Kerbfleet: A Jool Odyssey-CHAPTER 22 pg 2: Yet >another< narrative device!

[superstrijder15]

8 minutes ago, Kuzzter said:

It flies reasonably straight

Do you use the thrust balancing mod? It really helps with unbalanced ships

[Mister Dilsby]

8 minutes ago, superstrijder15 said:

Do you use the thrust balancing mod? It really helps with unbalanced ships

Nope. Just me, the pilot, and a slider  

[superstrijder15]

In future it might be useful to look into it if you are going to make more unbalanced ships

[Alchemist]

3 hours ago, Zhetaan said:

I was looking more at the second page, actually, where Gene admits that no one knew what they would do if StrutCo wouldn't let Kerbfleet talk some sense into them.  That indicated to me that they really didn't understand the concept of intentional violence

It may be difficult to distinguish between not understanding the very concept of using violence (or threats to use it) to achieve something (in case there is the capability to really overwhelm others) and not understanding what reasonable results can ever be achieved by escalating armed conflict in such conditions, when everybody is potentially capable of dealing heavy damage to others (or having difficulties to estimate how much will be left after such conflict... and where is the point of doing something like that)

 

And apart from the quick-victory empire-building scenarios (involving rather obvious strategic supremacy), has a lasting military conflict ever done anything better in global scale than burning up the willingness for aggression (something Kerbals seem to lack in the first place) and the resources that could be spared for this (a technocratic society definitely can find a better use for those), finally forcing the conflicting sides to get back to negotiations? (yes, with the arguments multiplied by the results of military performance, if there even was a kind of victory to speak of - but isn't it better to do it civilized way before wasting more than you can win?)
Most of the Kerbulan-style arguments about necessity of military expenditures just oscillate between "if we don't spend these resources on it, somebody else will still spend this much and abuse the advantage" and "since we already have spent this much on this, why not to use it?". Often with both things said at once.

Yet the true advancement of civilizations comes with the things that are not sacrificed in the name of military advancement - and mutual respect for those things

[Torgo]

38 minutes ago, Kuzzter said:

The only cheat active when Enterprise is flying is infinite fuel

And now, the rest of us only get the remaining few drops of now finite fuel!

[something]

エンタープライズ? Interesting, google translates it correctly as Enterprise. I probably would have gone with エンテーぺライゼ most far east asian people tend to append an 'e' to the end of my name (it is ending with a consonant), despite trying really hard not to pronounce that 'e' there But then again, I am no expert in far east Asian languages and my skills basically are barely sufficient to distinguish Chinese from Korean from Japanese...

[max_creative]

Wait, what happened? Did it get to space? Because then it's a space boat! 

Up goer: 

Spoiler

Space boat!: 

Spoiler

Space boat?: 

Spoiler

23 hours ago, Kuzzter said:

 

 

[Mister Dilsby]

Just now, something said:

エンタープライズ? Interesting, google translates it correctly as Enterprise. I probably would have gone with エンテーぺライゼ most far east asian people tend to append an 'e' to the end of my name (it is ending with a consonant), despite trying really hard not to pronounce that 'e' there But then again, I am no expert in far east Asian languages and my skills basically are barely sufficient to distinguish Chinese from Korean from Japanese...

Yeah, I speak no Japanese myself other than a few words having to do with drawing swords, hitting and/or throwing people (fun fact: Kuzzter holds rank of shodan in both aikido and iaido  ) I got that part of the graphic from the Japanese-language Wikipedia page for NCC-1701... hope I got the rest right also  

[Zhetaan]

3 minutes ago, Alchemist said:

It may be difficult to distinguish between not understanding the very concept of using violence (or threats to use it) to achieve something (in case there is the capability to really overwhelm others) and not understanding what reasonable results can ever be achieved by escalating armed conflict in such conditions, when everybody is potentially capable of dealing heavy damage to others (or having difficulties to estimate how much will be left after such conflict... and where is the point of doing something like that)

You make a good point here, especially since it points out one of the great conundrums of the science fiction author:  some aspects of a truly alien culture or modes of thought may be fundamentally incomprehensible to the human mind.  How does one write for a character who is more intelligent than the author?  How characterise a kind of thinking that one cannot describe?

