Remove the terrible "can't activate engine while stowed" mechanic

[H2O.]

I agree, remove the mechanic. A safety ? For Kerbals ? That doesn't make any sense.

Seriously, if it is removed, every design that works now will still works, plus it allows new stuff.

The "stowed" thing was a bad idea. No hard feelings, bad ideas happens all the time to a lot of bright people. Drop it and you won't take anything away from anybody.

Edited December 29, 2015 by H2O.

[Majorjim!]

8 hours ago, H2O. said:

I agree, remove the mechanic. A safety ? For Kerbals ? That doesn't make any sense.

Seriously, if it is removed, every design that works now will still works, plus it allows new stuff.

The "stowed" thing was a bad idea. No hard feelings, bad ideas happens all the time to a lot of bright people. Drop it and you won't take anything away from anybody.

This is sense. The mechanic servers no good purpose. Has anyone started a poll? I'm sure it would be a landslide victory for the sane.

[Delta_8930]

Examples: Titan II and some Chinese Long March rockets

They actually ignite the engines inside the interstage, and small doors on the outside open up to allow the exhaust to escape.

I've also had this problem with the Orion MES in the Chaka Monkey pack. It got annoying enough that I couldn't even get the Orion to orbit since the "bug" prevented the Orion MES from igniting, even after it is separated from the fairing. 

[toril]

personally I like the mechanic. But I consider it rather horrifically bugged atm as the stowed flag doesn't go away when the fairing does. Assuming of course the fairing is never staged.  I'm not sure how difficult it would be to add a check to see if A. the fairing exists on the ship and B. if there is anything above/below the fairing when the engine in question is staged.

[Majorjim!]

Just now, toril said:

personally I like the mechanic. But I consider it rather horrifically bugged atm as the stowed flag doesn't go away when the fairing does. Assuming of course the fairing is never staged.  I'm not sure how difficult it would be to add a check to see if A. the fairing exists on the ship and B. if there is anything above/below the fairing when the engine in question is staged.

Why do you like it?

[toril]

1 minute ago, Majorjim said:

Why do you like it?

Basically because I'm horrible at staging complex craft lol.

[monstah]

On ‎18‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 4:29 AM, NathanKell said:

Just an FYI, this bit of MM code will disable it.

https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/blob/master/GameData/RealismOverhaul/RealismOverhaul_Global_Config.cfg#L19-L25

Hey, thanks for that!

I've tried messing around with the fairing themselves, since I'm using FAR any 'fairing module' should't matter, but had no success.

[Majorjim!]

Just now, toril said:

Basically because I'm horrible at staging complex craft lol.

It's not a skill man. You either do it (correct staging) or you do not. If you mess up the staging I don't see how this mechanic helps. Miss-staging is cataclysmic either way.

[steve_v]

Hmm, this will either be a perfect example of why this thing should die, or a broken image, but as there's no preview and this editor is a load of manure I guess I'll just try it and see...

 

Nope, guess not.

Of course, normally I'd just delete this now pointless post... but that's broken too. I'm over fighting this steaming pile. Nevermind.

 

Edited December 29, 2015 by steve_v

[pandaman]

Off topic, I know, but...

@monstah Nice tribute.  RIP Lemmy.

 

 

[pandaman]

Back on topic...

Though not a huge issue for me, overall I'd prefer the restriction to be removed.

If it's only purpose is to protect the player from silly mistakes then why not add an autopilot to stop us hitting the ground too fast?

[toril]

1 hour ago, Majorjim said:

It's not a skill man. You either do it (correct staging) or you do not. If you mess up the staging I don't see how this mechanic helps. Miss-staging is cataclysmic either way.

It is a skill when you build in a way not intended by the developers. Because at that point the auto staging is royally messed up and you have to hunt and repair.

[Majorjim!]

Just now, toril said:

It is a skill when you build in a way not intended by the developers. Because at that point the auto staging is royally messed up and you have to hunt and repair.

I don't follow you.. Auto staging? Every craft I have ever made has needed an adjustment to the staging. I don't think the developers thought otherwise. What you say seems to not be connected to the thread or my post.

 Can you be clearer?

Edited December 29, 2015 by Majorjim

[Pthigrivi]

Can we remove the terrible tone of these threads?

[monstah]

16 minutes ago, toril said:

It is a skill when you build in a way not intended by the developers. Because at that point the auto staging is royally messed up and you have to hunt and repair.

 

9 minutes ago, Majorjim said:

I don't follow you.. Auto staging? Every craft I have ever made has needed an adjustment to the staging. I don't think the developers thought otherwise. What you say seems to not be connected to the thread or my post.

 Can you be clearer?

