Devnote Tuesday: Wednesday Edition!

[razark]

7 hours ago, Uldis said:

Why developers dont make beta versions which users can get if they accept it. That would be nice way to get bugs out and get mods on final realise date?

Snarky: What makes you think the released versions aren't Beta?

Honest: They tried.  Chaos resulted.  Many people complaining < few people properly bug-reporting.

[Hobbes Novakoff]

4 hours ago, Wallygator said:

Holiday wish: I just hope that somewhere in the grand mix is the time and space to rethink some early (IMHO very poor) design decisions regarding Kerbal experience, lack of a kerbal training game mechanic, the inclusion of essential flight information, and also a more comprehensive take on science activities and EVA dynamics (An equal balance of flying about AND doing stuff when you get there).

I agree with some of your sentiment-we need stock KER, that much is obvious, and science could be improved. However... um... I'm not quite sure you've really played the game lately, as there was in fact a Kerbal training system/XP mechanic implemented in 0.90. (Or maybe it was 1.0?) 

Also, I don't think KSP is particularly a "doing stuff when you get there" type game. Why confine yourself to a 10-km radius around your landing site when you have a solar system hundreds of millions of kilometers across to explore? We have what, 200 parts for space? We have about 13 for the surface. (Large and small IRSU drills and refineries, 4 wheels, that weird probe body, a surface scanner, and 3 ladders.) If I wanted a deep surface experience, I'd buy any open-world game released in the past two years.

[CrashTestDanny]

17 hours ago, pellinor said:

Usually I care more about where I am headed than where I come from. So the orbital prediction (the future part of the trajectory) is the most important part. And this part is currently drawn faintly, and hard to see with for the darker orbit colors. I think both ways are sort of intuitive, but flipping the brightness would give better usability.

Exactly what I was trying to say...  "What's behind me, she no matter!"

Danny

[Majorjim!]

6 minutes ago, Hobbes Novakoff said:

 If I wanted a deep surface experience, I'd buy any open-world game released in the past two years.

You mean like Kerbal space program...

[Apollo13]

Concerning new forum application.  Please fix the MAJOR BUG whereby a carriage_return/Enter character cause double-spacing instead of a single-spaced line.  This is truly annoying. I was hoping this BUG would be fixed by now.

[softweir]

14 minutes ago, Apollo13 said:

Concerning new forum application.  Please fix the MAJOR BUG whereby a carriage_return/Enter character cause double-spacing instead of a single-spaced line.  This is truly annoying. I was hoping this BUG would be fixed by now.

It isn't a bug. It's an intended feature! When you get out into the wide world and start using wordprocessors, you will find that they use the convention that Enter =  spaced paragraph. This forum, like several of the newest ones, uses the same convention. For those of us who are used to using worprocessors properly, this convention, this is only slightly annoying, and then only when we forget for a moment that we are using the new forum.

The only difference is that worprocessors allow one to vary the spacing using styles. That would be neat.

If you really need an unspace new-line, use CTRL+Enter.

[Majorjim!]

Just now, softweir said:

It isn't a bug. It's an intended feature! When you get out into the wide world and start using wordprocessors, you will find that they use the convention that Enter =  spaced paragraph.

I have been 'out into the wide world' for many a year and have never had to use anything as soul destroying as word processors.

[sal_vager]

Shift+enter will give you a single line space.
Like this.

Honestly it's not a bug.

[Wallygator]

3 hours ago, Hobbes Novakoff said:

I agree with some of your sentiment-we need stock KER, that much is obvious, and science could be improved. However... um... I'm not quite sure you've really played the game lately, as there was in fact a Kerbal training system/XP mechanic implemented in 0.90. (Or maybe it was 1.0?) 

Also, I don't think KSP is particularly a "doing stuff when you get there" type game. Why confine yourself to a 10-km radius around your landing site when you have a solar system hundreds of millions of kilometers across to explore? We have what, 200 parts for space? We have about 13 for the surface. (Large and small IRSU drills and refineries, 4 wheels, that weird probe body, a surface scanner, and 3 ladders.) If I wanted a deep surface experience, I'd buy any open-world game released in the past two years.

I have played the game very very recently. I play every day. Hence my comments. 

[steve_v]

2 hours ago, Majorjim said:

I have been 'out into the wide world' for many a year and have never had to use anything as soul destroying as word processors.

Likewise. If I want fancy formatting I'll use a text editor + markup (usually LaTeX). I've been using/building/hacking on PCs for nearly 20 years and I recon I can count the times I've seriously used a "word processor" on one hand. I get asked some variation of "how do I do (x) in MS Word etc." on a daily basis, my answer: No idea; don't use, won't use.

