Suggestion, No planet info before you have been there

[Peder]

Hello.

Did you ever wonder how the kerbals where able to know all science facts about planets such as gravity they never visited ?

Well I did.

There for I would like to suggest that before a planet/moon have been visited by a spacecraft then I think the information panel of planet/moon should contain less information.

For example to get information about gravity then I think it would be kind of logical that a spacecraft had to do a little science when doing a flyby or an orbit to unlock such information.

What do you guys think ?

Edited March 24, 2016 by Peder

[Stoney3K]

I think the information about a planet you have never visited should be limited, but it should be there. Kerbals can look at the sky and get a rough number on planet data simply from telescope readings.

After all, if you know nothing about a planet's orbit or its gravity, how are you going to send a probe to it so that it reaches orbit? Just hurl it straight at the planet from LKO and hope it catches a gravity well?

[Capt Snuggler]

This has been brought up before (link below). Good to know people still think this way.

I always thought the planets surface should be pixcelated. "this is the best image we have right now".

You would need to get closer to sharpen the image with either a camera equiped probe or a kerbal snapping pics through the window of the pod.

Better mapping equipment could enhance the image further with more layers (elevation, resources, surface temp, gradient, anomalies).

no random surface. every player has the same planet. yeah you could download a map (cheat) but so what...

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

[Majorjim!]

Just now, Capt Snuggler said:

This has been brought up before (link below). Good to know people still think this way.

I always thought the planets surface should be pixcelated. "this is the best image we have right now".

You would need to get closer to sharpen the image with either a camera equiped probe or a kerbal snapping pics through the window of the pod.

Better mapping equipment could enhance the image further with more layers (elevation, resources, surface temp, gradient, anomalies).

no random surface. every player has the same planet. yeah you could download a map (cheat) but so what...

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

Totally agree with this mate. It would add a nice bit of detail, discovery and realism.

[Snikersnee]

I like the idea of sending small probes and rovers to a planet before sending kerbals or whatever. Although I think it would be waay too easy to just look up the info or download a mod to bypass it. Kerbals, from my experience, are not very good with the honor code.

[JayCheetah]

I would really want this to happen. I could also understand that some people won't. Make it optional, so both sides win

[NerdCrisis]

Of course the info should be visible. 

Irl we don't need probes or manned missions to every celestial just to figure out their gravity and if they have atmosphere.

[_stilgar_]

10 minutes ago, NerdCrisis said:

Irl we don't need probes or manned missions to every celestial just to figure out their gravity and if they have atmosphere.

We can even figure out the chemical composition of the atmospheres not only for planets in our solar system, but also for planets orbiting other stars! 

[Capt Snuggler]

2 hours ago, Snikersnee said:

I like the idea of sending small probes and rovers to a planet before sending kerbals or whatever. Although I think it would be waay too easy to just look up the info or download a mod to bypass it. Kerbals, from my experience, are not very good with the honor code.

so what. if people want to bypass it or download a map, good for them. its their game. people can alt+F12 and get infinite fuel too, again who cares?

47 minutes ago, _stilgar_ said:

We can even figure out the chemical composition of the atmospheres not only for planets in our solar system, but also for planets orbiting other stars! 

yeah but we are a bit higher up the tech-tree. We have launched countless probes and put sufficient tools in place to achieve this.

seems only fair the kerbals should get to as well.

 

*edit: maybe the suggestion should be "LESS planet info before you have been there"

Edited March 24, 2016 by Capt Snuggler

[HebaruSan]

There's a mod that does something similar. Might be worth trying to see if you like the gameplay.

I believe it's compatible with the telescopes from this mod as well.

 

[Hodari]

1 hour ago, NerdCrisis said:

Of course the info should be visible. 

Irl we don't need probes or manned missions to every celestial just to figure out their gravity and if they have atmosphere.

I'd say SOME info should be visible, but not all.   We might have a rough estimate for the mass of a planet, but landing on it or even just a fly-by would give a much more accurate number.  We might know that a planet HAS an atmosphere and even what the main components of it are, but landing there would give more details about how thick that atmosphere is at varying altitudes and what trace gases are there(Great, the planet has ~75% nitrogen and ~25% oxygen, but if there's also cyanide in it, we might want to know before a manned mission.)

[JayCheetah]

2 hours ago, NerdCrisis said:

Irl we don't need probes or manned missions to every celestial just to figure out their gravity and if they have atmosphere.

I hope you realize that KSP is not real life.
The main reason for me to have the information not visible, is the extra content it will offer.
Sadly you're basically saying no to extra content, whether optional or not.

Ground and or space based telescopes can offer decent initial data, but only by sending probes/rovers scientist can have a better understanding.

 

 

[pandaman]

I'd certainly be in favour of having basic info available at the start like mass, orbit, and some atmospheric data.  With greater detail needing to be discovered, particularly surface details etc. As that's one thing that can only be verified by getting up close and personal. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JayCheetah said:

The main reason for me to have the information not visible, is the extra content it will offer.

Once.  Then you'll start a new save.

I've expressed my thoughts on this in the previous thread by @Capt Snuggler so I see no need to reiterate further than: It's a good idea provided it doesn't prevent the things we can (and expect that we can) already do, such as perform a transfer burn and enter orbit.

