Depreciated SVE -Do Not Enter-

[kerbalresearch]

4 hours ago, karamazovnew said:

I can never get my game to look like in the pictures. I have no bugs, everything seems to work fine with scatterer (and without), but the Kerbin always has a sort of "stock edge glow", and the clouds look very strange near the night-day terminator line because of that. While the clouds get darker, the sky remains bright.

I get the exact same issue, its a deal breaker for me since the mod's whole purpose is to look good. I think it is partly scatterer that is the cause of it, but also just the ambient light, try turning down the ambient light sliders with planetshine if you have it installed.

After tweaking scatterer and planetshine settings, ive gotten it to almost go away, but you basically have to really turn down scatterer's settings, which reduces how good it looks overall, but in my opinion its worth the trouble.

EDIT: also, the view from the tracking station has higher ambient light for whatever reason, which makes it looks worse, so make sure you are in "flight" with a vessel before you actually judge the appearance.

Edited May 12, 2016 by kerbalresearch

[Shadriss]

Not really sure what you two are thinking is wrong - that ring of blue near the terminator is fairly accurate... it's still catching light from the sun through atmosphere. Once you are fully across the terminator, it's gone as it should be. Also keep in mind that some of the screenshots posted here are not just SVE/Scatterer installs. My own uses elements of KSPRC, Texture Replacer, and a few other small visuals as well. Don't assume that just because they were posted here that those two mods were all that were used.

As to the change since your last HR install... as far as I know, the scatterer changes have been minimal. You may want to check your settings for it, as I do know he enabled Dx11 shaders in the most recent build... that could have some affect on what you've been seeing.

[karamazovnew]

@Shadriss Actually, you can see the terminator clearly in the second picture, it's the redish line. You'd expect clouds to be "grey" there (would rather have red), but they're black long before that. I've tried Renaissance's clouds as well and they didn't have this problem. No idea why. As for Scatterer, while I do expect to see some light near the terminator, it's waaay to bright  Wouldn't matter if it did it on top of the clouds, but as you can see, it doesn't. Maybe it's in the settings, I didn't check the default settings. Mashing Renaissance's old Scatterer  settings in, the game looks quite nicely (almost perfectly at that altitude). 

Anyway, I did uninstall Scatterer for now (big fps hit for me) and tweaked the clouds a bit for my taste. Looks fine now at almost any altitude, except at in high orbit where the stock "rim" shader kicks in. 

[Shadriss]

*shrug* As I said - it looks right to me, but then I'm not always looking for photo-realism either. Looked right to me, and that's all that matters (for me, anyhow, eh?) If it's not working to your taste, then do what'cha gotta do guy. Them there's the beauty of mods.

And yes, I know I can see the orange portion of the terminator. My point is that the atmosphere extends significantly higher than the ground, where that orange light it reflecting. About 70 KM, as it turns out . Because of the height difference, the atmosphere catches and refracts sunlight long after darkness has effectively fallen at ground level, hence the glow you see. Too bright? Maybe, but that's more a matter of taste in this case, I think. You can see this pretty much every evening as night falls - the ground gets almost pitch black long before the atmosphere goes black.

 

EDIT: So I'm going to take back at least some of what I've written in the last little bit. I've been paying a bit more attention to what's in-game, and you, sir, are perfectly correct - that glow shouldn't be there. I'm not sure why it is, given that I've done zero to the stock settings of SVE or Scatterer (with the exception of turning off the god-ray WIP portion of Scatterer). I apologize for the lack of screenies, as I'm writing this on a separate computer from where my flight is currently running.

My only suggestion would be to try once more, this time ensuring that all previous traces of both mods are totally and completely eliminated prior to their install. I would also caution you to NOT use the SVE install through CKAN (I don't recall that you said you did, but I'll throw that in there anyway, because it's a common mistake). I wish I had better suggestions for this... especially after shooting my mouth off without verifying my own information.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Shadriss
Oops.

[UnanimousCoward]

Another reason not to install this mod through CKAN - it appears to install the lowest-res version.

