[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[CobaltWolf]

So, I was thinking about that "utilization" and "focusing on stuff in line with KSP1's gameplay" discussion, and also thinking about ALSEP at the same time, and now I'm streaming?

 

[lemon cup]

1 hour ago, DaveyJ576 said:

“Try SCE to AUX.”

“Err, wrong problem, Houston.”

*pats on back from space*

[Staticalliam7]

On 2/18/2022 at 11:06 AM, Pappystein said:

Yep, I just wanted to take the Satire/comedy a bit further     Since we now have proof of where WayUglyOverhype comes from

*for those not in the know*

And yes, that will be what I call that Rocket from now on.    What many people call "C-8" was just a "comparative" study to show what would happen if we went for a Direct Ascent Moon landing vs smaller rockets and EOR (latter LOR) mission profiles.    The exact profile of what people call C-8 is in the C-2 Initial Design documents.    It clearly states that it (Direct Ascent) is over-expensive, over-large and not able to meet any of the needs to get to space as laid out by either the Eisenhower and latter Kennedy Administrations....  EG no Moon before 72 at the earliest!   

*Ok stepping off the soapbox cause you and I are on the same page Staticalliam7 *

so i've been thinking about it lately and I think i'm gonna make a mod for nova concepts and such during summer break. 

So is astronautix.com a reliable source?

[Yuriy Istochnikov]

58 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

So, I was thinking about that "utilization" and "focusing on stuff in line with KSP1's gameplay" discussion, and also thinking about ALSEP at the same time, and now I'm streaming?

 

A continuation of the Surface Experiment Pack?

[Jcking]

19 minutes ago, Staticalliam7 said:

so i've been thinking about it lately and I think i'm gonna make a mod for nova concepts and such during summer break. 

So is astronautix.com a reliable source?

For Post-Saturn Novas, this is the best I've got for Martin, and for GD check SDASM's Flickr if you want to know what they were looking at. https://web.archive.org/web/20100519195640/http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19750065864_1975065864.pdf

[Staticalliam7]

Just now, Jcking said:

For Post-Saturn Novas, this is the best I've got for Martin, and for GD check SDASM's Flickr if you want to know what they were looking at. https://web.archive.org/web/20100519195640/http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19750065864_1975065864.pdf

thanks

[CessnaSkyhawk]

18 hours ago, Adam-Kerman said:

ASTP Saturn 1B Stack is just not Reaching Orbit

all of these minus the weight of Launch Umbilical Tower

it just ain't reaching Orbit

Assuming you are using Skyhawk Science System Az50/NTO rather than Real Fuels, it's possible that could be the issue. There are slight density differences between that and stock LFO (Kerosene/LOX in SSS, but the only change is the name, mass ratio is the same), so if you're just barely missing orbit, it could be due to that messing up MechJeb.

[Adam-Kerman]

15 minutes ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

Assuming you are using Skyhawk Science System Az50/NTO rather than Real Fuels, it's possible that could be the issue. There are slight density differences between that and stock LFO (Kerosene/LOX in SSS, but the only change is the name, mass ratio is the same), so if you're just barely missing orbit, it could be due to that messing up MechJeb.

as it turns out, i do have Skyhawk Science system
 

and i play in Sandbox, so is it just a Tech Tree?
so i can delete it and replace it with Real Fuels or would mess things up?

Edited February 19, 2022 by Adam-Kerman

[CessnaSkyhawk]

2 hours ago, Adam-Kerman said:

as it turns out, i do have Skyhawk Science system
 

and i play in Sandbox, so is it just a Tech Tree?
so i can delete it and replace it with Real Fuels or would mess things up?

Nah, it's also got a lot of other rebalances which add stuff to sandbox as well - the hypergolic fuels (Aerozine50/NTO), renamed resources (Liquid Fuel becomes Kerosene, Oxidizer becomes LOX, etc), and some other stuff. You can find more info here.

