[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[Pappystein]

So, more a question for those of us who are not constantly downloading the Dev builds,  IF someone downloads the DevBuild, should they automatically replace both SAF and B9PartSwitch every time they Download?

 

Normally when I download the DEV build I only replace the Bluedog_DB folder which I cleanly delete FIRST before copying the new folder in.  

 

I ask because I haven't downloaded in 5 days and I popped about 100 B9PS messages all pertaining to SAF today.

[CobaltWolf]

25 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

So, more a question for those of us who are not constantly downloading the Dev builds,  IF someone downloads the DevBuild, should they automatically replace both SAF and B9PartSwitch every time they Download?

 

Normally when I download the DEV build I only replace the Bluedog_DB folder which I cleanly delete FIRST before copying the new folder in.  

 

I ask because I haven't downloaded in 5 days and I popped about 100 B9PS messages all pertaining to SAF today.

Right now you should also be deleting + replacing SAF and B9PS

[lokee81]

What tech tree works with this? tried probes before manned and engineering tech tree. but it seems messed up

 

[Pappystein]

25 minutes ago, lokee81 said:

What tech tree works with this? tried probes before manned and engineering tech tree. but it seems messed up

 

Perfectly?  None except stock....

That being said there is a CTT patch that works but I am not certain if it is up to date for either 1.6x or 1.7x dev

 

[lokee81]

7 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Perfectly?  None except stock....

That being said there is a CTT patch that works but I am not certain if it is up to date for either 1.6x or 1.7x dev

 

thanks for your reply. do you know what the patch is called? 

 

[Pappystein]

4 minutes ago, lokee81 said:

thanks for your reply. do you know what the patch is called? 

 

It is built into BDB, and it is called CTT in the/bluedog_DB/Compatibility/CommunityTechTree folder chain...

Edited April 8, 2020 by Pappystein

[lokee81]

2 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

It is built into BDB, and it is called CTT in the/bluedog_DB/Compatibility/CommunityTechTree folder chain...

ok , great. Is that what is recommended when using this mod? 

[Friznit]

I use CTT all the time - works fine with BDB.

[lokee81]

Quote

It is built into BDB, and it is called CTT in the/bluedog_DB/Compatibility/CommunityTechTree folder chain...

 

do i need to do anything with this?  

 

Or is it enough just installing CTT ?

 

[Friznit]

Just install CTT

[lokee81]

2 minutes ago, Friznit said:

Just install CTT

ok, thanks

 

[Pappystein]

Ok, so another work week done... All 6 hours of it (on call for 40 so it counts, right?)  Anway thought I would continue flying Saturns and such for you all.

 

Today I bring you a proper Saturn II INT-19.  A note, I have never flown the INT-19 before in game as, well there is no suitable M-55 / TU-122 Solid Rocket analog.  The Algol is too short, and not enough thrust and most importantly doesn't have 4x vectoring nozzles like the Minuteman's First stage.   BUT it is the closest we have in BDB currently ( I am about to embark on testing a MM patch to Lengthen and upthrust the Algol to be closer to Minuteman first stage standards.   But anyway here is what I am flying today.   The Basic Saturn II INT-19 shown last week, with my "Apollo Test Payload"   The ATP is just a Blk II Lunar Apollo setup with 3/4ts fuel.   IRL it would have been half fuel but I need to make up some missing d/v from the lackluster (for their roles in this flight) Algols.

Spoiler

On the stand, the Saturn II looks pretty nice.   Please keep in mind the INT-19 flew with 5x J-2 sea-level optimized engines.  They give up a tiny bit of performance for much better thrust at low altitudes.   They ignite at launch.

Very Slow liftoff as we are JUST over 1.2:1 Thrust to weight ratio.  Inertia is HARD to overcome with these lightweight SRBs

Now we are gaining some speed!

First 8 (of 12) Algols are ditched right as they run out of fuel

Nearing the burnout of the last 4 Algols....   I won't make space with this payload on just the S-II stage.   I run out of Hydrolox in the stage at 75km.

HOW DID THAT HAPPEN!   I just manually staged the S-IVB and the seperation of the LES... Yet the LES decided I hit the backspace key (I have never had this happen before!)   Oh well re-launch and manual jettison the thing.

 

LAUNCH 2!

As you can see, I manually jettisoned the LES right before last SRM separation.  