The UR version runs great for me on 64-bit Windows, as well.

[Sheppard]

On 11.05.2016 at 4:13 AM, Shadriss said:

 

This has been a recurring issue for some time guys - since it only happens this way in the menu, it's not a high priority.

Seems to be fixed now, clouds all around:

 

Edited May 13, 2016 by Sheppard

[Blacks]

Cloud in Game Menu is very old problem what Eve it have & it happen random, sometime you can have full functional cloud, sometime you will see nothing or sometime bottom left it will have a glitch, but is a minor one coz all we want to jump in game & play so rbray know about but it try to focus on fix other major issue inside the game or bring new feature for make immersion better for all

[quarrion]

Well I have this issue which I have seen somewhere in this topic - in my system kerbals seem to have colonized minmus

http://imgur.com/4wLwyzk

log:

https://gist.github.com/anonymous/f6a6197c76f5898a40205f10b4f21456

 

On kerbin some cloud layers are also very dark, even during the day, not only during sunrises and sunsets

http://imgur.com/Coq1aPM

http://imgur.com/GW58WXb

Don't know whether it is a bug or a feature

Edited May 13, 2016 by quarrion
log file didnt upload correctly

[Shadriss]

5 minutes ago, quarrion said:

Well I have this issue which I have seen somewhere in this topic - in my system kerbals seem to have colonized minmus

http://imgur.com/4wLwyzk

log:

https://gist.github.com/anonymous/f6a6197c76f5898a40205f10b4f21456

 

On kerbin some cloud layers are also very dark, even during the day, not only during sunrises and sunsets

http://imgur.com/Coq1aPM

http://imgur.com/GW58WXb

Don't know whether it is a bug or a feature

For the first, I've never seen it in any of my games, so really have no advice other that what I posted earlier - remove all files relating to both SVE/EVE and Scatterer (though really, just the SVE and EVE folders and BoulderCo if it's somehow there should suffice) and reinstall SVE from the github repository (NOT CKAN!).

For the second, that's actually a feature. Exactly what I've seen (for real this time! Honest!) in my games, and doesn't look off to me... the darkness is intentional, as if they were all pure white, you'd barely even see them. Plus, realistically speaking, most clouds have shades of grey to dark grey anyhow, so while, granted, a lot of clouds are very white, these are hardly outside the realm of normalcy.

1 hour ago, Sheppard said:

Seems to be fixed now, clouds all around

As Black said, it's a random thing. Last night, I had no clouds at all. This morning, had half coverage (the poor southern hemisphere...). Still looked correct in game, and that's where it really matters, truth be told.

[Poodmund]

I too did notice that Kerbin's Main Cloud layer was very dark on the previous version (0.6.4) using the colour range of 75,75,75,255. I bumped it up to 115,115,115,255 for the latest release; however, I didn't want to overdo it as I was really just porting SVE to the latest EVE syntax so didn't want to change anything that Nhawks17 had intended.

It is worth some discussion though. @Nhawks17, could you enlighten some conversation here as to why the Kerbin Main Cloud layer is to appear quite a dark grey? This results in quite a good level of brightness from orbit when the Scatterer effects are applied by down at PQS/Surface level altitudes the 'darkness' comes quite apparent looking akin to this 3rd image that @quarrion posted above.

[Blacks]

23 minutes ago, quarrion said:

On kerbin some cloud layers are also very dark, even during the day, not only during sunrises and sunsets

http://imgur.com/Coq1aPM

http://imgur.com/GW58WXb

Don't know whether it is a bug or a feature

is spechless shhh, @quarrion just look at your picture & enjoy it

second one if you refer to far away cloud what they are more gray''sh & not have volume is because fade glitch & fact cloud was not fully design base on new Rbray system but it is a good update coz it make SVE be compatible with other visual pack using same sintax, same dev version

about minmus if you refer to CityLight it Eve it have same small issue what rbray it will fix soon as he can

daaang it looking at that picture i make me curse my video card

Cheers

Edited May 13, 2016 by Blacks

[quarrion]

18 minutes ago, Shadriss said:

For the first, I've never seen it in any of my games, so really have no advice other that what I posted earlier - remove all files relating to both SVE/EVE and Scatterer (though really, just the SVE and EVE folders and BoulderCo if it's somehow there should suffice) and reinstall SVE from the github repository (NOT CKAN!).