As for replacing it with Real Fuels, idk how it would react. Whenever you remove mods from your game, there's always a risk it could mess something up. On top of that, I'm not sure how up-to-date RF is with BDB. Either way, I'd say it you could do that, but just make sure you have backups of all your saves first incase things go south...

[CobaltWolf]

So I didn't know I was doing this 24 hours ago, but here we are. Stay tuned, streaming again tomorrow.

[Jcking]

3 hours ago, Adam-Kerman said:

as it turns out, i do have Skyhawk Science system
 

and i play in Sandbox, so is it just a Tech Tree?
so i can delete it and replace it with Real Fuels or would mess things up?

It shouldn’t be a problem if you are using the deployable fairing. Using the jettisonable fairing on Saturn IB you will fall way short of orbital velocity, such that no mass savings will save the mission (you can see the vehicle almost stop accelerating towards the end of S-Ib burn).

Edited February 19, 2022 by Jcking

[pTrevTrevs]

5 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

So, I was thinking about that "utilization" and "focusing on stuff in line with KSP1's gameplay" discussion, and also thinking about ALSEP at the same time, and now I'm streaming?

 

Incredibly based.

[zakkpaz]

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

So I didn't know I was doing this 24 hours ago, but here we are. Stay tuned, streaming again tomorrow.

I'm really happy you're making these.  Will the Ultraviolet Camera be that nice copper color like it is IRL?

 

EDIT: nevermind you answered that in the stream.

Edited February 20, 2022 by zakkpaz

[pTrevTrevs]

Here's a craft file for my LRV in its Apollo 17 configuration, for those who have been asking.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14fbEdFvNQoLr0nhd4d3Ipb-W3F2tUYKW/view?usp=sharing

In addition to the BDB dev branch, the file uses parts from Kerbalism, Near-Future Construction, ReStock, Shuttle Orbiter Construction Kit, Making History, and Breaking Ground.

[CAPFlyer]

6 hours ago, Staticalliam7 said:

so i've been thinking about it lately and I think i'm gonna make a mod for nova concepts and such during summer break. 

So is astronautix.com a reliable source?

So, Astronautix is okay, but it needs to be cross-verified because they use sources that aren't the greatest themselves and I've found a fair amount of their data to be contradicted by primary sources (like NASA's NSSDCA).  I still use it a lot for general reference and guidance, but that's it.

[Invaderchaos]

Really getting there with Pegasus. Just starting to texture:

4 hours ago, Jcking said:

It shouldn’t be a problem if you are using the deployable fairing. Using the jettisonable fairing on Saturn IB you will fall way short of orbital velocity, such that no mass savings will save the mission (you can see the vehicle almost stop accelerating towards the end of S-Ib burn).

I used the jettisonable fairing while testing? As this is the actual version used in the mission. I am not sure if the drag issues were totally fixed, but I know Zorg made a couple tweaks. I'll test it again tomorrow

[CobaltWolf]

Got a bit more work done, the UV telescope is mostly finished! See you all on stream tomorrow!

[pTrevTrevs]

Already posted some of these in @ballisticfox0's Gas Giants Enhanced thread, but I forgot to put them here as well. Pioneer 10 at Jupiter:

[Galileo chiu]

3 hours ago, Invaderchaos said:

Really getting there with Pegasus. Just starting to texture:

I used the jettisonable fairing while testing? As this is the actual version used in the mission. I am not sure if the drag issues were totally fixed, but I know Zorg made a couple tweaks. I'll test it again tomorrow

what is that?

[Invaderchaos]

1 hour ago, Galileo chiu said:

what is that?

Pegasus Micrometeorite Satellite built out of an S-IV. Launched on Saturn I w/ Apollo Boilerplates.  Designed to study meteorite impacts, the big panels are mm detectors.

[rettter3]

6 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Got a bit more work done, the UV telescope is mostly finished! See you all on stream tomorrow!

I don't know why, but somehow it reminds me of R2-D2...