 

2 hours ago, sal_vager said:

Shift+enter will give you a single line space.

Honestly it's not a bug.

No, it's by design, but this does not make it any less annoying.

Edited December 10, 2015 by steve_v

[Waxing_Kibbous]

It'd be cool if the new orbit drawing code could show optimal transfer times in the tracking station- a mode where the orbit goes from a red-yellow-green gradient showing the location of the planet where the most efficient launch time would occur. Seems Kerbally enough without involving those nasty numbers

[WuphonsReach]

Speaking of the tracking center, we really need a few more pre-defined categories for our craft.  For instance:

• Satellite (it's not a probe, it's not a station, it's something else)
• Large Ship (for those bigger vessels)
• Aircraft
• Space planes

Or the ability to mark vessels as hidden or dimmed in the tracking center so that we can't click on them by accident and their orbits don't clutter up the view.

[Hobbes Novakoff]

2 hours ago, Wallygator said:

I have played the game very very recently. I play every day. Hence my comments. 

In that case, my mistake.

[Hobbes Novakoff]

4 hours ago, Majorjim said:

You mean like Kerbal space program...

Well played. But KSP is a sandbox game, not an open-world game. Also, if it were an open-world game, wouldn't be more like open worlds?

Edited December 10, 2015 by Hobbes Novakoff

[Alshain]

51 minutes ago, WuphonsReach said:

Speaking of the tracking center, we really need a few more pre-defined categories for our craft.  For instance:

• Satellite (it's not a probe, it's not a station, it's something else)
• Large Ship (for those bigger vessels)
• Aircraft
• Space planes

Or the ability to mark vessels as hidden or dimmed in the tracking center so that we can't click on them by accident and their orbits don't clutter up the view.

We do need more categories, but yours are a bit redundant.  Satellite I agree with, a science probe being sent to land on Eve should not be lumped in with a communications satellite.  Aircraft/Plane I agree with, but there should not be a distinction between that and Space Plane, that would be redundant.. if the icon is in space, it's a space plane.  Large Ship is unnecessary and redundant.

A search bar would be nice.  Filtering by celestial body influence would be nice.

Most of all, mods should be able to add more.  Given the way the buttons are crammed into a visual frame element in those screenshots that shrinks shortly after the button bar ends, I'm guessing that isn't going to be possible... unless that "shrinking" part of the frame moves when the bar is expanded, but I doubt it.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Alshain

[Apollo13]

5 hours ago, softweir said:

It isn't a bug. It's an intended feature! When you get out into the wide world and start using wordprocessors, you will find that they use the convention that Enter =  spaced paragraph. This forum, like several of the newest ones, uses the same convention. For those of us who are used to using worprocessors properly, this convention, this is only slightly annoying, and then only when we forget for a moment that we are using the new forum.

I've been out in the wide world for over 60 years, including over 40 in information technology (we used to call it automated data processing back in the day) as a developer.  I've typed hundreds of thousands of lines of text.  In all cases, unless I specifically set it to double space, I got a single line space upon entering ENTER/Carriage-return.  And, this is the ONLY forum software I've used (and I've used a few dozen), that has this "feature".

Yes, an ENTER means new paragraph, but it should single-space.  If I want a line between paragraphs, then I'll hit ENTER twice.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Apollo13

[Wallygator]

^ this!  So much this. 

Still, it's the one thing only that I dislike regarding the forum upgrade

Also, forgot to say, nice dev notes. And please, please do not let Dr. T write them. Ever.      :-)

 

Edited December 11, 2015 by Wallygator

[JohnF]

15 hours ago, Skalou said:

Ah you see squad, the confusion is beginning!

it's not a trail showing your past positions but an instantaneous predicted trajectory! (they can match under certain circumstances)

it's too late to look behind, look ahead...

the author of the mod Trajectories understood it:

This is the only thing that makes sense to me. When you are going to orbit, the thick line behind you is not showing your past trajectory, right? The deviation is obvious there. I wonder how hard an option in gameplay settings would be for them.

[softweir]

3 hours ago, Apollo13 said:

I've been out in the wide world for over 60 years, including over 40 in information technology (we used to call it automated data processing back in the day) as a developer.  I've typed hundreds of thousands of lines of text.  In all cases, unless I specifically set it to double space, I got a single line space upon entering ENTER/Carriage-return.  And, this is the ONLY forum software I've used (and I've used a few dozen), that has this "feature".

Yes, an ENTER means new paragraph, but it should single-space.  If I want a line between paragraphs, then I'll hit ENTER twice.

Sorry I was patronising.

[SkyRender]

So HarvesteR was busy reticulating splines, then?

