Next generation thermometer bearing/hinge 1.1 compatable

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

Ok so these are those weird propeller physics I was talking about. It seems that the blades will get lift when traveling up, but not when traveling down.  This one above has the blades backwards and is thus acting as a weirdly shaped pusher prop, but it does the same on a puller with less weirdly shaped blades. Anyone have any ideas why this happens? Because if I could get thrust on the other half of the propeller disc I'm confident I could make a plane fly with it.

 

Also been trying to use decorative propellers on planes. They always seem to eventually spin at some absurd rate and then wrench themselves out of the hinge.

 

Edit: I will share the mini prop motor soon I think

Edit 2: Apparently, if the propeller is oriented so that its axis is vertical, all blades can get lift simultaneously. Maybe helicopters are more viable than planes?

Edit 3: I got a tiny probe heli to fly using the thermohinge motor... for 20 seconds before the rotor broke loose and abandoned me as I fell to the ground and exploded

Edit 4: I have something fun for tomorrow

Edited May 30, 2016 by EpicSpaceTroll139
The fun thing has been added

[He_162]

On 5/26/2016 at 6:20 PM, Majorjim said:

Why what happened?

New PC, old one's processor overheated (an old Pentium G that I was going to overclock and sell) and then it shut down, and the computer wouldn't start, and the hard drive wouldn't load in any other PC I had.

[Majorjim!]

4 hours ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

Anyone have any ideas why this happens?

No idea man.. That is odd. Broken physics?

 Keep trying to refine the hinge. It may just be that it's not strong enough for that kind of use but it's worth trying a few more iterations.

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

After literally two days of redesign and tweaking, I present a revolution in stock tiny helicopter technology!

It has enough fuel for about 5 minutes, but hey! It works!     I found that I could get increased rotor torque and speed by widening the turbine, and that it was actually the speed that was making the rotors come off. So, I just added more rotor blades and got more lift at lower rpm! Doubling the rotors helped to eliminate the torque, while also allowing me to get rid of dead-weight anti-torque measures! Without the thermohinge this tiny contraption would not have been possible! Thank you Majorjim!     Also Azimech are you seeing this? Propellers aren't dead yet!

Heli

Mini-Motor

Edited May 30, 2016 by EpicSpaceTroll139

[Majorjim!]

Just now, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

I present a revolution in stock tiny helicopter technology!

Damn dude! What can I say... It's so beautiful! 

 I wait with bated breath for the dl link! I am so happy to see that the thermo hinge has the potential for tiny helicopters! I see what you did by making the entire rotor shaft out of many hinges, what a fantastic idea man.

 This is exactly what I hoped my invention would be used for, pushed to the limits of creativity and with stock parts no less!

You sir are my hero!

And yup, @Azimech look at this thing!

 

Edited May 30, 2016 by Majorjim

[Azimech]

25 minutes ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

After literally two days of redesign and tweaking, I present a revolution in stock tiny helicopter technology!

It has enough fuel for about 5 minutes, but hey! It works!     I found that I could get increased rotor torque and speed by widening the turbine, and that it was actually the speed that was making the rotors come off. So, I just added more rotor blades and got more lift at lower rpm! Doubling the rotors helped to eliminate the torque, while also allowing me to get rid of dead-weight anti-torque measures! Without the thermohinge this tiny contraption would not have been possible! Thank you Majorjim!     Also Azimech are you seeing this? Propellers aren't dead yet!

Heli

Will add craft file link to the heli and original mini motor momentarily!

Good job! And propellers aren't dead for sure, I've been waiting for more than a year for someone to beat my turboprop speed record :-)

Finally some more people are following the coaxial example!

I'm going to add this one to the stock turboprop/turboshaft hangar on KerbalX, you deserve it!

On 28-5-2016 at 3:14 AM, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

Ok so these are those weird propeller physics I was talking about. It seems that the blades will get lift when traveling up, but not when traveling down.  This one above has the blades backwards and is thus acting as a weirdly shaped pusher prop, but it does the same on a puller with less weirdly shaped blades. Anyone have any ideas why this happens? Because if I could get thrust on the other half of the propeller disc I'm confident I could make a plane fly with it.