I think he means the Auto Stage button, right there in the bottom of the stage list, on the VAB/SPH. Never noticed it? Good, because it will only do you harm!

@toril, don't worry. It's not that you don't have the skill, it's rather that that button only screws up. Always do your staging yourself, it's just a matter of dragging stuff to order it! (I don't mean to insult SQUAD's work at implementing auto-stage, I just think it's wrong for them to even attempt it - even a simple design can have multiple 'interpretations' of 'proper' stage ordering, and what is natural for some players is an abomination to others; plus most designs are far from simple)

4 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

Can we remove the terrible tone of these threads?

I actually think this is the most amiable thread I've seen in some time in relation to this complaint (and others).

Edited December 29, 2015 by monstah

[Pthigrivi]

Yikes, some low bars we're vaulting. Don't get me wrong there have been some legit concerns lately. It's just completely possible to offer up constructive criticism and still be polite. 

Edited December 29, 2015 by Pthigrivi

[322997am]

Better form is lower. Any moderator delete this post

Edited December 30, 2015 by 322997am

[Red Iron Crown]

That's a horrible way to do a poll, there's nothing preventing people from voting multiple times (I just voted three times to check).

[AlamoVampire]

Just gonna leave this here as yet ANOTHER example of why this bs has got to go.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/128825-whats-the-best-method-to-achieve-a-successful-landing-unlike-this-one-gif/

[maccollo]

4 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

Just gonna leave this here as yet ANOTHER example of why this bs has got to go.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/128825-whats-the-best-method-to-achieve-a-successful-landing-unlike-this-one-gif/

Well, at least I think the devs know about it, because they retweeted it: https://twitter.com/kerbalspacep/status/681521349727285249
Anyway, this seems like something that go against squads usual principle, so I think it might be that they couldn't figure out how to prevent things like engines generating thrust through the fairings in real time. I could live with that not changing, but it would be nice if the game at least checked properly if the shielded flag should still apply.

[322997am]

1 hour ago, Red Iron Crown said:

That's a horrible way to do a poll, there's nothing preventing people from voting multiple times (I just voted three times to check).

I'm an idiot I left that. I'll redo it.

[322997am]

This is the new form.

[Pthigrivi]

So here's the thing. I don't even disagree with main point of this thread, but as has been pointed out, Squad knows. Some of it's a bug, some is flexibility and play preference, Im sure they'll sort it out in time. There does seem at times that a general atmosphere of antipathy bubbles over on this board. There's such a thing as a squeaky wheel, but there's also such a thing as crying wolf. If people go apoplectic over every little thing from cactuses to barn art to starting throttle how are the dev's to discern a real problem from something trivial?

More than that though, I really do hope even when something is frustrating that we remember that Squad isn't Microsoft. They are a very small indie game company doing fairly heroic work on a pretty unique game. They have a lot going on, and some things might take longer to bear fruit than some might wish. I just feel like the most helpful thing is to bring up and discuss issues thoughtfully and respectfully, thats all.

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, Pthigrivi said:

So here's the thing. I don't even disagree with main point of this thread, but as has been pointed out, Squad knows. Some of it's a bug, some is flexibility and play preference, Im sure they'll sort it out in time. There does seem at times that a general atmosphere of antipathy bubbles over on this board. There's such a thing as a squeaky wheel, but there's also such a thing as crying wolf. If people go apoplectic over every little thing from cactuses to barn art to starting throttle how are the dev's to discern a real problem from something trivial?

More than that though, I really do hope even when something is frustrating that we remember that Squad isn't Microsoft. They are a very small indie game company doing fairly heroic work on a pretty unique game. They have a lot going on, and some things might take longer to bear fruit than some might wish. I just feel like the most helpful thing is to bring up and discuss issues thoughtfully and respectfully, thats all.

I completely agree with this. In my snarkier moments I've thought about starting a "Remove the terrible word "terrible" from your post titles" thread.

[AlamoVampire]

4 hours ago, maccollo said:

Well, at least I think the devs know about it, because they retweeted it: https://twitter.com/kerbalspacep/status/681521349727285249
Anyway, this seems like something that go against squads usual principle, so I think it might be that they couldn't figure out how to prevent things like engines generating thrust through the fairings in real time. I could live with that not changing, but it would be nice if the game at least checked properly if the shielded flag should still apply.

that worries me even more then. i myself have yet to lose a mission to this well, lets face it, anti-kerbal feature. But, as has been pointed out time and time and time again, clear examples of how it limits building <realistic soyuz missions, apollo style shroud still there but the engines clearly ignite then dump the shroud> to how it has COST people missions, as is in the link in the quote here and the link to the thread a few above that or so. Look, lets face facts here, it is abundantly clear most if not all of us want this mechanic gone. it has no benefit only costs.