[Zorg]

On 2/17/2022 at 9:16 PM, CobaltWolf said:

I agree that we should focus on utilization, payloads, and stuff to do once you get somewhere. Start with your last question about KSP2 - well, like you said it's still in the future and we don't know what it will be like. But judging from what we DO know, things like surface bases, rovers, etc will be much more fleshed out in KSP2. Once we've ported the existing parts over, I'm definitely interested in expanding based on lunar/martian surface base proposals. That's a long way off however, and I'm holding off until we have more info about how those systems work, and how to create new 'parts' for them. Similarly, rovers in KSP 1 suuuuuuck to make parts for, so I'm holding off on those for now - but we have a bunch of different rover designs we can attempt in KSP2.

So, broadly speaking, I think our (my) content for the rest of KSP1 will follow these lines:

• Things that are suitable for KSP1 - landers, small surface habs, things like that. Nothing that needs new gameplay systems to work (as compared to full bases, which I'd want to try and implement via KSP2's colony system maybe?). So stuff that only adds relatively basic missions, like the I-class CSMs with the KH7 camera, those would be good for KSP1.
• Focus on having the groundwork laid for KSP2 - things like interplanetary transfer vehicles, orbital tugs, upgraded LMs that could serve as scouting/survey missions. I could see us taking elements from IPP but I'm not really interested in doing the entire thing. You might think of that stuff as like... IPP, but in an Apollo/Saturn centric timeline. My point is, we'd like to flesh out the parts you'd use to get to the point of developing early permanent lunar/martian bases. These are things that ARE doable in KSP1.
• Focus on CSM/LM follow-on stuff - I'd like to keep expanding and developing these part sets, rather than adding new families. So if something is CSM but with X, cool. Something like the Advanced Crew Vehicle from ETS, which shares little to nothing with the CSM and would essentially be another purpose built part family, is kind of a non-starter for me. I will say, I have very little CSM stuff left to make, based on the documents I have. It was relatively static, compared to the proposals for the Saturns and LM.
• Making sure that models/assets are up to snuff. Things like the current Atlas parts need a large pass and wouldn't be worth porting as-is. Getting those out of the way will be a big help.

As of right now, we don't have much info on what will be required for porting to KSP2. There's going to be a lot of stuff missing - certainly no B9PS at release - so we'll have to play things by ear. It probably won't be for like, a year after KSP2 comes out (at minimum) before BDB, as it exists now, is fully ported. At least I'll have a head start on being the definitive USA part mod

 

Responding to these more specifically:

1), 2), 3) LM Taxi, Shelter, Truck, and Lab are priorities for the next update. I definitely want to put them in.

4) See above, I'd like to hold off on making rovers until KSP2, since the implementation of wheels hopefully won't be... badS but without the bad if you know what I mean. I really hope you can have stupidly flexible suspension and proper traction like in the trailer.

5) I'm actually not sure what you mean?

6) Yes, we're looking into it. I know Zorg has plans, and the LM-Lab might also include a 'short' descent module that more just acts as an experiment mounting truss.

7) Some amount of LASS/ALSS will probably make it in, but again, I might hold off in hopes that I can make a much more interesting and fleshed out experience in KSP2.

8) So, I always was interested in doing those? But the problem you run into - and this goes for a lot of early proposal type stuff - they're just not that detailed. if you took the 1962 model and "finished" designing it, it wouldn't look the same. That's my hang up with that sort of work, doing the early conceptual stuff like that. The Alternate Apollo LM is great, but you can see what I mean - it's not nearly as detailed as our LM. I'm not knocking mcdouble, I'm saying he put in basically all the detail that was available on that OG LM.

9) We were discussing this in the dev chat the other day. It's a possibility; it got pretty far along and there's some good documentation.

