The Saga of Emiko Station - Complete

[Alchemist]

28 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

Oh, FYI, I'm using Emiko's Magic Boulder at the KSC for a target. 

Speaking of which, I think there was a bug when target velocity display gives you your orbital velocity (instead of surface-relative) when you target something landed out of stuff loading range. And given slight vector mismatch on the navball it seems to be the case on the screenshot. Meaning that instead of 227 m/s you were probably flying at the edge of a total stall even for this vehicle

[DualDesertEagle]

To those who doubt that Laythe's air is breathable:

Look at it this way, Laythe has not only an atmosphere but also liquid water, while the atmosphere's density looks to be about the same as on Kerbin, at least to me.

So I think a breathable atmosphere on Laythe does make sense

Edited December 13, 2016 by DualDesertEagle

[Just Jim]

13 minutes ago, Alchemist said:

Speaking of which, I think there was a bug when target velocity display gives you your orbital velocity (instead of surface-relative) when you target something landed out of stuff loading range. And given slight vector mismatch on the navball it seems to be the case on the screenshot. Meaning that instead of 227 m/s you were probably flying at the edge of a total stall even for this vehicle

Oh hey, I think your right! I never noticed it, but if I was that close to a stall, it would help explain why I lost control so easily. 

11 minutes ago, DualDesertEagle said:

Look at it this way, Laythe has not only an atmosphere but also liquid water, while the atmosphere's density looks to be about the same as on Kerbin, at least to me.

So I think a breathable atmosphere on Laythe does make sense

That's the way I look at it. Plus it's fiction, so I figure I can bend the rules a little if I want... lol.  

Edited December 13, 2016 by Just Jim

[Just Jim]

The biggest question is what are the oceans made of if they don't freeze. @Kuzzter's last page put forth the idea it might be alcohol, and whether he was joking or not, I'm starting to like this.

20 hours ago, Kuzzter said:

And, since breathable Laythe atmosphere is used under license from Kuzzter Greenscreen Technologies Ltd, you'll have to alsi ask Gene or Kerenna to drink the water and tell me what it's made of.  

I'm fairly sure alcohol is an organic molecule, but I'm thinking if there's some life form, maybe living really deep near a hydro-thermal vent, that evolved some form of internal fermentation process to digest it's food, and gives off pure alcohol as a byproduct, then Voila', you have a non-freezing 80 proof ocean!

Edited December 13, 2016 by Just Jim

[Cydonian Monk]

49 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

I'm fairly sure alcohol is an organic molecule.....

Unless there's some impossibly alien form of alcohol that doesn't involve bonding hydroxyl to saturated Carbon, then yes. Yes it is. 

Alcohols can be formed through non-biological processes though, so don't assume its presence implies life. 

I ran a quick check, but I don't have any screenshots showing the exact temperatures where I landed on Laythe. I'm curious enough to go check the probes and planes now when I get home. (FWIW, the DMagic surface hydrogen scan experiment also suggests the presence of ammonia and alcohol, though that's obviously not Squad-canon.)

Edited December 13, 2016 by Cydonian Monk

[Just Jim]

10 minutes ago, Cydonian Monk said:

Unless there's some impossibly alien form of alcohol that doesn't involve bonding hydroxyl to saturated Carbon, then yes. Yes it is. 

Alcohols can be formed through non-biological processes though, so don't assume its presence implies life. 

I thought it was, but I'm getting old... lol.  And I prefer it being biological, more fun that way. 

11 minutes ago, Cydonian Monk said:

I ran a quick check, but I don't have any screenshots showing the exact temperatures where I landed on Laythe. I'm curious enough to go check the probes and planes now when I get home. (FWIW, the DMagic surface hydrogen scan experiment also suggests the presence of ammonia and alcohol, though that's obviously not Squad-canon.)

Yes, please do. I'm going out in a bit, so I can't check until tomorrow morning. I can get you the exact coordinates if you want, but I don't know if it makes a difference. The other thing I'm curious about is the daytime temp, and if there's any significant change between day and night.

 

[Alchemist]

There's also the question of how such things combine with oxidative atmosphere (and on Laythe it's good enough for a jet engine).
That means no mixtures that would go boom (or end up in burning ocean surface) from an ignition source and also nothing that would rather quickly get fully oxidized at lower concentratons. Ammonia is relatively low-reactive, but things like alcohol would probably just not work even at non-flammable concentrations and at reduced temperatures. And even if it reacts very slowly, there still has to be something to replenish both this substance and oxygen, most likely something biological

[Just Jim]

4 hours ago, Alchemist said:

There's also the question of how such things combine with oxidative atmosphere (and on Laythe it's good enough for a jet engine).
That means no mixtures that would go boom (or end up in burning ocean surface) from an ignition source and also nothing that would rather quickly get fully oxidized at lower concentratons. Ammonia is relatively low-reactive, but things like alcohol would probably just not work even at non-flammable concentrations and at reduced temperatures. And even if it reacts very slowly, there still has to be something to replenish both this substance and oxygen, most likely something biological

Perhaps some form of bacteria or microscopic plant life living in the sand?

