[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[DaveyJ576]

I think it is safe to say that those who use BDB do so because they like the historical aspect of the mod. That being the case, you all might be interested in the following article by none other than Wayne Hale, former Space Shuttle Program Manager and Flight Director at NASA.

Pilot Error is Never Root Cause | Wayne Hale's Blog (wordpress.com)

During my misadventure with the Lunar Orbiter/Atlas Agena that I described above, I was trying to use his "seven whys" of accident investigation. @biohazard15 provided the insight necessary to get to the7th why and the final root cause.

Wayne has some other very interesting stuff on his blog and is an excellent writer.

[EDS_Pilot]

Recently built a Delta IV with 2 more boosters on it, with 4 of the Titan UA1208 boosters, with an adapter to put a Saturn S-II on there. I don't have a screenshot for it because I don't really know how to put it on Imgur.

Edited May 5, 2021 by EDS_Pilot

[Avalon304]

9 hours ago, Zorg said:

Did you install the saturn rescale patch in BDB_Extras  by any chance? stuff in extras is not supposed to be installed unless you know what you want and know what you're doing. If you didnt install that the included saturn craft files are perfectly fine.

 

 

I apparently did, but I remember deleting that from the extras... I must not have. Thanks.

[Heliotrope]

Sorry to ask if this has been asked before, but are there any plans for the Saturn 1-D? I think a stage and a half Saturn would be really cool! I understand if not though, modelling and getting it to work would be a pain. Just curious! C:

[SpaceFace545]

7 minutes ago, Heliotrope said:

Sorry to ask if this has been asked before, but are there any plans for the Saturn 1-D? I think a stage and a half Saturn would be really cool! I understand if not though, modelling and getting it to work would be a pain. Just curious! C:

check here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PwBgY6SWmrqPFAQ4OMHrwMrEJtN1CjBwg2ZiiJAzrtE/edit

Its been mentioned before but im not sure if its gonna be implemented. but stage and a half saturn is really cool.

[Jcking]

Cobalt posted a picture of Saturn I-D long ago, but I think that got put on hold.

[JoeSheridan]

36 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said:

Its been mentioned before but im not sure if its gonna be implemented. but stage and a half saturn is really cool.

 

28 minutes ago, Jcking said:

Cobalt posted a picture of Saturn I-D long ago, but I think that got put on hold.

Could be possible that we get it but Cobalt said that he will work on the replacements for everything that´s in the mod now. So: The Saturn Series that flew, Skylab, Apollo´s, The ETS stuff (Spacelab, Apollo Block III, III+,IV, V, The Ardvarks, Saturn IC and Multibody. ), all of that gets done first.

New additions will come after that. He even mentioned that there is likely a possibility for Direct Ascent Gemini, but that this would ( IF IT COMES) be AFTER the new Saturn stuff is ready because the new S-IVB diameter sets a design-limit for that one. Same goes probably for the I-D. Most of the stuff for that launcher is in the mod when the functionality we got now is reached in the new version. Missing parts can be made later. After the core-stuff is ready and testet.

Edited May 6, 2021 by JoeSheridan

[Pappystein]

CobaltWolf has put a lot of effort into the Saturn ID so I doubt it will be far away as far as release time.  It might not release with the Saturn Revamp but probably one of the first things thereafter (totally my guess.)

 

Personally other than the BigG Saturn sized Service Module I am hoping for Big Apollo and better yet RECOVERABLE Saturn

 

[JoeSheridan]

19 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

ersonally other than the BigG Saturn sized Service Module I am hoping for Big Apollo and better yet RECOVERABLE Saturn

I would love to have a Big Apollo. It would be a nice follow on to the Block III+, IV, V for tourist missions which need more capacity. 5 Kerbs are sometimes just not enough and iam not so much into high capacity spaceplanes so i use  the MRK from Knes, and ReDirects Orion for that missions but there are "just" 6 seats too, and the later one is a bit too modern for some missions, to mee i looks a bite awkward to pack it onto a M02 ( Not using the SLS for LKO because it´s to expansive for that and i will never pack kerbals on the Ares I, that sun of a **** is nice for cargo but no good for Kerbs . 