I think that in this case, @Kuzzter has illustrated that Kerbals do not understand the concept of using violence:  Kenlie's interlude makes clear that he could not imagine what it meant to do exactly the opposite of rescuing the stranded ('Whatever that means.'), and immediately after that, he mentions that he didn't think a Kerbal could do the things that he saw.  Janny Kerman came the closest to wishing violence on someone, but she merely wished that something would kill MartyStu, a fictional character.  Can she connect the idea of an accidental death that occurs in a written story to intentional acts on the part of the author who deliberately wrote that death, and then extrapolate from there to the notion of inflicting intentional harm on a living person?  Maybe.  I do not know.

Yes, Gene had to essentially describe what it meant to be attacked because it appears that common Kerblish doesn't have a word for attack or murder.  That of itself only shows that they have no need to describe the concept--but if they don't need to describe it, then we can't say they understand it.  Rejecting the notion as unreasonable or insane still leaves us with some way to point out the idea, differentiate it from other ideas, and mark it as a target for rejection, even if the only descriptor we can use is something like 'undefined psychosis' or--my own favourite--the unabashedly Orwellian crimethink.

[something]

14 minutes ago, Zhetaan said:

but she merely wished that something would kill MartyStu, a fictional character

Me, a killer? Don't know where you got that from....

 

[StupidAndy]

what's so bad about engine nacelles? there not all that bad, for my first plane In career mode, I use only engine nacelles, they hold fuel, they intake air, and they fit perfectly, they are AWESOME

what's so bad about them?

[FyunchClick]

3 hours ago, Kuzzter said:

Yeah, I speak no Japanese myself other than a few words having to do with drawing swords, hitting and/or throwing people (fun fact: Kuzzter holds rank of shodan in both aikido and iaido  ) I got that part of the graphic from the Japanese-language Wikipedia page for NCC-1701... hope I got the rest right also  

Hey, iai shodan too. Having spend a little bit of time with Rosetta stone to learn Japanese (probably enough to politely inquire what time the restroom is), I'd say the "zu" at the end feels very much like how it would be spelled; seeing how a great many English words were officially adopted into the language and have a correct (and incorrect) spelling and pronunciation in Japanese, which may be quite different from the original, I wouldn't be surprised if it's official spelling.

[Mister Dilsby]

Well, at the risk of going off-topic, (wait, is it legally possible for me to go off-topic on this thread? Let's not find out!) the Google translate result for "enterprise" is given as, 

企業 

Kigyō

...I searched that first, and almost put those kanji in the panel because I liked the look of those the six characters together. (BTW for those who haven't figured out the rest yet the whole phrase reads "Uchuu Kūbo Enterprisu", meaning "Space Carrier Enterprise', which is of course a play on "Uchuu Senkan Yamato"

But, just to make sure, and this really is a best practice when using a machine translation in a language you don't actually know, I looked up the Japanese-language wiki page for the real sense of the word I wanted, which is of course the StarTrek vessel. That page gave the phonetic script version that I used. Glad I did, if I'd gone with kigyo I might have been saying something like "Space Carrier Business Undertaking"  

[Flow]

Well, let's just hope then that the Enterprise won't meet the same end as the Yamato. 

[Commander Zoom]

... again, I regret that I have but one 'like' to give to one of your posts.

But no regrets for giving you the perfect intro line.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Commander Zoom

[Cydonian Monk]

2 hours ago, Kuzzter said:

That page gave the phonetic script version that I used.

You chose correctly. In this sense  the name of the English vessel, "Enterprise," is a loan word. Katakana is generally more correct for such foreign words. 

