[ASC-III] Air Superiority Challenge - King of the Hill (BDArmory 4v4 AI Duels: WW1 Theme) - Now Concluded!

[Dman979]

20 minutes ago, ScriptKitt3h said:

The Valkyries cometh...

Scratch two Fighter Papas in testing (one mutually destroyed alongside one of the two Valks, the other destroyed in the above pics). This new design's not going to be replacing or serving as an upgrade to the Talons just yet (I'd like for the battle with them to happen first!), but I think it's even better than those, and my Talon fighters are some of my favorites out of all my designs. This new one though... it just feels right.

EDIT: I also still need to do some testing with these new fighters, as I'm suspicious I can make them equally as effective with less missiles (due to the twin vulcans and laser), but I'll need to run some personal tests on various loadouts first. In the meantime, my Talons are ready and capable of challenging the King.

Well, those are some cool pics. What have you done to improve the on the Talon designs?

Also, my first entry is now online- the Part Clipper-11000! No pics, I'm afraid that you'll have to fight it to get an idea of how it handles.

[ScriptKitt3h]

16 minutes ago, Dman979 said:

Well, those are some cool pics. What have you done to improve the on the Talon designs?

Also, my first entry is now online- the Part Clipper-11000! No pics, I'm afraid that you'll have to fight it to get an idea of how it handles.

I buffed the propulsion systems (the originals used 4x panther engines arranged to appear like two nozzles, I upped it to 6x in the style of two nozzles, AKA "turbine improvements" :P), altered the outer wing arrangement somewhat near the rear of the airframe to provide higher maneuverability, added canards for improved pitch and roll authority, added more onboard fuel storage, and heavily improved the aesthetics by making sure it stayed sleek and aggressive even after the buffing out of its systems. With these improvements, the stock version easily achieves true supercruise on dry mode alone, while the BD version likely can do the same with a lighter loadout (though it definitely can break mach 1 on afterburners with the BD version).

Edited April 7, 2016 by ScriptKitt3h

[Dman979]

2 minutes ago, ScriptKitt3h said:

I buffed the propulsion systems (the originals used 4x panther engines arranged to appear like two nozzles, I upped it to 6x in the style of two nozzles, AKA "turbine improvements" :P), altered the outer wing arrangement somewhat near the rear of the airframe to provide higher maneuverability, added canards for improved pitch and roll authority, added more onboard fuel storage, and heavily improved the aesthetics by making sure it stayed sleek and aggressive even after the buffing out of its systems. With these improvements, the stock version easily achieves true supercruise on dry mode alone, while the BD version likely can do the same with a lighter loadout (though it definitely can break mach 1 on afterburners with the BD version).

Well, Dayum! that looks pretty.

Six engines, you say? Might have to replace the Part Clipper-11000 with the Part Clipper 11200!
Without any of her mounting points (i.e. jammers, radar, all hardpoints and missiles, counter-measures, etc.) I could probably do supercruise, too- but NOT with all that equipment. Most of it's designed to be launched at the beginning of the fight, so things get better from there. I'm pretty happy that I was able to keep my COM from moving a significant amount throughout all flight phases- takeoff to weapons dry to fuel dry. It's probably one of my best (albeit ugliest) planes so far.

[ScriptKitt3h]

2 minutes ago, Dman979 said:

Well, Dayum! that looks pretty.

Six engines, you say? Might have to replace the Part Clipper-11000 with the Part Clipper 11200!
Without any of her mounting points (i.e. jammers, radar, all hardpoints and missiles, counter-measures, etc.) I could probably do supercruise, too- but NOT with all that equipment. Most of it's designed to be launched at the beginning of the fight, so things get better from there. I'm pretty happy that I was able to keep my COM from moving a significant amount throughout all flight phases- takeoff to weapons dry to fuel dry. It's probably one of my best (albeit ugliest) planes so far.

I primarily clip my engines since I like having my craft perform somewhat similarly to what my idea of them IRL would be like- so if two panthers won't cut it for supercruise, then 4 it is! (or six, in this case)

I'd say to not overload too much on missiles, since after the initial salvo of AMRAAMs or AIM-9s at the start, most dogfights degrade into gun battles (I use a laser, of course) and/or sporadic missile attacks. More often than not, you'll be left flying out after a win with half or more of your ordnance left onboard- it's all about balancing your plane's "skillset" of sorts with its loadout.

[Dman979]

Just now, ScriptKitt3h said:

I primarily clip my engines since I like having my craft perform somewhat similarly to what my idea of them IRL would be like- so if two panthers won't cut it for supercruise, then 4 it is! (or six, in this case)

I'd say to not overload too much on missiles, since after the initial salvo of AMRAAMs or AIM-9s at the start, most dogfights degrade into gun battles (I use a laser, of course) and/or sporadic missile attacks. More often than not, you'll be left flying out after a win with half or more of your ordnance left onboard- it's all about balancing your plane's "skillset" of sorts with its loadout.