Edited December 14, 2016 by Just Jim

[adsii1970]

 @Just Jim   The way you describe the circus, first time I read it, I pictured it as a Kerbal version of Monty Python 's flying circus...

[Just Jim]

11 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

 @Just Jim   The way you describe the circus, first time I read it, I pictured it as a Kerbal version of Monty Python 's flying circus...

Well, besides hoping for a laugh, I was trying to imagine how it much sound to the Rocklady and others when Emiko is trying to describe Earth, factoring in her somewhat scrambled memory and speech patterns. I'm thinking it must sound rather bizarre to those listening to her.

Plus Emiko would have no clue what @Geschosskopf's actual "Travelling Circus" is. She only knows what a regular Earth circus is. I'll be getting into this more in the next chapter.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Just Jim

[Cydonian Monk]

4 hours ago, Just Jim said:

Yes, please do. I'm going out in a bit, so I can't check until tomorrow morning. I can get you the exact coordinates if you want.....

That will probably help.

 

Some observations on the air temperatures at Laythe:

Observations were recorded out of time warp after allowing the wacko-warped-thermo to "settle." Max time warp of x6 between observations, x4 appeared closest to actual, resting measurements. Observation platform was allowed 1 day to cool down to ambient temperature after each move.

At my Laythe landing site, altitude of 176m, 5°N of the equator: The typical temperature was ~277K. Coldest nighttime observation was 265K. The coldest observed overall was while in Jool's shadow, just after "sunrise" at 263K. Highest observed was 283K.

The temperature varied as much as 5K at any time of the day: showing evidence of random weather patterns. (Static air pressure disputes that.)

I then moved the Aluminium remote measurement platform to sea level (in water, with instrument above water) and repeated the observations. Highest observation was 287K at mid day, lowest nighttime was 280K. No more than 2-3K variation at sea level. Air pressures at sea level reported 60.7 mystery units at all times of day.

Remote measurement platform was then relocated to 30°N latitude, sea-level altitude. Highest observation was 287K, lowest nighttime observaton was 271K. Typical observation was above 273K, closer to 277K. More variation observed here, as much as 5-7K. Air pressure was constant 60.7 mystery units.

Temperature observations using an older instrument at an elevation of 900m and near equatorial were never above 273K, showing a max of 272K at mid day and minimum of 259K just before sunset.

 

 

Summary: Sea-level near-equatorial observations indicate air temperature is typically above freezing point of water for majority of Laythe's day. Daytime temperature is measurably higher than nighttime. 

Conclusion: Equatorial sea level atmospheric temperatures support liquid water.

Recommendation: A more detailed observation using a data exporter to build a spreadsheet is recommended, with observations collected at a variety of latitudes and altitudes. 

Edited December 14, 2016 by Cydonian Monk

[adsii1970]

Could Laythe just have an extremely salty ocean?

[Mister Dilsby]

19 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

Could Laythe just have an extremely salty ocean?

Observations indicate that's not probable--salt would make things float better, not worse, and I happen to know things float worse there  

[Just Jim]

38 minutes ago, Kuzzter said:

Observations indicate that's not probable--salt would make things float better, not worse, and I happen to know things float worse there  

I was just about to point out the same thing. But @Kuzzter, you're too polite to post your own pages, so I will... lol 

@adsii1970 If you read to the end of this section, you'll see exactly what he means. Things don't float well on Laythe... 

This is where things get a little weird. A high salt ocean wouldn't freeze, but Kuzzter's ship should be bobbing on the surface like a cork.

 

13 hours ago, Cydonian Monk said:

Summary: Sea-level near-equatorial observations indicate air temperature is typically above freezing point of water for majority of Laythe's day. Daytime temperature is measurably higher than nighttime. 

Conclusion: Equatorial sea level atmospheric temperatures support liquid water.

Recommendation: A more detailed observation using a data exporter to build a spreadsheet is recommended, with observations collected at a variety of latitudes and altitudes. 

Wow, this is really brilliant! Thank you.

I checked, and the beach location is 18° 20' N, 173° 14' W.  If you're using HyperEdit lander it's 18.3437, -173.2403.

I am really fascinated by this, and really curious about the other planets now, especially Eve and Duna. I never really took things like radical temp changes between day and night and possible changes in atmospherics too seriously... this is going to change.

 

Edited December 14, 2016 by Just Jim

[adsii1970]

2 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

Wow, this is really brilliant! Thank you. (@Cydonian Monk)

I checked, and the beach location is 18° 20' N, 173° 14' W.  If you're using HyperEdit lander it's 18.3437, -173.2403.

I am really fascinated by this, and really curious about the other planets now, especially Eve and Duna. I never really took things like radical temp changes between day and night and possible changes in atmospherics too seriously... this is going to change.

[edited by adsii1970 for relevant content I wanted to talk about]

This is brilliant. Makes me want to launch even more scientific missions to the various places yet to visit...