And the recoverable Saturn: I would like to have it but i am thinking that it could be a little bit too futuristic / modern for Cobalt (Just a gues, please don´t pack me on a bonfire if i am wrong )

Edited May 6, 2021 by JoeSheridan

[Jcking]

12 minutes ago, JoeSheridan said:

I would love to have a Big Apollo. It would be a nice follow on to the Block III+, IV, V for tourist missions which need more capacity. 5 Kerbs are sometimes just not enough and iam not so much into high capacity spaceplanes so i use  the MRK from Knes, and ReDirects Orion for that missions but there are "just" 6 seats too, and the later one is a bit too modern for some missions, to mee i looks a bite awkward to pack it onto a M02 ( Not using the SLS for LKO because it´s to expansive for that and i will never pack kerbals on the Ares I, that sun of a **** is nice for cargo but no good for Kerbs . 

And the recoverable Saturn: I would like to have it but i am thinking that it could be a little bit too futuristic / modern for Cobalt (Just a gues, please don´t pack me on a bonfire if i am wrong )

Big Apollo would likely not have as many crew as depicted in the artwork, given that Big G only holds 6, yet the study depicted a maximum crew capacity of 16.

[JoeSheridan]

9 hours ago, Jcking said:

Big Apollo would likely not have as many crew as depicted in the artwork, given that Big G only holds 6, yet the study depicted a maximum crew capacity of 16.

I think that too, personally i would set the number of seats to 8, possibly 9. But that would still be a HUGE upgrade. I use the Tourism Plus contracts and thinking about launching a spacecamp in just 2 launches intead of 3 or 4: I want it

[CobaltWolf]

19 hours ago, Heliotrope said:

Sorry to ask if this has been asked before, but are there any plans for the Saturn 1-D? I think a stage and a half Saturn would be really cool! I understand if not though, modelling and getting it to work would be a pain. Just curious! C:

19 hours ago, JoeSheridan said:

Could be possible that we get it but Cobalt said that he will work on the replacements for everything that´s in the mod now. So: The Saturn Series that flew, Skylab, Apollo´s, The ETS stuff (Spacelab, Apollo Block III, III+,IV, V, The Ardvarks, Saturn IC and Multibody. ), all of that gets done first.

New additions will come after that. He even mentioned that there is likely a possibility for Direct Ascent Gemini, but that this would ( IF IT COMES) be AFTER the new Saturn stuff is ready because the new S-IVB diameter sets a design-limit for that one. Same goes probably for the I-D. Most of the stuff for that launcher is in the mod when the functionality we got now is reached in the new version. Missing parts can be made later. After the core-stuff is ready and testet.

13 hours ago, Pappystein said:

Personally other than the BigG Saturn sized Service Module I am hoping for Big Apollo and better yet RECOVERABLE Saturn

S-1D is definitely happening but yeah, probably as a top priority for the next round of parts after we've caught back up. But it's up there since it isn't a particularly hard thing to make and I know it's very popular/requested.

 

13 hours ago, Pappystein said:

Personally other than the BigG Saturn sized Service Module I am hoping for Big Apollo and better yet RECOVERABLE Saturn

13 hours ago, JoeSheridan said:

And the recoverable Saturn: I would like to have it but i am thinking that it could be a little bit too futuristic / modern for Cobalt (Just a gues, please don´t pack me on a bonfire if i am wrong )

It's definitely in the cards at some point, more a matter of figuring out how/where to make it happen. This isn't flyback Saturns - this would be the variety of recovery plans for the S-1, S-1C and S-IVB using parachutes and heatshields and such.

 

13 hours ago, JoeSheridan said:

I would love to have a Big Apollo. It would be a nice follow on to the Block III+, IV, V for tourist missions which need more capacity. 5 Kerbs are sometimes just not enough and iam not so much into high capacity spaceplanes so i use  the MRK from Knes, and ReDirects Orion for that missions but there are "just" 6 seats too, and the later one is a bit too modern for some missions, to mee i looks a bite awkward to pack it onto a M02 ( Not using the SLS for LKO because it´s to expansive for that and i will never pack kerbals on the Ares I, that sun of a **** is nice for cargo but no good for Kerbs .