I made fresh install from Github repo, removing manually previous EVE and SVE version. Actually Minmus looks really cool this way, just wanted to let know

18 minutes ago, Shadriss said:

For the second, that's actually a feature. Exactly what I've seen (for real this time! Honest!) in my games, and doesn't look off to me... the darkness is intentional, as if they were all pure white, you'd barely even see them. Plus, realistically speaking, most clouds have shades of grey to dark grey anyhow, so while, granted, a lot of clouds are very white, these are hardly outside the realm of normalcy.

I mean it would look better if it weren't most persistent in cirrrus cloud layers - cirruses are white and get highlited in orangish - red colors during sunrises sunsets. And yes I know it is not possible for now Bot for cumuluses layers it is perfect. Just perfect

 

@Poodmund Main cloud layer is OK, I think the top one is to be tweaked. BTW Awesome update You, @Nhawks17 (and @pingopete) you guys really make the difference to this game.

11 minutes ago, Blacks said:

daaang it looking at that picture i make me curse my video card

I know that feel - i've been playing on potato until I got my scholarship. I am still poor but at least happy person now

Edited May 13, 2016 by quarrion

[Nhawks17]

14 minutes ago, Poodmund said:

I too did notice that Kerbin's Main Cloud layer was very dark on the previous version (0.6.4) using the colour range of 75,75,75,255. I bumped it up to 115,115,115,255 for the latest release; however, I didn't want to overdo it as I was really just porting SVE to the latest EVE syntax so didn't want to change anything that Nhawks17 had intended.

It is worth some discussion though. @Nhawks17, could you enlighten some conversation here as to why the Kerbin Main Cloud layer is to appear quite a dark grey? This results in quite a good level of brightness from orbit when the Scatterer effects are applied by down at PQS/Surface level altitudes the 'darkness' comes quite apparent looking akin to this 3rd image that @quarrion posted above.

This was done because of how different the lighting is in 1.1. The settings used in 1.0.5 were showing up waaaay to bright in 1.1 so I had to lower the settings so it didn't blind people. 

[karamazovnew]

23 minutes ago, quarrion said:

On kerbin some cloud layers are also very dark, even during the day, not only during sunrises and sunsets

http://imgur.com/Coq1aPM

http://imgur.com/GW58WXb

Don't know whether it is a bug or a feature

This is connected to my issue. I've wasted a lot of hours trying to figure it out and it seems both SVE and Scatterer are to blame:

- for SVE: the clouds are quite dark all the time. You can make them brighter with the Alt-0 menu. The volumetric cloud is not fps friendly and way too bright for my taste so I've disabled it completely. You can make it more transparent tho...

- as for Scatterer: I might be wrong, but PostProcessing in Scatterer is not applied to clouds. The mod uses that tool in order to extend the light inverse-exponentially towards the night-day terminator lines. That's realistic (real sky is bright 1 our before sunset), but since it's not applied to the clouds as well, you end up with dark clouds on top of white skies. I can't really blame EVE, because I wouldn't want clouds to be bright near sunset, I'd rather they stay as they are. So we need to wait for Scatterer to fix the issue somehow. A temporary fix would be to edit Scatterer and copy the exposure and Post Processing settings from the 150km layer the 50km and 100km layers. You end up with something similar to how the Map screen looks. You can then "force" the mod by abusing the depth setting. I'm working on it now, so far looks good (but I'm using Reshade as well). 

Thing is, your pics gave me an idea. Although cirrus clouds look bright from above and below, I'll try to duplicate the main clouds and make them dark below, to give the impression of volume and shadow. If I get anything interesting, I'll post some pics.