You can see the 5 tiny J-2 SeaLevel engines tucked up under the FIXED Saturn II Inter-stage.   (The Inter-stage was left because it dramatically reduced drag per slide-rule calculations.)

Goal was a 250x250km Orbit.   That is what I am testing this payload to on all the Saturn I alternatives.   Like the last two launches I had to settle for a lower orbit.  A Docking autopilot error (it tried to dock with the wrong side of the dockingport! caused this one to be a little lower at 174x172km

I have used just under half the SM fuel that was in the tank (it was at 3/4ths full.

See the Apollo/Skylab Telescope in the background?   I had released it 10 minutes earlier!   I almost mid-aired!

 

So there is my Launch of the less than stellar Saturn II INT-19.   The M-55 SRM choices were driven by the fact they were in production for the USAF and were easily available.   Everyone pretty much knew this option would end up being a pig.   But Still to keep costs down and not develop something new, it was an alternative that looked good on paper $$$ wise.

That being said, the INT-18 is where it is at on Saturn II due to the well used United Aircraft Chemical Systems Division's UA-1205, -1206 and -1207

 

[Zorg]

Couple of things uploaded to github just now.

Starting off with the Atlas V 500 series fairing.

I dont know if anyone actually cares what the inside of these things look like but It was fun making the acoustic dampening blocks in geometry.

 

 

 

This has been set up like the real thing. The nose is quite long and you then have either a short or a long (or no) middle section for a total of 3 different lengths. To get the historical lengths, simply choose
a) 0 segments,
b) the short subtype with 1 segment
c) the long subtype with 1 segment.

Of course you can lengthen these beyond the historical proportions by adding more segments.

Spoiler

 

 

In addiition to this I have completely remade the Titan 3E fairing from scratch. It was the first part I made and although i was quite proud of it wasnt quite up to scratch and I didnt really know what I was doing  Unlike the other early fairings like the CT3 which were easy to clean up, the 3E needed a bit of work. This is an all new texture and the model is new too which fixes some minor issues. Theres some greebling using real geometry too this time instead of everything shoved into the normal map. The colours also match the BDB palette now.

Another small addition is the asymmetrical cap which was missing on the original (the SAF feature wasnt there at that time)

 

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Zorg

[biohazard15]

Pretty sure this is not intended:

[Morphisor]

10 hours ago, biohazard15 said:

Pretty sure this is not intended:

Actually my thinking was that it's a mission for which a sun orbit makes perfect sense, so it's pretty intentional. The only question really is, is the required orbit reasonable? I suppose the heavy inclination may be a bit much on a solar orbit... which means I'd have to disallow it triggering for the sun after all.

[Teslamax]

I have a contract "Perform Solar Telescope Mount Observations while docked with Station Beta".  I assume this refers to the Kane-OCO Telescope Mount on the station.

This station is in LKO under JNSQ.

There are three science activities available for this part:

EXPERIMENT	RESULT
"Log Observation Data"
"Start Object Tracking"
"Take Solar Photography"

 

I tried Googling for this issue but couldn't find anything.

A search of the forum for this message was also fruitless.

• KSP 1.8.1
• BDB 1.6.2_hotfix_2 (CKAN)
• DMModuleScienceAnimateGeneric v0.22

Game log here.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Teslamax
added logfile link & table with result images

[CobaltWolf]

Some small Gemini progress... It's becoming clear this won't be in game this weekend like I'd hoped, I just haven't been able to work on it this week. But, I'll hopefully be able to get the initial part set a bit more polished.

Off the top of my head, stuff I need to do to get this in game:

• Endcaps for the capsule
• endcaps/interior for reentry RCS
• Drogue chute UVs and textures
• Heatshield UVs and textures
• Retro SRB UVs and textures
• Textures for early-style Adapter section (see below)
• Finish endcaps for Equipment section
• Retro module interior
• Probably going to redo the greebling on the late-model Equipment section

 

Anyways, some small pics:

Start of texturing the early-model Adapter section. This will be a B9 switch for the Retro and Equipment modules.

 

Some exploratory work on using Depth Masks for the experiments.

[Pappystein]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Some exploratory work on using Depth Masks for the experiments.