13 hours ago, Jcking said:

Big Apollo would likely not have as many crew as depicted in the artwork, given that Big G only holds 6, yet the study depicted a maximum crew capacity of 16.

3 hours ago, JoeSheridan said:

I think that too, personally i would set the number of seats to 8, possibly 9. But that would still be a HUGE upgrade. I use the Tourism Plus contracts and thinking about launching a spacecamp in just 2 launches intead of 3 or 4: I want it

I never really planned on doing Big Apollo, I've never seen much about it. Part of why Big G is cool is that in Kerbal terms it's sort of interchangeable with the Apollo capsule, so anything I make for one hopefully applies to both? But Big Apollo throws that out the window, where now I'm suddenly making a whole new set of parts for that and the SM and such.

I hadn't thought about career tourist contracts tho, that definitely makes me pause a bit.

 

 

[Pappystein]

14 hours ago, JoeSheridan said:

I would love to have a Big Apollo. It would be a nice follow on to the Block III+, IV, V for tourist missions which need more capacity. 5 Kerbs are sometimes just not enough and iam not so much into high capacity spaceplanes so i use  the MRK from Knes, and ReDirects Orion for that missions but there are "just" 6 seats too, and the later one is a bit too modern for some missions, to mee i looks a bite awkward to pack it onto a M02 ( Not using the SLS for LKO because it´s to expansive for that and i will never pack kerbals on the Ares I, that sun of a **** is nice for cargo but no good for Kerbs . 

And the recoverable Saturn: I would like to have it but i am thinking that it could be a little bit too futuristic / modern for Cobalt (Just a gues, please don´t pack me on a bonfire if i am wrong )

 

14 hours ago, Jcking said:

Big Apollo would likely not have as many crew as depicted in the artwork, given that Big G only holds 6, yet the study depicted a maximum crew capacity of 16.

Big G was configurable.   With the small SM (not the Saturn Launched Conic or Cylindrical to conic SMs) the BigG capsule itself  was needed for supplies.   (you know, Water, Oxygen food etc for the space station.)   WIth the bigger capsules more space could be devoted to crew.   The 4.25m Cylindrical SM (KSP scale) being the largets volume of the 3 SMs (thus capable of the most crew)

With the Bigger Service Modules 8 comfortably or 10 or more with some crowding in the back row is easily possible with the Big G capsule.   Of course that is Humans not Kerbals.   

 

Something to think about here  Big Apollo (I don't know why I brought that up!)  Is actually the Eros Flyby capsule.   NASA was concerned 3 people would be too much of a workload (keeping watch) to make a flyby of the Eros Asteroid.   So they sketched up a new capsule loosely based on the Apollo Capsule.      That concept was latter branded Big Apollo and unlike Big G there was no "real" engineering done on it.  Just conceptual engineering.   WORSE it isn't an attachment to the existing Apollo Capsule, an entirely new capsule would need to be made (2 in front 6 in back with a dual conic shape)  In the case of Big Gemini we not only have real engineering documents we also have a real mockup.  

https://www.wired.com/2012/05/manned-asteroid-flyby-mission-1966/

http://spaceflighthistory.blogspot.com/2015/09/the-martian-adventure-to-mars-by-way-of.html

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/A-Manned-Flyby-Mission-to-Eros-Smith/954e1293c9a72ad03487d58906d2da5a038cfae0

I think the most interesting thing about this is when returned to earth the Astronauts would be rescued by a Giant version of the HL-10 or X-24 Lifting Bodies.  Giant HL-10 is shown in the documents.   IE the Eros Command Module is not meant to survive re-entry.

I have found a few actual NASA documents on the Eros and latter Big Apollo, but all of them are summed up nicely in the three links above.  

