal blankets too.

[Guest]

Thermal blankets go on F-1.  I tried to find an excuse to add them to Titan, but I couldn't. Silly Americans took until Saturn V to figure out how great they are.  

[CobaltWolf]

11 minutes ago, Dragon01 said:

Thermal blankets go on F-1.  I tried to find an excuse to add them to Titan, but I couldn't. Silly Americans took until Saturn V to figure out how great they are.  

(they do go on Titan but we talk about it even less than the F-1s)

[DriftedCougar]

11 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Mind sharing with the class?

 

Heh i could actauly show pictures if they where in the dev release 

Anyway it would an Chryslus lower stage with the polaris engine removed and an hydrogen LR-91, with another upper stage on top, no idea what to use for that yet though..

Edited June 7, 2019 by DriftedCougar
oops forgot the engine change

[Pappystein]

On 6/6/2019 at 4:56 PM, Dragon01 said:

Thermal blankets go on F-1.  I tried to find an excuse to add them to Titan, but I couldn't. Silly Americans took until Saturn V to figure out how great they are.  

Naw even early Atlas had em!   Ugly slapped together squares adhered to the bells.

 

On 6/5/2019 at 9:45 PM, CobaltWolf said:

Since others mentioned it....   I LIKE the blue stripe.   But I do still think the LH2 should be white extension.   And we have plenty of Photos of the White LR91-AJ-5 on Titan II missiles.   It is only when we get into the AJ-9 used on the First Generation Titan III that we see the white being replaced by the reddish-brown color.  I have an old book that has a couple of Titan Photos that you can see a White engine bell under a Transtage....  and others where you can see the Long UA-1205 TVC tank and a brownish engine bell.     The only problem is it appears that at-least a few (5 or 6?) early Titan IIIs used LR91-AJ-5s or AJ-7s and not LR91-AJ-9s for the upper stage.    The LR91-AJ-9 appears to be a LR91-AJ5 or AJ-7 that has a new ablative skirt and nothing else...   almost, within 1-2%, identical figures.

 

And like every Ish, I don't mean my Great Grandma Ish!

 

I know I know the -9 is kind of a stand-up guy illegitimate child in the realm of Titan.  It was used for approximately 40 launches.  Conversely the AJ-11s were used for close to 150? (I am not looking at a launch report right now so am not exactly sure.)

 

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Pappystein

[DriftedCougar]

One quick thing, @CobaltWolf if you change the development link from this: https://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau/tree/master  to this: https://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau/tree/Development the link wil lead to the dev version then.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Pappystein said:

Naw even early Atlas had em!   Ugly slapped together squares adhered to the bells.

Interesting, do you have any pictures of that? Titan launches in particular, at least the pictures I've seen, clearly show the chambers and nozzles uncovered at launch. Atlas and Thor are harder to discern. 

[Pappystein]

13 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

Interesting, do you have any pictures of that? Titan launches in particular, at least the pictures I've seen, clearly show the chambers and nozzles uncovered at launch. Atlas and Thor are harder to discern. 

Actually you can see pictures of what Titan Used... NOTE to my knowledge it was only used on SRM launches so not used on the I/II/IIIB/23B/24B/33B/34B     ALSO I should mention that It is not to protect the engine while it is running, but rather in flight BEFORE it is running.

Just one of the pictures....  It looks like Metal but whatever it is covering the engines is Painted White.    In Closeups you can see a line of what I assume are rivets running down a seam on one side of the engine.   What ever the Fasteners are they are heavily covered by that white paint enough that they just look like bumps on a strip on one side.   

PS Please note my next Truck is in the background in this picture (See Avatar....  Has 10 Wheels = Truck! )

 

RE Atlas, The Pictures I had found are/were on the Astronautix Site... I THINK.   I found them when I was researching Atlas like 6 years ago when FASA was the only place to get a true 1.5 Stage Atlas.     However it appears in the cleanup/re-do of the site that they have been replaced by "cleaner looking" graphics.   It was a close up of a LR-105 and you could make out part of one of the LR-89s each covered by a silver "square patch" looking pieces that had several corners pulled up.   I ASSUME that was a picture of Batting/Blanket (Batting because one piece did not cover the entire engine bell.)  I did a quick search today on the LR-105, LR-89, MA-3 and Atlas and in each case every link to an engine shows the same graphic of engines+Turbos and fuel/oxidizer lines only....  Great if you want to make a 3d Model of the engine I assume but not so hot when looking for "real" pictures.  

I also checked Gunter's page (skyrocket.de) but here all the photos are too far a way and too low rez to see anything on the engines.

To describe it further the photo I saw had the squares (silver one side Black on the other) stuck arround the upper bell portion of the LR-105 and about half way down the LR-89 booster engines.   I know the alternate side was black because in the photo I saw you can see several corners that are folded over (not adheared down.)   I assume the Black color is some sort of glue to hold them on and transfer heat.   If you have any early F-1 photos with their insulation on it you know what I am talking about (with the patches corners being peeled back.)

I know the picture was of some sort of MA-3 engine because the LR-105 had the Vortex-Generators(?) in the ring around the bottom of the engine.

Excepting the NASA commercial Delta I and later launches I have never seen insulation on a Thor Rocket.   Maybe the extra thermal protection for these early Rockets is a NASA only thing (IDK it is just a random thought.)

 

[CobaltWolf]

Heard y'all like LR-87s so I'm making 4 more over on Twitch.

[KerbalKore]

https://imgur.com/a/TxmKb6s

Some awesome images i got with BDB, Real Plume, Restock, And Modular Launch Pads.