[Alchemist]

18 hours ago, Just Jim said:

Perhaps some form of bacteria or microscopic plant life living in the sand?

I'd rather suspect it living in the water, especially on such an ocean-covered moon. Probably some kind of algae

[Buzz light fear]

Why not ave it be the kraken that makes the alcohol it would seem likely that the kraken produce alcohol as a byproduct of digestion because very little is known about them maybe the started out on lathe then migrated into deep space after messing up their home moon so bad.

[Kerbart]

On 12/12/2016 at 6:17 PM, Just Jim said:

Yes, it's Laythe, and in my universe you can breath there.... but to clarify things I added a small disclaimer to the ending... 

You should add Don't try this at home... or at Laythe

[Just Jim]

19 hours ago, Buzz light fear said:

Why not ave it be the kraken that makes the alcohol it would seem likely that the kraken produce alcohol as a byproduct of digestion because very little is known about them maybe the started out on lathe then migrated into deep space after messing up their home moon so bad.

Actually the alcohol thing is just a running joke because of @Kuzzter's last couple pages. I don't know if I'll actually mention it or not.

But you're not far off on the rest. I can tell you this much. The Krakens are not from the Kerbol solar system. And you're absolutely correct that they fled their home world because it was so ruined.... but this was eons ago...  

 

[adsii1970]

So... rereading some of the previous chapters last night AND not being able to sleep, I decided to tinker in KSP last night. I present the newest auxiliary vessel type in the Kerbin navy - the Emiko class harbor tug. It's loosely based on the tugs I see passing by my back door on a daily basis...

This is the first ocean-going vessel I've made without using at least a handful of parts from Planetary Bases. This primarily relies on the Buffalo mod from @Angel-125

Edited December 15, 2016 by adsii1970

[Buzz light fear]

3 hours ago, Just Jim said:

Actually the alcohol thing is just a running joke because of @Kuzzter's last couple pages. I don't know if I'll actually mention it or not.

But you're not far off on the rest. I can tell you this much. The Krakens are not from the Kerbol solar system. And you're absolutely correct that they fled their home world because it was so ruined.... but this was eons ago...  

 

Ok I gues I got punted by you all

[Just Jim]

40 minutes ago, Buzz light fear said:

Ok I gues I got punted by you all

Not at all. But in all honesty, I've had all this planned out a long time ago.

1 hour ago, adsii1970 said:

So... rereading some of the previous chapters last night AND not being able to sleep, I decided to tinker in KSP last night. I present the newest auxiliary vessel type in the Kerbin navy - the Emiko class harbor tug. It's loosely based on the tugs I see passing by my back door on a daily basis...

This is the first ocean-going vessel I've made without using at least a handful of parts from Planetary Bases. This primarily relies on the Buffalo mod from @Angel-125

Oh wow, brilliant!  Now Emiko's a tug boat!  hehe

Truth is, I love ships of all kinds, and I have a soft spot for Tugboats. They're really tough BadS little ships, and totally underappreciated. Thank you!

[adsii1970]

16 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

Oh wow, brilliant!  Now Emiko's a tug boat!  hehe

Truth is, I love ships of all kinds, and I have a soft spot for Tugboats. They're really tough BadS little ships, and totally underappreciated. Thank you!

[edited by adsii1970 for relevant content I want to discuss]

Thanks! When I went to Pearl Harbor on assignment, I was amazed that even the largest aircraft carrier needs a tug to get her in and out of her berth. So... never underestimate the importance of tug boats! And normally, a tug remains in harbor (unless it is a river tug), where it is considered as "on station." Get it - now in my world, I can say Emiko is on station... Besides, it is a tribute to a great story!

1 hour ago, Buzz light fear said:

Ok I gues I got punted by you all

Not so. I can tell you with some certainty that @Just Jim 's mind is normally two or three chapters ahead of what he's currently working on sharing with us here, on the forum. Yes... I do know some of the stuff, because we've shared story line ideas. As turn-about, he also knows where Kerny's journal is heading - because I do the same thing... there are a couple of people I bounce ideas off to see how well they work. I've given him a rundown of the major story elements about six chapters in advance!

What this means is that any speculation you might do about what may be in the next chapter has already been thought about by @Just Jim. But who's to say; if you share your idea here on the forum, he might like it well enough to use in a future chapter.

Spoiler

So - you really thought I would share what I know? Hahaha... and I'm not going to tell you what I know or what I speculate might happen!

 

[Draconiator]

so Gene and Kerenna are engaged now...lets backtrack to what we know about Laythe.

Laythe, in his universe, is breathable.  But this breathable atmosphere is 0.8 of Kerbin's.  So, I think it's safe to assume they'll be breathing hard for 2 reasons.

[Just Jim]

9 minutes ago, Draconiator said:

so Gene and Kerenna are engaged now...lets backtrack to what we know about Laythe.

Laythe, in his universe, is breathable.  But this breathable atmosphere is 0.8 of Kerbin's.  So, I think it's safe to assume they'll be breathing hard for 2 reasons.

I am SO not touching this... lmao!!!!