[Brucey]

@Devs

Thanks for porting the game to Unity 5.  Much appreciated.  Take as long as you need.

Brucey

 

[Damien_The_Unbeliever]

6 hours ago, Apollo13 said:

I've been out in the wide world for over 60 years, including over 40 in information technology (we used to call it automated data processing back in the day) as a developer.  I've typed hundreds of thousands of lines of text.  In all cases, unless I specifically set it to double space, I got a single line space upon entering ENTER/Carriage-return.  And, this is the ONLY forum software I've used (and I've used a few dozen), that has this "feature".

Yes, an ENTER means new paragraph, but it should single-space.  If I want a line between paragraphs, then I'll hit ENTER twice.

Take it up with your browser maker, not the people who write the forum software or (as here) even the people who just use the forum software.

Open a text editor, copy and paste the following into a blank file:

<html>
<head>
<title>ABC</title>
</head>
<body>
<div contentEditable="true">
<p>Start here</p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

Save the file as "abc.html" somewhere and then open it in your browser. Put the cursor between "start" and "here" and press enter. I'd be willing to bet good money you get a new paragraph.
 

[mattinoz]

7 hours ago, Waxing_Kibbous said:

It'd be cool if the new orbit drawing code could show optimal transfer times in the tracking station- a mode where the orbit goes from a red-yellow-green gradient showing the location of the planet where the most efficient launch time would occur. Seems Kerbally enough without involving those nasty numbers

Would also be good if the orbit line of the body you are orbiting stayed visible as you zoomed inside it's sphere of influence.

Then we would need to zoom out check orbit direction orient view then zoom in to pick the right spot in our craft orbit to be able to leave the SOI prograde or retrograde for the transfer. 90% my guess is close but but often enough it isn't so you have to check. 

Then if they had makers for low fuel cost transfers,  as you suggested, you see those scroll throw the view over time. Aiding in discoverablity of transfers.

7 hours ago, WuphonsReach said:

Speaking of the tracking center, we really need a few more pre-defined categories for our craft.  For instance:

• Satellite (it's not a probe, it's not a station, it's something else)
• Large Ship (for those bigger vessels)
• Aircraft
• Space planes

Or the ability to mark vessels as hidden or dimmed in the tracking center so that we can't click on them by accident and their orbits don't clutter up the view.

Haven't they already solved the sorting problem(mostly) in the VAB/SPH?

To me this same interface for Tracking station for crafts would be a bonus and maybe allow Squad to recycle some code. Lets us make custom groups like we can make custom part groups. We should be able to make custom craft groups and use them however we want.

Not to mention the small benefit of making the game seem more coherent as a whole.

Still I think the most of the ones you noted should be there as standard.

[richfiles]

On December 9, 2015 5:42:43 PM, pellinor said:

Usually I care more about where I am headed than where I come from. So the orbital prediction (the future part of the trajectory) is the most important part. And this part is currently drawn faintly, and hard to see with for the darker orbit colors. I think both ways are sort of intuitive, but flipping the brightness would give better usability.

Maybe, with some user feedback, they'll simply add a tick box in the settings to make the fading trail bodies or lead bodies. I personally like the trailing effect.
As for the orbit splines, as they are... DANG, that's smexy! I love them! 

Also, I agree whole heartedly that we need FAR more craft designations for the tracking center.
Probe needs to be split into Probe and ComSats
Capsule needs to be split into Capsule, Shuttle, and Aircraft... And YES, shuttles and aircraft are very different things. They deserve separate designators.
I would also love to see a differentiation between unmanned and manned rovers.

Furthermore, making the system extensible, so that mod creators can create custom vessel classes (colonies, habitats, weapons platforms, etc), or letting people add new custom defined vessel classes would be amazing! Creating a new class for your convoy to Jool would be cool! Say you have ten vessels, spaced several days apart, all headed to Joolian exploration. Being able to hit a button and have ONLY those vessels appear would be very, very convenient!

Likewise, another option might be to sort vessels by SoI, or by SoI + vessels with an intercept or nearby pass of an SoI at a later date... That'd be a cool sort option too.

Anyway, keep up the good work guys, and don't burn yourselves out over the holiday... I'm still playing Fallout 4, so you have plenty time! 

*Humor removed to keep on topic* 

Edited December 15, 2015 by richfiles

[sal_vager]

1 hour ago, richfiles said:

P.S. Disappointed the Forum limits you to 25 likes per day. It's bad enough likes are worth less than the old rep, but not they cut you off after only 25 votes??? I call shenanigans!  Le GASP! Our likes are being silenced! 

Stay on topic please richfiles, you had a limit of giving 10 rep points per day on VB, you have 15 more "likes" on the new forums.