[Bleddyn]

9 hours ago, Shadriss said:

reinstall SVE from the github repository (NOT CKAN!).

Good advice! I just tried this mod for the first time last night, installed with CKAN. It looked fantastic but I was getting no city lights on the night side of Kerbin. A manual install of the latest version from Github sorted it out.

Thanks!

[Shadriss]

1 hour ago, Bleddyn said:

Good advice!

It's not just advice - it's the provided instructions!

[Poodmund]

@Nhawks17

https://github.com/rbray89/EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements/releases/tag/EVE-1.1-2-1

Bug fix for random city lights, enhanced cloud shading.

[Matt77]

5 hours ago, Shadriss said:

It's not just advice - it's the provided instructions!

Saying "download from Spacedock or Github" is no use to people who just tick a box in CKAN and expect it to work - why would people who use a mod manager read installation instructions?  The OP actually says "Need help installing this? Then read the readme in the download or click a link for the wiki" (no advice not to use a mod manager).  Perhaps a warning in the OP saying "Don't use CKAN" would help.

I first installed it using CKAN, it looked crap and I only noticed by chance that if you install it manually, you can choose higher resolutions.

This is an issue because CKAN automatically lists mods on Spacedock.  If @Nhawks17doesn't want it on CKAN he might be thinking "how is this my problem?" - my answer would be, it installs the mod successfully but seems to use the minimum resolution, which looks almost as poor as stock - this doesn't present the mod in the best light an undoubtedly turns people off it - I was actually looking for another eyecandy mod when I noticed something about getting this from Github.

[Nhawks17]

3 hours ago, Poodmund said:

@Nhawks17

https://github.com/rbray89/EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements/releases/tag/EVE-1.1-2-1

Bug fix for random city lights, enhanced cloud shading.

Sweet I'll get an update out when I get home on Monday

1 hour ago, Matt77 said:

Saying "download from Spacedock or Github" is no use to people who just tick a box in CKAN and expect it to work - why would people who use a mod manager read installation instructions?  The OP actually says "Need help installing this? Then read the readme in the download or click a link for the wiki" (no advice not to use a mod manager).  Perhaps a warning in the OP saying "Don't use CKAN" would help.

I first installed it using CKAN, it looked crap and I only noticed by chance that if you install it manually, you can choose higher resolutions.

This is an issue because CKAN automatically lists mods on Spacedock.  If @Nhawks17doesn't want it on CKAN he might be thinking "how is this my problem?" - my answer would be, it installs the mod successfully but seems to use the minimum resolution, which looks almost as poor as stock - this doesn't present the mod in the best light an undoubtedly turns people off it - I was actually looking for another eyecandy mod when I noticed something about getting this from Github.

Hi, I didn't mark Spacedock to automatically list the mod on CKAN, I do not like CKAN in the slightest. The current netkan is not maintained by me it's maintained by people who listed the mod themselves without me asking. I'm fine with it being listed if someone wanted it there but I will not provide support for people who download it through an unofficial source.

[Shadriss]

5 hours ago, Matt77 said:

Saying "download from Spacedock or Github" is no use to people who just tick a box in CKAN and expect it to work - why would people who use a mod manager read installation instructions?  The OP actually says "Need help installing this? Then read the readme in the download or click a link for the wiki" (no advice not to use a mod manager).  Perhaps a warning in the OP saying "Don't use CKAN" would help.

I first installed it using CKAN, it looked crap and I only noticed by chance that if you install it manually, you can choose higher resolutions.

This is an issue because CKAN automatically lists mods on Spacedock.  If @Nhawks17doesn't want it on CKAN he might be thinking "how is this my problem?" - my answer would be, it installs the mod successfully but seems to use the minimum resolution, which looks almost as poor as stock - this doesn't present the mod in the best light an undoubtedly turns people off it - I was actually looking for another eyecandy mod when I noticed something about getting this from Github.

