Dman979 Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 58 minutes ago, Kuzzter said: Yeah, I should show Sarge slamming into the opposite bulkhead next page Technically, if I agree with you, then it's not a suggestion (Boo! Hiss!), but an affirmation, instead. I wonder if Sarge knows Deeman? They seem like they might have had a conversation or two about the antics in Eve: Order Zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jim Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Oh, to blazes with the fire extinguisher!!! Where's the Seltzer?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dilsby Posted April 29, 2016 Author Share Posted April 29, 2016 2 hours ago, Starhawk said: Let's see - there's Kenlie and Lisa. Hmmmm. Have they talked? Did I miss anybody? They haven't talked, no--Kenlie's been on the bridge the whole time since Lisa found his k-pad. And you didn't miss anybody, there's 12 crew aboard Intrepid. 2 hours ago, SpaceplaneAddict said: Quebecois Clauselle! Awesome! Well, I never really meant to make her Quebecoise, I just thought that word was milder than the one I really wanted to use (which, I should point out, was spoken unbleeped multiple times by Captain Picard!) In any case it's been brought to my attention that the word is maybe not mild enough for this forum, and so I have replaced it with the general purpose Zut! 1 hour ago, Dman979 said: I wonder if Sarge knows Deeman? They seem like they might have had a conversation or two about the antics in Eve: Order Zero. Yes, Sarge just loves chatting up junior officers who are also lawyers.It's a pastime of his. 47 minutes ago, Just Jim said: Oh, to blazes with the fire extinguisher!!! Where's the Seltzer?????? Exactly! Once again, "if they'd only listened to Bob!" But then that plot hole couldn't get closed, and I would be an unhappy Kuzzter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deddly Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Glad he used a CO2 extinguisher. For a moment there, I was worried about how they were going to clear a load of dry powder in zero g, and it's totally not geeky that it's the first thing I thought of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jim Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Kuzzter said: Exactly! Once again, "if they'd only listened to Bob!" But then that plot hole couldn't get closed, and I would be an unhappy Kuzzter. Yes, but more important, did you get my really great pun??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dilsby Posted April 29, 2016 Author Share Posted April 29, 2016 37 minutes ago, Just Jim said: Yes, but more important, did you get my really great pun??? 'To blazes'? Yeah, I'm foaming at the mouth over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torgo Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 The following is not a nitpick or suggestion or anything other than a question of Kerbal nature as compared to humans... If the Kerbfleet Kerbs have no concept of violence (outside of Kenlie who can actually see it in his visions) how would Lisa be able to process what she reads in Kenlie's story? I imagine it would be like a native English speaker picking up a book written in Latin. You'd recognize the alphabet, and maybe even a good deal of the words because they are shared between languages, but you wouldn't likely be able to get the right context because most of the words would just be random collections of letters to you. It might also be like trying to teach a toddler how to ice skate. The toddler is familiar with walking, but skating is putting new tools on your feet and negotiating a totally foreign (unless you're a Canadian ) surface. If you move your feet, you might move a little bit, but it's very easy to fall down. So here is Lisa picking up a story that deals with things she has never experienced, and culturally has no means to process the words into meaningful thoughts. She'll understand the spaceship parts, but not the violence. Unless Kenlie is doing the story in webcomic form, there are probably no images to help form the thoughts in her mind. She'll likely understand that she doesn't understand these things, and that they are contrary to normal Kerbal behavior and are not good. Is that enough, though, for her to act on what she's found? We know seeing the violence is having an effect on Kenlie. Will reading about it also affect Lisa, but to a lesser degree? I'd love to hear other peoples' thoughts on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dilsby Posted April 29, 2016 Author Share Posted April 29, 2016 1 minute ago, Torgo said: If the Kerbfleet Kerbs have no concept of violence (outside of Kenlie who can actually see it in his visions) how would Lisa be able to process what she reads in Kenlie's story? That's a really good and interesting question! I'd try to answer it myself, but I think I should avoid activating "voice of God" mode so long as others are interested in discussing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
something Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Well, even if you do not have any concept of violence, you do know terms like death and hurting oneself, because you know - things happen. That's enough to describe murder and violence... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dman979 Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 3 minutes ago, Kuzzter said: That's a really good and interesting question! I'd try to answer it myself, but I think I should avoid activating "voice of God" mode so long as others are interested in discussing it. But the author is dead. there are six links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotius Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 Did Lisa just burned Kenlie's kpad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deddly Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 @Torgo, I have thought about that, too. In fact, I thought of it to the extent that I went back in the story line and found the first comic where Kenlie started writing back in Eve: Order Zero. The reactions of Lisa and the others who read his stories were exactly how I would imagine they would be for people who have no concept of villainy. Interestingly, Lisa did come to accept it quite quickly, even though it seemed outrageous. She even called out for Martystu to save them when they were in danger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jim Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Torgo said: If the Kerbfleet Kerbs have no concept of violence (outside of Kenlie who can actually see it in his visions) how would Lisa be able to process what she reads in Kenlie's story? This is an interesting thought... I was thinking perhaps she hasn't really processed it... perhaps reading something so alien (and horrible) to her has caused her to become a little Edited April 29, 2016 by Just Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceplaneAddict Posted April 29, 2016 Share Posted April 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Torgo said: It might also be like trying to teach a toddler how to ice skate. The toddler is familiar with walking, but skating is putting new tools on your feet and negotiating a totally foreign (unless you're a Canadian ) surface. If you move your feet, you might move a little bit, but it's very easy to fall down. I'm a canadian non-skater. ? *Determination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Rocket Scientist Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 6 hours ago, Torgo said: The following is not a nitpick or suggestion or anything other than a question of Kerbal nature as compared to humans... If the Kerbfleet Kerbs have no concept of violence (outside of Kenlie who can actually see it in his visions) how would Lisa be able to process what she reads in Kenlie's story? [...] Personally, I think it's more like having no concept of doing and violent thing. Like the way people have agreed not to use biological weapons, or worse, Kerbals would feel like that about any violence. So while they could imagine these things happening, they could not ever conceive of doing them themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torgo Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 7 hours ago, something said: Well, even if you do not have any concept of violence, you do know terms like death and hurting oneself, because you know - things happen. That's enough to describe murder and violence... 1 hour ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said: Personally, I think it's more like having no concept of doing and violent thing. Like the way people have agreed not to use biological weapons, or worse, Kerbals would feel like that about any violence. So while they could imagine these things happening, they could not ever conceive of doing them themselves. We, as humans know that, but do the Kerbs? I'm trying to see this strictly from their point of view, minimizing ethnocentrism as much as can be done. From Kuzzter's Kerbfleet Canon thread "...though it should be stressed that like all Kerbfleet kerbals, the concept of violence is completely unknown to them." I think we can be assume they have a concept of death, as General Order 2 dictates (paraphrasing) that no more Kerbs than necessary are to be put at risk on a mission. We have seen crash landings, but no deaths due to them. They also have a concept of right and wrong, as evidenced by the existence of the General Orders and a justice system. 7 hours ago, Deddly said: @Torgo, I have thought about that, too. In fact, I thought of it to the extent that I went back in the story line and found the first comic where Kenlie started writing back in Eve: Order Zero. The reactions of Lisa and the others who read his stories were exactly how I would imagine they would be for people who have no concept of villainy. Interestingly, Lisa did come to accept it quite quickly, even though it seemed outrageous. She even called out for Martystu to save them when they were in danger. The concept of a hero shouldn't be totally foreign. We witnessed several of them banding together to pull off a heroic mission to rescue the Kerbs stranded on Eve. They understand danger, and I'll assume accidental injury and death and death from old age (though I don't think we've seen this addressed as canon). 7 hours ago, Just Jim said: This is an interesting thought... I was thinking perhaps she hasn't really processed it... perhaps reading something so alien (and horrible) to her has caused her to become a little I think this is where I am. She understands exploding ships and danger, but explosions are accidents and danger is mitigate via planning. They aren't something one Kerb does to another. Even the board games are about cooperation, not competition. I'm not sure she (or any other Kerb who can't 'see' it like Kenlie does) could make the connection like he does. Kenlie 'sees' what happens, and we can presume by his reactions that he understands it, and his mind has become 'corrupted' because of it. Is reading about it enough to corrupt Lisa or other Kerbs as well? They seem pretty intelligent, so it's possible that after a few of them had discussions about it, they could work out what is really happening, but then what? Could you let these Kerbs back into the general population after their mission is over, now that their minds are also corrupted? If you're old enough to have seen The Gods Must Be Crazy, it touches on similar themes, where the accidental introduction of a Coke bottle causes a happy tribe of nomads to suffer anger and violence among themselves. The plot of the film involves ridding themselves of the evil, but could the community put that genie back in the bottle? 