 

Also been trying to use decorative propellers on planes. They always seem to eventually spin at some absurd rate and then wrench themselves out of the hinge.

 

Edit: I will share the mini prop motor soon I think

Edit 2: Apparently, if the propeller is oriented so that its axis is vertical, all blades can get lift simultaneously. Maybe helicopters are more viable than planes?

Edit 3: I got a tiny probe heli to fly using the thermohinge motor... for 20 seconds before the rotor broke loose and abandoned me as I fell to the ground and exploded

Edit 4: I have something fun for tomorrow

Ah, now I see this post. Download my Curious Chakora and see how the propeller operates on that one, might give you an insight.

https://kerbalx.com/Azimech/77I-Azi11-Curious-Chakora-v2

[Majorjim!]

1 hour ago, Azimech said:

Ah, now I see this post. Download my Curious Chakora and see how the propeller operates on that one, might give you an insight.

He may have solved that issue with the helicopter hinge design, not sure though.

 @EpicSpaceTroll139 You should give your chopper its own thread! It deserves it!

[Redshift OTF]

Yeah, definitely give that heli its own thread! I will DL it and give it a spin.

[Majorjim!]

Just now, Redshift OTF said:

a spin

See what you did there.

[Azimech]

43 minutes ago, Majorjim said:

He may have solved that issue with the helicopter hinge design, not sure though.

 @EpicSpaceTroll139 You should give your chopper its own thread! It deserves it!

It's a known thing with stock propellers, one could argue it's a miracle they even work because lifting surfaces were never meant to produce lift while rotating in this aero model. But ... proper design will result in proper results.

[Gman_builder]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 7:41 PM, Majorjim said:

Good stuff man!

 

 

My hinge design already takes this into account. The hinge is blocked at one end by another thermometer. This is a very important part of the design to keep it operating reliably.

 I think you may see some issues when you add a rotating weight onto the hinge. And in order to create enough lift you need to be spinning very fast indeed and there is a built in rotation limit in KSP. Stock 'turboprops' or wash 'water wheels' as I like to call them are effectively dead. You need ot mod the game to get much useful work from them.

I just built a stock turboprop that does 224 m/s. With stock aero it probably does 150-160 making still the fastest in game. They are not dead. However I do agree that changing the physics is effectively modding the game. I think squad should remover the RPM limiter entirely.

[Majorjim!]

8 minutes ago, Gman_builder said:

I just built a stock turboprop that does 224 m/s. With stock aero it probably does 150-160 making still the fastest in game. They are not dead. However I do agree that changing the physics is effectively modding the game. I think squad should remover the RPM limiter entirely.

Agreed not really dead but kinda useless in stock aero at the moment. You should test yours in stock to get an exact figure though man. It might be great!

Edited June 15, 2016 by Majorjim

[Spacepigu]

Alright, I think i've done it in terms of tiny helicopters...

I present:

The Mythbreaker!

Based off of the mythbusters helipack, it can fly!

Mind you, it is still in heavy dev, and can't fly without infinite fuel...

but it flies on propellers alone!

and it uses your great bearing, majorjim!

it's surprising how well it works...

Just ask if you want the file, although i did make some changes, attempting to make it work off of fuel but it didn't work :/

Most of the craft is still there and usable though, so feel free to tinker with it.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Spacepigu

[HafCoJoe]

1 hour ago, Spacepigu said:

Alright, I think i've done it in terms of tiny helicopters...

I present:

The Mythbreaker!

Based off of the mythbusters helipack, it can fly!

Mind you, it is still in heavy dev, and can't fly without infinite fuel...

but it flies on propellers alone!

and it uses your great bearing, majorjim!

it's surprising how well it works...

Just ask if you want the file, although i did make some changes, attempting to make it work off of fuel but it didn't work :/

Most of the craft is still there and usable though, so feel free to tinker with it.

Dude... that's amazing! I'd love to tinker with your hinge and craft file if that's ok with you... that's phenomenal man...

[Majorjim!]

3 hours ago, Spacepigu said:

and it uses your great bearing, majorjim!

it's surprising how well it works...

Just ask if you want the file, although i did make some changes, attempting to make it work off of fuel but it didn't work :/

Most of the craft is still there and usable though, so feel free to tinker with it.