 

4 hours ago, Nhawks17 said:

Hi, I didn't mark Spacedock to automatically list the mod on CKAN, I do not like CKAN in the slightest. The current netkan is not maintained by me it's maintained by people who listed the mod themselves without me asking. I'm fine with it being listed if someone wanted it there but I will not provide support for people who download it through an unofficial source.

@Matt77: As a general piece of advice to everyone, the OP isn't the only place to find updated instructions. Courtesy dictates you also check the last 5 to 10 pages of the thread itself, where (in this case) the CKAN issue has been brought up numerous times. I'm a CKAN user in general myself, but  for this mod it's not really an option. Yes, it would be slightly more obvious if Nhawks did exactly what you recommend - I've recommended it myself on more than a few occasions - but a simple reading of the thread shows that many of the problems folks have had with the mod stem from a CKAN installation that Nhawks does not (and never has) supported. It's a few more extra steps for us, but it's not all that hard to do, and checking the thread for updated releases takes a mere couple minutes. I know we live in a world of push-button-instant-YAY, but I don't think that's all that much to ask. I do kinda wish that whoever it is maintaining the .netkan file for this would get rid of it, though, as it's very obviously causing confusion, consternation, discombobulation, and general discontentment... in addition to being against the author's will as well.

In better (and less rant-y) news - BLUE TEXT INCOMING! Prepare yourselves! The Blue Text shall soon dwell among us!

[Matt77]

16 hours ago, Shadriss said:

 

@Matt77: As a general piece of advice to everyone, the OP isn't the only place to find updated instructions. Courtesy dictates you also check the last 5 to 10 pages of the thread itself, where (in this case) the CKAN issue has been brought up numerous times. I'm a CKAN user in general myself, but  for this mod it's not really an option. Yes, it would be slightly more obvious if Nhawks did exactly what you recommend - I've recommended it myself on more than a few occasions - but a simple reading of the thread shows that many of the problems folks have had with the mod stem from a CKAN installation that Nhawks does not (and never has) supported. It's a few more extra steps for us, but it's not all that hard to do, and checking the thread for updated releases takes a mere couple minutes. I know we live in a world of push-button-instant-YAY, but I don't think that's all that much to ask. I do kinda wish that whoever it is maintaining the .netkan file for this would get rid of it, though, as it's very obviously causing confusion, consternation, discombobulation, and general discontentment... in addition to being against the author's will as well.

I didn't know it was on CKAN against the authors will, but the same point stands (and I think we agree going by the emboldened part above).  The condescending tone of your post isn't really necessary.

I am aware of the etiquette regarding mods and support - I didn't ask for any support.

20 hours ago, Nhawks17 said:

I will not provide support for people who download it through an unofficial source

No problem, but please note that CKAN users don't know they are using an unoffical source!  That person should remove it from CKAN, I think.  Thanks for the great mod, it's worth checking manually.

[Shadriss]

5 hours ago, Matt77 said:

The condescending tone of your post isn't really necessary.

Nor was it intentional. Since you've done as I mentioned, though, you know I've been fielding a lot of questions like this for NHawks, and you can only give the same advice so many times before you begin to wonder. It's no reflection on you - if you missed those posts you missed them, no biggie. The post, though directed to you initially, was really more of an open letter to everyone in general. Apologies if it came off as other than intended.

[Third_OfFive]

Just wanted to point out that there seem to be some pretty bad looking seams in the cloud layer..

[tree_tchoper21]

i am having issues with the mod working. i have read the install instructions and i am 75.9% sure i have installed it correctly but when i load the game i don't see any changes to the game related to this mod like the addition of clouds. if i could have some help, that would be great.

[Calvin_Maclure]

11 minutes ago, tree_tchoper21 said:

i am having issues with the mod working. i have read the install instructions and i am 75.9% sure i have installed it correctly but when i load the game i don't see any changes to the game related to this mod like the addition of clouds. if i could have some help, that would be great.

Do you have a ship already in orbit? If so, go to it. If the mod is running right, that's where you'll really see the difference. 

CM