Well, I've told my planes to fire 6 missiles per target. They have 18 available. I should probably cut that down some, but we'll see how it goes. I've gotten to the point where I'm consistently beating your craft, though.

I clip engines for pure power.

[ScriptKitt3h]

14 minutes ago, Dman979 said:

Well, I've told my planes to fire 6 missiles per target. They have 18 available. I should probably cut that down some, but we'll see how it goes. I've gotten to the point where I'm consistently beating your craft, though.

I clip engines for pure power.

Remember, it's 2v2. Gotta conserve ammo at some point.

[Dman979]

3 minutes ago, ScriptKitt3h said:

Remember, it's 2v2. Gotta conserve ammo at some point.

What? Why? This is still Kerbal Space Program- Overengineer or you're doing it wrong!

[Guggy13]

2 hours ago, inigma said:

These are made in 1.1.  ASC currently works in KSP 1.0.5. Can you rebuild these in KSP 1.0.5?

Sorry about that. I switched back to the 1.0.5 version but the game tells me, "there are incompatible/invalid saves on your saves folder" when I click on resume saved. I haven't touched the saves folder at all. Anyone know how to fix this?

 

Edited April 7, 2016 by Guggy13

[inigma]

Well, in testing, my son managed to dominate my Fighter Papa-1, in three test rounds no less... wow. Impressive. I'll add his craft to the roster asap.

I have discovered several things in testing and in reviewing matches so far recorded.

- AI can't handle turrets hardly - at the expense of it bugging and not able to use your canons. So, use turrets at your own risk.

- ECM appears broken. AI never engages it. @BahamutoD is this a bug? Which is why in testing radar guided missiles are lethal - only sometimes chasing after chaff, currently making things such a missile fight unnecessarily. So... to activate ECM for your craft, you will need to activate ECM in the craft file for now before you submit it to the roster, so it will stay active during the fight. For those on the current roster, I will manually do this to your craft file to make matches fair - and only if your craft has ECM installed.

I also updated OP rules to allow certain permitted changes between matches to keep things unpredictable.

ASC champion may only make AI and weapons manager changes between matches to tweak and hone their craft to prepare for upcoming challengers. No other part changes are permitted. It is recommended that you test your designs using a variety of enemy AI and weapon module configs.

All challengers are permitted to make any changes to their craft (I've already been permitting this since day 1) before their match against the ASC champion.

Once craft are engaged in a match, no changes (obviously) are permitted.

21 minutes ago, Guggy13 said:

Sorry about that. I switched back to the 1.0.5 version but the game tells me, "there are incompatible/invalid saves on your saves folder" when I click on resume saved. I haven't touched the saves folder at all. Anyone know how to fix this?

 

oy.  not sure.  recommend quick rebuild.

[drtricky]

9 minutes ago, inigma said:

- ECM appears broken. AI never engages it

When you mean ECM, do you mean jammers? Because you do indeed have to turn them on manually every round, either by right clicking, or by a hotkey.

If you're referring to chaff, then I don't know what you're talking about. Chaff works perfectly fine for me.

[Dman979]

3 minutes ago, drtricky said:

When you mean ECM, do you mean jammers? Because you do indeed have to turn them on manually every round, either by right clicking, or by a hotkey.

If you're referring to chaff, then I don't know what you're talking about. Chaff works perfectly fine for me.

He means jammers. I've noticed that, too.

[drtricky]

Question: Will you be flying our planes over to airbase island, and then starting, or will you be using a tool to move them without using any fuel?

[SuicidalInsanity]

An interesting challenge. I might submit an entry in a day or two. With the rules as written, however, I do have to ask if the submitted fighter needs to be, well, fighter shaped, or are we allowed to do silly things like this?

Spoiler

Yes, this thing flies. Somehow.

 

[drtricky]

18 minutes ago, SuicidalInsanity said:

An interesting challenge. I might submit an entry in a day or two. With the rules as written, however, I do have to ask if the submitted fighter needs to be, well, fighter shaped, or are we allowed to do silly things like this?

There seems to be no restrictions on shape, although I will warn you that radiators no longer work as armor in the newest version of BDA (from personal testing). I think metal plates now fulfill that purpose (makes sense, except for the weight part).

Edited April 7, 2016 by drtricky

[Guggy13]

6 hours ago, inigma said:

These are made in 1.1.  ASC currently works in KSP 1.0.5. Can you rebuild these in KSP 1.0.5?