 

 

NOTE:  For getting crew to a Space Station I think the ETS Apollo capsules are fine.  In conjunction with Aardvark Deliveries.  However Big G has the potential to replace, in one launch  BOTH of those... So Personally:   I prefer addition of the two larger SMs and an expanded Crew option for the Big G Addon tank over Eros/BigApollo.    Also Fewer new parts needed.   And we can always use the Venus Flyby module to replicate the Eros Flyby....  well ISH

 

Oh and Cobalt, sorry I mentioned the Big Apollo.   A) I don't know why I did so (I typed off my mouth I guess) and B) of all the "add on" things you could do to Saturn, it is one of the least interesting given it isn't recoverable. 

 

  

 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Pappystein

[alberro+]

I know that this has been asked a million and one times before, but now that we’re actually getting a Saturn revamp, is there any chance of a Nova? If there isn’t, no problem, I’d just really like to see something similar implemented.

[golkaidakhaana]

5 minutes ago, alberro+ said:

I know that this has been asked a million and one times before, but now that we’re actually getting a Saturn revamp, is there any chance of a Nova? If there isn’t, no problem, I’d just really like to see something similar implemented.

There was discussion of Nova literally a few posts up

[Spaceman.Spiff]

8 minutes ago, alberro+ said:

a Nova?

bruh

[Jacktical]

Just now, Spaceman.Spiff said:

bruh

bruh

[Jcking]

You'd think it would be in the FAQ given how often the NOVA question comes up.

[Pappystein]

30 minutes ago, Jcking said:

You'd think it would be in the FAQ given how often the NOVA question comes up.

A line like....

"While some parts of the Nova Program may be in BDB a full up Nova Rocket in any form, including the Saturn C-8, is not planned nor will requests for this be implemented/actioned on."

 

FWIW,   M-1,  J-2L, J-2T and J-2X Airmat are all parts of NOVA.     But, so is F-1

Saturn MLV just co-opted the J-2 variants and M-1 well...    Just like Project Nova co-opted the F-1 (it is literally the only part of Saturn or anything to do with Von Braun in the ACTUAL NOVA contracts)

 

[alberro+]

Sorry, I didn’t see the previous discussion.

[Heliotrope]

Saturn MLV with uprated engines has enough power to be a Nova class craft, especially if you add the boosters, so custom parts for a Nova are not needed nor realistic IMO. IIRC it was merely a study of a type of craft but with the development of Saturn they realized they could just uprate the existing rocket line.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Heliotrope

[Pappystein]

3 minutes ago, alberro+ said:

Sorry, I didn’t see the previous discussion.

 

Just now, Heliotrope said:

Saturn MLV with uprated engines has enough power to be a Nova class craft, especially if you add the boosters, so custom parts for a Nova are not needed nor realistic IMO.

Alberro+   It is OK    But yes it is a oft requested request...  

First off, FTR Nova is NOT a saturn Rocket (don't show me your Saturn C-8 rocket proposals and call em Nova... the C-8 is lumped into the Nova Program because a lower level NASA Flunkie caved to congressional pressure to include it in NOVA.   AFTER THE NOVA PROGRAM WAS DONE!

Sea Dragon has more in common with Nova than anything from the Saturn program... excepting the engines

Heliotrope, that is exactly my take on what Saturn MLV is.   Lets take the pie in the sky program known as NOVA and make it a buildable sustainable program.... AKA Saturn MLV

 

 

 

 

[Starhelperdude]

will the most powerful saturn that we will be able to build be a MLV variant?

also, I don't like the nova designs, like the srb ones, they look more than sounding rockets to me than cool saturn rockets

and I'm not a fan of c-8

also, there is a build guide for a rocket on bdb wiki that shows a scaled down S-II with 4 engines, what was that?

[Pappystein]

12 minutes ago, Starhelperdude said:

will the most powerful saturn that we will be able to build be a MLV variant?

also, there is a build guide for a rocket on bdb wiki that shows a scaled down S-II with 4 engines, what was that?

I can't answer your first question but I am guessing so (completely a guess)   TO your second question, care to provide a link?

 

[Starhelperdude]

this one, from the Apollo C-series