[KAL 9000]

On 1/10/2017 at 11:52 AM, Kuzzter said:

surely

That's ADMIRAL Shirley to you, Captin!

[Emperor of the Titan Squid]

On 1/10/2017 at 2:00 PM, Kuzzter said:

(fun fact: Kuzzter holds rank of shodan in both aikido and iaido

Wow... I have some serious respect for that.

[Soda Popinski]

Gaah!!  Kuzzter commented on my Jool mission thread 10 days ago, and thus I discovered the glory of Kerbfleet (after a long KSP hiatus).  I've just finished binge reading through the threads, and now have NOTHING else to read.

I'm not sure if it was mentioned in the immense thread, but as a Trekkie there are nits I'd like to pick (or at least clarify).  While Kermulans are clearly based on Romulans, "Legate" comes from the Cardassian Union.  

The other thing pointed out ages ago was the real world vs. Star Trek (and Kerbfleet) use of "conn."  In Star Trek, there are actually two different things.  "Taking the Conn" is the act of becoming the officer of the deck, or conning officer.  They decide the ship's movements, but don't physically steer (helm).  

The Conn station is Flight Controller in TNG and later Star Trek.  This is the combined position of Navigator and Helm (in Original series - Chekov and Sulu, respectively).  In Star Trek: The Next Generation (TNG), those two positions forward of the Captain are Conn (Geordi early on and Wesley), and Operations (Data).  Yes, Captain Picard had the ship driven by a blind guy and a teenager.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Soda Popinski

[Just Jim]

36 minutes ago, Soda Popinski said:

Gaah!!  Kuzzter commented on my Jool mission thread 10 days ago, and thus I discovered the glory of Kerbfleet (after a long KSP hiatus).  I've just finished binge reading through the threads, and now have NOTHING else to read.

Have you read all three of his Kerbfleet series?

If so, there are plenty of other great stories in the fan works and mission report sections you could check out. 

Edited January 13, 2017 by Just Jim

[Soda Popinski]

Too true.  So many great stories.  What I love about a lot of them, is the writer/player is actually going through the game and having to handle the game mechanics.  So even they don't know exactly how it'll turn out.  Of course the problem with that is, they don't know exactly how it'll turn out (see "Lost").

I'll start reading another series once I complete my Jool Mission and start on my own mission report.  Otherwise, I'll never finish (I started it in 2014).

I was hoping to see a landing attempt on the Kraken carcass.  It's a lot of fun, but I think the Qwammer would be too large.  I barely managed it myself with a much smaller lander (though I was out of RCS fuel).

[Just Jim]

1 hour ago, Soda Popinski said:

So even they don't know exactly how it'll turn out.  Of course the problem with that is, they don't know exactly how it'll turn out (see "Lost").

Oh man... that is so true... 

[The solid fuel chemist]

(leaves computer for week)

(checks story)

Holy.

Freaking.

Krakens.

[Deddly]

@Soda Popinski, you make some very good points regarding similarities to Star Trek. We obviously can't expect you to go and read all the comments as well, but everything you mention was dealt with by Kuzzter

The short version is: Although these stories are clearly referencing Star Trek and parodying it to a certain extent, Kerbfleet isn't intended to be a copy of it. The Kerbulans are not Romulans, but they are a mix of them and many other badies in the trek universe, as well as new material invented by Kuzzter.

[something]

Well, there are references to quite an amount of SciFi series/films beyond Star Trek. Most famously 2001 A Space Odyssey and Close Encounters with the Third Kind and just recently Battleship Yamato has been mentioned... (I am still wondering whether the reference to the uninhabited surface of Kerbin was intentional or not)

Well, there are references to quite an amount of SciFi series/films beyond Star Trek. Most famously 2001 A Space Odyssey and Close Encounters with the Third Kind and just recently Battleship Yamato has been mentioned... (I am still wondering whether the reference to the uninhabited surface of Kerbin was intentional or not)