NIce work man, I love Seeing people using my hinge for stuff like this!

 

1 hour ago, Avera9eJoe said:

I'd love to tinker with your hinge

Yes you may of course tinker with it!

Edited August 9, 2016 by Majorjim!

[HafCoJoe]

1 minute ago, Majorjim! said:

Yes you may of course tinker with it!

I've already done some work with it and it makes a fantastic door hinge  - I'm curious about this new propeller hinge! @Spacepigu do you think you could send me your craft file? I'm curious how you got such a small hinge to stay put with a propeller on it.

- Also on a completely unrelated note, if you haven't seen the movie "Redline" and you're a fan of Speed Racer old school style racing, go watch it now. My mind has been blown.

[Majorjim!]

The hinge is exactly the same me thinks.

 In the door hinge application you need a stopper part which is just another thermometer or another small part. It is the same thing, the design is the same.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Majorjim!

[Spacepigu]

Just a note, i did modify it to try and make it fuel powered..

it didn't end well :/

I'll unmodify it and send it over!

I do think though that these bearings will open up the stage for some propeller powered stuff, seeing as they are surprisingly good at keeping propellers stable...

-Edit-

Here it is:

Click here

keep the throttle at half when launching, otherwise the propellers will break... :/

it's also pretty much impossible to control so be aware of that.

Other than that, just get the kerbal in the seat and press space twice!

Edited August 9, 2016 by Spacepigu

[Majorjim!]

52 minutes ago, Spacepigu said:

Just a note, i did modify it to try and make it fuel powered..

it didn't end well :/

I'll unmodify it and send it over!

I do think though that these bearings will open up the stage for some propeller powered stuff, seeing as they are surprisingly good at keeping propellers stable...

-Edit-

Here it is:

Click here

keep the throttle at half when launching, otherwise the propellers will break... :/

it's also pretty much impossible to control so be aware of that.

Other than that, just get the kerbal in the seat and press space twice!

Definitely! Someone has made one already, a turbo prop from my hinge! He used a stack of cages around a long central shaft that seems to hav made it quite strong.  Considering I designed the hinge as a door hinge anything else is a bonus! 

[Spacepigu]

Hey, i need some help with something...

So I wanted to make a cool little biplane, but the problem is, i'm having trouble with the prop :/

it should be working, as in it's using SAS force (much more reliable than a turboprop), but all i can get is ~10 m/s. :/

Here's the craft file and some images, and any help would be appreciated!

Link to plane here

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

8 minutes ago, Spacepigu said:

Hey, i need some help with something...

So I wanted to make a cool little biplane, but the problem is, i'm having trouble with the prop :/

it should be working, as in it's using SAS force (much more reliable than a turboprop), but all i can get is ~10 m/s. :/

Are you increasing the pitch of the blades as the plane accelerates? Without doing that it will never get any significant speed. 

Edited August 12, 2016 by EpicSpaceTroll139

[Spacepigu]

26 minutes ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

Are you increasing the pitch of the blades as the plane accelerates? Without doing that it will never get any significant speed. 

Any suggestions as to how to do that?

[Jon144]

1 hour ago, Spacepigu said:

Any suggestions as to how to do that?

You will need far more power than just SAS force especially with something so small. And I would advise decreasing rotor angle to allow for more RPMs. Stock physics usually dictate that lower pitch blades and props will be better performing since they have less drag.

[Spacepigu]

Gotcha, thanks!

I'll tell you how it goes!

so far, it seems as though this might be a breakthrough for tiny propeller planes everywhere 

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

6 hours ago, Jon144 said:

You will need far more power than just SAS force especially with something so small. And I would advise decreasing rotor angle to allow for more RPMs. Stock physics usually dictate that lower pitch blades and props will be better performing since they have less drag.

The low pitch blades may be true for helicopters, but planes need higher pitch to get any significant speed. Also, I have a plane or 2 that flies on SAS power.

7 hours ago, Spacepigu said:

Any suggestions as to how to do that?

If there is a probe core and sufficient electricity on your propeller shaft, you can use the [ ] keys to switch to it and rightclick the blades to adjust their flap deflection/deployed settings.