While it is too bad you were unable to work on Gemini as much as you thought you would this week,   Two things;

1. I am GLAD that you got the pinstriping done.  I know you were not looking forward to that alternate texture.   I am also glad you chose to dull it down,  With the limited color pallet in KSP true black would have too high of a contrast and rather jarring
2. I think the depth mask experiment looks pretty good.   So this means you can drop parts in without having to use the offset tool to get them "under the skin" so to speak?   

Ok History time (and something I only learned in one of the last two BDB streams)  The "Stripes" on the Service modules are actually Auto-body pinstripes!  They are not painted on nor are they part of the skin.   Cobalt has pictures of the SM under construction with this tape and you can see it is not always applied perfectly (bends) and my favorite is where there is a piece of tape hanging off the SM...   So basically NASA, and their contractor (McDonald?) gave the dull white Service Module a visual style upgrade.   I have seen nothing in any of the myriad of Gemini documents I have to indicate WHY but I am guessing it is for some Ground to Space or Space to Space Observations as it was only flown on the first few flights in this condition.

For those that do not know what Auto-body Pinstripe tape is check the link below.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FL7CEZ0/ref=sspa_dk_detail_6?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B01FL7CEZ0&pd_rd_w=0Rdhp&pf_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158c5&pd_rd_wg=dEDGb&pf_rd_r=V51AQA4MT69MZYXPKKCS&pd_rd_r=d9372080-6b19-4629-9ffc-22921f24e87e&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExTDZKWjNLN1NaUUZCJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTM5MTAzMVZaQlhXRVNBSVNWWCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTQzMzc1TkZNQjZXQTA4U0VOJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

I grew up in an auto body shop and by the age of 4 I was "helping" with the wet sanding (a miserable job, and I never got real good at it.)  I never learned many of the skills but some of them still stick with me today.     Sadly Pin-striping, Painting and Using bondo to fix everything are not in my skill wheelhouse (although the last is probably good given the amount of bondo caused wood rot I have had to excise from my house over the last few years!)  

Edited April 10, 2020 by Pappystein

[MashAndBangers]

6 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Auto-body pinstripes!

Correction:  Space Tape!

[CobaltWolf]

15 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

I think the depth mask experiment looks pretty good.   So this means you can drop parts in without having to use the offset tool to get them "under the skin" so to speak?   

I used it to some limited effect in the last update, for the ultra low-profile radial attached MOL parts, so that if necessary the detail of the endcap could cut into the part underneath. We borrowed it from the Restock plugin. Its essentially the same trick used for the IVA cutaways, but instead its used so you can have hollow parts visible underneath the skin of the part they're attached to.

[Pappystein]

10 minutes ago, MashAndBangers said:

Correction:  Space Tape!

Sure,  And then it became the more commonly known Auto-Body pinstripe tape!

Historian mode ON:

Back in the late 1950s and early 1960s most cars did not have pin-stripes.   Rather they had big honkin pieces of chrome plated accent pieces.   A 57 Chevy could have as many as 500+ pieces of chrome plate on it!   Then several custom shops started making high quality custom cars that had a clean, mostly chrome free look with a pinstripe on them instead of chrome.  This reduced the "bright shin" of the chrome and replaced it with a more subtle, less gaudy look.   It was hand painted pin stripes (usually 2 of different thickness) running down the length of the car.  These were painted with no template, no tape and no straight edge.   If you have seen the Nicholas Cage remake of "Gone in 60 Seconds"  There is a Scene where Robert Duvall is hand painting a stripe.   Surprisingly he seems to have done it OK (or was it Hollywood Magic? )   But in the mid 1960s Auto-Body pin-striping tape started to come out.....    Gemini may have been it's first use (but I have no proof of that)

 

 

[Pappystein]

15 hours ago, Teslamax said:

I have a contract "Perform Solar Telescope Mount Observations while docked with Station Beta".  I assume this refers to the Kane-OCO Telescope Mount on the station.

 

First off thanks for reaching out about your concern!  

I know you have been playing KSP for a lot of time but the link below is still your best first step to get a solution.  

 

 

Other than that, I have a suggestion for you, one that some people won't agree with:  QUIT using CKAN... Or alternatively if you feel compelled to use CKAN; EVERY TIME you have a new mod update.  DELETE your KSP folder and start with a fresh install!

My opinion and why:

Spoiler

First off not all mods support CKAN.