7 hours ago, Kuzzter said: That's a really good and interesting question! I'd try to answer it myself, but I think I should avoid activating "voice of God" mode so long as others are interested in discussing it. I would love to hear your ideas on it, so long as it's not giving away important plot points or anything else you might be saving for us for down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starhawk Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Kenlie seems to have grasped the idea of violence. He understands clearly enough that he is experiencing very significant fear. That fear has caused him to act in ways that the other kerbs might find irrational since they don't understand his motives. Lisa may be fearful after reading the story on a few levels. Standard fear based on the idea that kerbs could do that to each other. Or she may recognize the reality of the Kerbulans and be rightly afraid of them. There's also a higher level of fear that could cause her to destroy the k-pad. She may recognize the danger which the very ideas in Kenlie's stories pose to Kerbal society. The 'corruption' which @Torgo mentioned above. That's a genie you can't put back into the bottle. Kerbal sociology! For science! Happy Concerned landings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willbl3pic Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) If Wernher was from Kerbulus, it would mirror the real one originally being a pedant scientist quite well... Edit: the forum software appears to have changed the word to pedant. You know what it is. Edited April 30, 2016 by Willbl3pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dilsby Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 12 hours ago, Torgo said: I think this is where I am. She understands exploding ships and danger, but explosions are accidents and danger is mitigate via planning. They aren't something one Kerb does to another. Even the board games are about cooperation, not competition. I'm not sure she (or any other Kerb who can't 'see' it like Kenlie does) could make the connection like he does. Kenlie 'sees' what happens, and we can presume by his reactions that he understands it, and his mind has become 'corrupted' because of it. Is reading about it enough to corrupt Lisa or other Kerbs as well? They seem pretty intelligent, so it's possible that after a few of them had discussions about it, they could work out what is really happening, but then what? Could you let these Kerbs back into the general population after their mission is over, now that their minds are also corrupted? Yeah, this makes a lot of sense. As @Torgo and others have commented, it's not that violent deaths are unknown to kerbals. Rockets can crash, sometimes into each other, things can explode and people die. What's (literally) alien to them is the idea that someone would do so to another person intentionally. The concept of 'corruption' is an interesting one, and is really at the crux of the story I'm trying to tell. Once exposed to the concept of 'murderdeth', and an enemy that won't hesitate to do it to them, what will Our Heroes do? 6 hours ago, Starhawk said: Lisa may be fearful after reading the story on a few levels. Standard fear based on the idea that kerbs could do that to each other. Or she may recognize the reality of the Kerbulans and be rightly afraid of them. Right-- so, Lisa as well as any other Kerb would be able to leap from the concept of "rocket exploding and pilot dying because something crashed into it" to "someone MADE the probe crash into it" or from "person is in extreme pain due to electric shock" to "person wears a device that another person uses to deliver said shocks"-- after all, even Kerbfleet has the duct tape thing Great discussion, you guys have made my day/week/month. This is exactly why I decided to write Jool Odyssey in this way, to explore this concept! But a couple clarifications. I'm going from memory so could be wrong, but: --I don't think it was Lisa who read a Kenlie story before and said "save me Martystu", it was Jammy or something like that --Kenlie doesn't write graphic novels: his stuff is text-only. I'm adding the pictures so you can see what's going on --Up until now no one has ever read a 'murderdeth' story other than Kenlie. he Martystu story Kenlie wrote before involving the 'lookies' was strictly g-rated. Had the lookies caught the Kenlistar the consequences would have been 'biiig trouble' or something like that, not a real danger as we see from the Kerbulans. Busy weekend, but hope to continue on soon and reveal what it was Lisa set on fire and why-- but it was not Kenlie's k-pad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deddly Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kuzzter said: --I don't think it was Lisa who read a Kenlie story before and said "save me Martystu", it was Jammy or something like that Oops, sorry about that. I only looked a few days ago and I already got the name wrong. It was actually Kathna. Janny was also there, and was Kenlie's first fan. Edited April 30, 2016 by Deddly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dilsby Posted May 1, 2016 Author Share Posted May 1, 2016 OK fearless Kerbfleeters, I've downloaded 1.1.2 and am getting all the required mods in order. If all goes well, Bill will notice a "great disturbance in the forces" sometime this week. Hoping very much to do the upcoming planar correction burn at moderate fps... here goes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starhawk Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Concerns! What about multi-port docking? Happy Concerned landings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dilsby Posted May 1, 2016 Author Share Posted May 1, 2016 50 minutes ago, Starhawk said: What about multi-port docking? Oh right--is that still inoperative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whirligig Girl Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 (edited) Well, looks like you showed the Num's surface a while ago. Better start on that Kerbulus release thread. @Kuzzter, if you have any cool screenshots you want to send me for the release thread, don't hesitate! Edited May 1, 2016 by GregroxMun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dilsby Posted May 1, 2016 Author Share Posted May 1, 2016 5 minutes ago, GregroxMun said: Well, looks like you showed the Num's surface a while ago. Better start on that Kerbulus release thread. @Kuzzter, if you have any cool screenshots you want to send me for the release thread, don't hesitate! I did indeed! I'll get you some shots tomorrow sometime, maybe a Kerbulan ship orbiting ominously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.