 

 

Finishing off by listing out some stuff I know we're seriously looking into:

• As stated, the AAP LM variants.
• Zorg's looking to expand the nuclear engine stable, maybe including a BDB NERVA (finally!)
• "Orbital Launch" concepts - basically, docking a payload and 1-3 S-IVBs in orbit and then doing a departure burn. This would include aft-to-nose docking for S-IVBs.
• Some way of controlling or eliminating boiloff, probably at the cost of EC.
• Zorg has a number of Skylab-adjacent things to look into, like EOSS and I can't remember what else.
• Revamp of the cylindrical Big G service module.
• I was thinking about making something like the Orbiting Primate Spacecraft, but re-imagining it as maybe like, a long term Mystery Goo research facility? (I'm don't like actually depicting animals in KSP, it feels like it darkens the tone a bit too much. The Goo, with it's gregarious personality and possible... alive-ness, is usually used as a substitute, since it doesn't seem to mind)

Been away from the forums for a few days so missed some of the conversation.

For Skylab stuff all the unchecked boxes in the issue are planned for the next update after the coming one. Basically EOSS, A proper shorter LM ATM, the 25kw Power Tower. Maybe the SII tether for the EOSS version that uses the SII as a counterweight. Not sure about that last one.

https://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau/issues/1059

We definitely want to work on Nuclear tugs, we can base it off of existing saturn tankage for some of the assets but we'll need to make new adapters, mounts, docking ports etc. Lots of exciting stuff. And for nuclear engines I want to get started to Nerva I  & II soon. 

We've also got a bonus SIM bay item incoming, the SIM ATM

[Starhelperdude]

2 minutes ago, Zorg said:

We've also got a bonus SIM bay item incoming, the SIM ATM

yay! will the telescope have Skylab Telescope Mount-like experiments, or will it be for stuff like lunar surface observation?

[JoeSheridan]

9 hours ago, CAPFlyer said:

So, Astronautix is okay, but it needs to be cross-verified because they use sources that aren't the greatest themselves and I've found a fair amount of their data to be contradicted by primary sources (like NASA's NSSDCA).  I still use it a lot for general reference and guidance, but that's it.

Yeah, i can only say the same. Astronautix is like a lot of wikipedia-sites: A nice start if you are looking for real Sources or Keywords for the search in other databases, but NOT a good source itself. For example: I tried to use it to verify the real upper stage configurations for the Atlas III and and the engine subvariants of the R7/ Soyuz-Family... and that was just a nightmare / didn´t went well in comparison with other sources (Thanks Google for having a working russian translator)

(I looked for the thrust-ratios between them to make better use of the Tantares-Parts. For example, i came to this throttle-settings for the original Soyuz-Launcher: Core 85%, Booster 90% Blok-I RD-0110 100%, so my launchers still have all the same efficiency but they work as close as possible in comparison to their counterparts.)

Edit: If someone else is into flying at least some Soyuz-Launchers and the Protons with the "right" throttle settings, sent me a message and i can sent you what i have. Tantares is a nice mod, yeah and i use that launchers and the Soyuz-Spacecrafts a lot, but it just hasn´t had this large team behind it that BDB has now. I really really miss there something like the great variation of the RL-10´s we have here.

Edited February 20, 2022 by JoeSheridan

[Zorg]

2 minutes ago, Starhelperdude said:

yay! will the telescope have Skylab Telescope Mount-like experiments, or will it be for stuff like lunar surface observation?

The ATM was always a solar observatory. It will be a more limited set of experiments similar to Skylab ATM. For lunar mapping theres that proposal to put a KH7 in front of Apollo. 

Just now, JoeSheridan said:

Yeah, i can only say the same. Astronautix is like a lot of wikipedia-sites: A nice start if you are looking for real Sources or Keywords for the search in other databases, but NOT a good source itself. For example: I tried to use it to verify the real upper stage configurations for the Atlas III and and the engine subvariants of the R7/ Soyuz-Family... and that was just a nightmare / didn´t went well in comparison with other sources (Thanks Google for having a working russian translator)

(I looked for the thrust-ratios between them to make better use of the Tantares-Parts. For example, i came to this throttle-settings for the original Soyuz-Launcher: Core 85%, Booster 90% Blok-I RD-0110 100%, so my launchers still have all the same efficiency but they work as close as possible in comparison to their counterparts.)

Yup anything you come across on Astronautix MUST be verified elsewhere through primary sources or at least a more reliable one to be credible. The site isnt maintained anymore and even when it was it never cited its own sources.