If you do a clean install in KSP every-time you update ANY SINGLE mod,  CKAN is completely, 99% perfectly* reliable.   Sadly that can take a LOT OF TIME to do!  As soon as you start updating individual mods and NOT doing a complete wipe and fresh install of KSP, CKAN can (not will) leave "artifacts" of old game files... and sometimes fully operable OLD game files when you "delete" a mod from your playlist.   This alone can cause HUGE issues... And is the reason I no longer use CKAN.   In Short, CKAN add a whole mess of variables that make it MUCH HARDER to troubleshoot where a problem is actually coming from.

I did a test over 6 months on two different computers using the EXACT SAME mods and updating within minutes of each other.   With CKAN, my GameData folder grew to 5.3Gb of data while Manual install I was at 4.7Gb of data!   Now that was over 150 mod updates, un-installs and re-installs in a 6 month period.   Extra data means extra data that can cause problems with other mods.  In looking in my "big" GameData folder, I found multiple copies of some mods or files, I found Obsolete files (that were depreciated removed out of mods) and I found multiple copies of the ModuleManager.dll   So to avoid problems don't use CKAN is my opinion.   It is adding a layer of complexity with problems of it's own, onto an already complex process to "make it easier," to the end user.

*Baring issues with the CKAN submission itself!

 

[Friznit]

44 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

First off thanks for reaching out about your concern!  

I know you have been playing KSP for a lot of time but the link below is still your best first step to get a solution.  

 

 

Other than that, I have a suggestion for you, one that some people won't agree with:  QUIT using CKAN... Or alternatively if you feel compelled to use CKAN; EVERY TIME you have a new mod update.  DELETE your KSP folder and start with a fresh install!

My opinion and why:

  Hide contents

First off not all mods support CKAN.

If you do a clean install in KSP every-time you update ANY SINGLE mod,  CKAN is completely, 99% perfectly* reliable.   Sadly that can take a LOT OF TIME to do!  As soon as you start updating individual mods and NOT doing a complete wipe and fresh install of KSP, CKAN can (not will) leave "artifacts" of old game files... and sometimes fully operable OLD game files when you "delete" a mod from your playlist.   This alone can cause HUGE issues... And is the reason I no longer use CKAN.   In Short, CKAN add a whole mess of variables that make it MUCH HARDER to troubleshoot where a problem is actually coming from.

I did a test over 6 months on two different computers using the EXACT SAME mods and updating within minutes of each other.   With CKAN, my GameData folder grew to 5.3Gb of data while Manual install I was at 4.7Gb of data!   Now that was over 150 mod updates, un-installs and re-installs in a 6 month period.   Extra data means extra data that can cause problems with other mods.  In looking in my "big" GameData folder, I found multiple copies of some mods or files, I found Obsolete files (that were depreciated removed out of mods) and I found multiple copies of the ModuleManager.dll   So to avoid problems don't use CKAN is my opinion.   It is adding a layer of complexity with problems of it's own, onto an already complex process to "make it easier," to the end user.

*Baring issues with the CKAN submission itself!

 

This is not a CKAN thread but I do feel the need to offer a counterpoint - I've used it extensively for BDB and other mods and never had a problem.  It cleans up just find after itself.  YMMV etc.

Speaking of Depth Masks, one thing I would love to see is a recessed antenna dish.  I'm sure they must be a thing.

[mcdouble]

3 hours ago, Pappystein said:

So basically NASA, and their contractor (McDonald?) gave the dull white Service Module a visual style upgrade.   I have seen nothing in any of the myriad of Gemini documents I have to indicate WHY but I am guessing it is for some Ground to Space or Space to Space Observations as it was only flown on the first few flights in this condition.

It would almost certainly have been for thermal control. Since the radiators ran coolant under the sections where the stripes are, they probably found that a flat white surface was radiating a little too well, so they just added a little bit of black surface to balance things out.

[Zorg]

No surprises, its the Atlas V 400 series 2.5m faring.

Power sliding!

 

There are a couple of B9 switches available that let you choose between the 3 real life fairing sizes (from left to right LPF, EPF and XEPF). This is not through the SAF segmentation, its just lengthening the nose cone actually. Decided to do this since the extensions aren't that long and have clear seams but I wanted to have all three variants.

However whichever one you choose, you can still adjust it with a non historical SAF wall segment (far right) which will be seamless too. This example is an EPF with 1 extra segment.

I'll also add both this and the CT3 fairing to the standard 2.5m generic base at some point.

 

Spoiler