I started a new save file and recreated the fighter in 1.0.5. Hopefully this works. Sorry for the confusion. I look forward to kicking you off the hill @inigma 

X-38F Interceptor

 

[inigma]

8 hours ago, drtricky said:

Question: Will you be flying our planes over to airbase island, and then starting, or will you be using a tool to move them without using any fuel?

HyperEdited over or VesselMover over. no fuel.

8 hours ago, SuicidalInsanity said:

An interesting challenge. I might submit an entry in a day or two. With the rules as written, however, I do have to ask if the submitted fighter needs to be, well, fighter shaped, or are we allowed to do silly things like this?

  Reveal hidden contents

Yes, this thing flies. Somehow.

 

Unconventional is just fine. Just has to fly.

6 hours ago, Guggy13 said:

I started a new save file and recreated the fighter in 1.0.5. Hopefully this works. Sorry for the confusion. I look forward to kicking you off the hill @inigma 

X-38F Interceptor

 

Good... cause @Redshift OTF's Stealth Weasel, who is slotted after you, was really giving me a headache last night no matter what AI configuration I tried against his planes.  

[Dman979]

12 minutes ago, inigma said:

Good... cause @Redshift OTF's Stealth Weasel, who is slotted after you, was really giving me a headache last night no matter what AI configuration I tried against his planes.  

Uh, what? You're changing your control modules around in response to other challengers? Isn't that against the rules?
Also, who won?

[inigma]

1 hour ago, Dman979 said:

Uh, what? You're changing your control modules around in response to other challengers? Isn't that against the rules?
Also, who won?

AI and weapons manager changes between matches are permitted to the King. No part changes permitted though. All challengers on roster may make any changes they wish before a match. 

Edit: Redshift dodged every single missile and blasted both my planes in the first test. Subsequent tests were bugged (his planes smacked into each other before match start), a fourth test revealed that ECM was not working on both my planes since BDA does not enable them by default. Fifth test had ECM enabled and again he blasted both my planes but only after shooting down his own craft in the crossfire. I still think there is a bug going on since aim 120s seem to spawn right on top of a target sometimes ad in that test. I'm just trying to eliminate the bugs so I can record a fair fight (and lose). I'm afraid he will still win hands down.  His planes are that good. I've noticed that spawning with Vessel Mover also bugs planes.

Edited April 7, 2016 by inigma

[gag09]

When is the next match?

[inigma]

1 minute ago, gag09 said:

When is the next match?

Tonight. Was waiting for you.

[gag09]

Anything else you need besides the craft file?

[inigma]

 

Just now, gag09 said:

Anything else you need besides the craft file?

We're good!

[drtricky]

12 hours ago, inigma said:

ECM was not working on both my planes since BDA does not enable them by default. Fifth test had ECM enabled and again he blasted both my planes but only after shooting down his own craft in the crossfire.

I find that even if I mount six jammers onto my own massive fighter, it is still relatively easy for other fighters and radar-guided missiles to lock onto my aircraft. Do jammers work for smaller aircraft like yours?

And I fought Redshift's aircraft too. I had to adapt my fighter as a result because that plane is a pretty damn good radar-based fighter. Hell, my Goalkeepers were having a hard time hitting his fighter, and it was not fazed by the gunfire either! 

Here's the newest iteration of my fighter: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz8ksGB7j0xmdmIzVFFZVVZVa00/view?usp=sharing (OUTDATED)

A lot of changes have been made to it, but I'd figure the only important one you need to know is that its part count has been increased to 111, up 5 parts from 106. And yes, it can still take off from a runway half the size of Airbase island's runway.

Edited April 8, 2016 by drtricky

[inigma]

45 minutes ago, drtricky said:

I find that even if I mount six jammers onto my own massive fighter, it is still relatively easy for other fighters and radar-guided missiles to lock onto my aircraft. Do jammers work for smaller aircraft like yours?

I got it to work in a small fighter fight, but its not predictable. I am still testing its effectiveness. 

[Redshift OTF]

Wow, thanks for the compliments Inigma! I'm sorry you've had trouble with the plane(s). I haven't seen it hit it's own missile before, although I have seen it rarely on some other planes I made. As for planes hitting each other during the take off phase, it's not something I have seen but then I park the planes just off the KSC runway and they have at least a planes width between them, maybe 2. If you have them next to each other on the Island Runway it may be a bit narrow as the AI doesn't separate the planes much during the setup phase of the automatic tourney mode. I guess it would be worse for bigger planes. Not sure how you can solve this. :/ Maybe @BahamutoD could tweak this a little in a future update.

Anyway, I am excited to see what final battle you have managed to record!