Edited March 24, 2016 by regex

[NerdCrisis]

 

1 hour ago, JayCheetah said:

I hope you realize that KSP is not real life.
The main reason for me to have the information not visible, is the extra content it will offer.
Sadly you're basically saying no to extra content, whether optional or not.

Ground and or space based telescopes can offer decent initial data, but only by sending probes/rovers scientist can have a better understanding.

 

 

The stock information the game provides about planets is really basic and the only things that really matter are gravity and atmo height. 

I don't see how hiding those two information will make your gameplay experience somehow better.

Op's post and reasoning asserts flawed realism. Ask him about real life.

And since when hiding content is considered extra content?

Edited March 24, 2016 by NerdCrisis

[OhioBob]

19 hours ago, Peder said:

Hello.

Did you ever wonder how the kerbals where able to know all science facts about planets such as gravity they never visited ?

Last year I wrote essay giving my interpretation of the state of astronomical knowledge that should exist at the start of the game.

Kerbal Astronomy 101
 

Edited March 25, 2016 by OhioBob

[VaPaL]

I agree, but I think info should be obtained in two ways:

1- Upgrading your Tracking Station and R&D buildings. This would give basic info such as size, gravity, atmosphere... the bigger/closer the body is more and better info, the smaller/further, less and worse info.

2- Sending probes/rovers/kerbals there. This would give all the precise info that you can get with it. Topology, composition, size, mass, gravity, atmosphere composicion, pressure, etc.

This features could be turned on/off manually or by default depending on the chosen difficulty.

[Trann]

In the early days, I would send Kerbals to Mun without knowing what was there and I'd have to eyeball a level landing zone.  Some of those did not end well.  These days, I enjoy sending RADAR, biome, and other sats well in advance so I can plan my arrivals with more certainty (and safety!)  Granted, the information is out there and I have much of it in my head already, but I do it for every new save game and with every new version and release.  The methodology feels right to me.

And fun.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Trann

[Hodari]

1 hour ago, NerdCrisis said:

 

The stock information the game provides about planets is really basic and the only things that really matter are gravity and atmo height. 

I don't see how hiding those two information will make your gameplay experience somehow better.

By itself, just hiding info wouldn't affect gameplay much, though it might allow for better role-playing for people who are into that sort of thing.

It would make far more sense though if other stuff was added along with it though.  For example, encounter info shown in the tracking station could be slightly off until you perform an actual fly-by of the planet.  EVA's on a planet or in its atmosphere could be prohibited until you've sent a probe to do an atmospheric analysis(need to make sure your space suit will be able to handle it).  A pressure scan from within the atmosphere would allow parachutes to be set for the proper deployment height/speed.  And entirely new features could also be added that would depend on you having certain knowledge about the world you are trying to land on.  If they want to prevent people from simply being able to look up the relevant data, some of these values could also be randomized for each new game.

So yeah, by itself, it doesn't add much, but it does open up a lot of options.

[JayCheetah]

3 hours ago, regex said:

Once.  Then you'll start a new save.

I've expressed my thoughts on this in the previous thread by @Capt Snuggler so I see no need to reiterate further than: It's a good idea provided it doesn't prevent the things we can (and expect that we can) already do, such as perform a transfer burn and enter orbit.

Hence the fact that I mentioned twice it should be optional.

3 hours ago, NerdCrisis said:

I don't see how hiding those two information will make your gameplay experience somehow better.

Op's post and reasoning asserts flawed realism. Ask him about real life.

And since when hiding content is considered extra content?

Because it allows the player to 'discover' this content. You may be surprises how many people kind of role play in ksp.
many people, me included like to sent probes with a real purpose and/or sending probes with a single science experiment to make it all a bit more engaging.

I do not really care about the OP's reasoning. I am here to give my own opinion.
In case of the information provided about the celestial bodies in the Kerbol system, I think it could tuned down a lot and let the players have the choice whether they want that.

Since 0.25 we already have hidden content, with the different biomes.

Edited March 24, 2016 by JayCheetah
added extra quote.

[Waxing_Kibbous]

I think that if the planets were random per save/career then using science gear to retrieve data about them would be a great idea, as it stands though once you go to a planet once you know the deal. Which isn't exactly a bad thing, and there are no plans for random bodies anyway. It would be cool if a mod maker had a mod which would insert x number of mystery planets into the system though, that could make for some fun exploration.

[hurric]

I voted (no) .... you should go the same route as every other sentient life form .... send a probe

[RocketSquid]

I think that this should be implemented as a difficulty setting. If somebody wants to play sandbox, and test out weird craft designs, they should be allowed to know the details of the planets without having to send probes. If someone wants a reasonably realistic career, where they do have to send probes, they should be able to get it.

[Snikersnee]

3 hours ago, RocketSquid said:

...If somebody wants to play sandbox, and test out weird craft designs, they should be allowed to know the details of the planets...  If someone wants a reasonably realistic career, where they do have to send probes, they should be able to get it.

Exactly my thoughts

[Palaceviking]

On 24/03/2016 at 3:02 PM, _stilgar_ said:

We can even figure out the chemical composition of the atmospheres not only for planets in our solar system, but also for planets orbiting other stars! 

Before or after we did manned space flight and learned so much? 

I'm not being sarcastic,  just wondering if anyone really knows.