[1.3.0] Kerbalism v1.2.9

[ShotgunNinja]

On 11/10/2016 at 1:01 AM, kraden said:

This would basically work like a sample return bay in real life, right?  I really like the way this is sounding.

Yes, that's the objective. I'm thinking of also adding the SampleContainer to lander pods, in addition to the 'Science Container' part. However I think there is a problem in general that require more thinking: how the user will plan fuel requirements if the samples weight?

On 11/10/2016 at 5:34 PM, APlayer said:

Also thanks for mentioning my Profile in the OP

My pleasure, and I'm curious to see what you guys will realize with the new profile system.

On 11/10/2016 at 7:54 PM, SiCaRiO31 said:

are you planning on introducing something like KCT on Kerbalism?

No, sorry, that's not planned.

 

What I'm doing these days: did some number crunching and made all containers store plausible amounts of resources, based on their volume. Some resources are stored pressurized, in liquid form, even if the underlying resource is not the LiquidXXX version of it. All of this turned out to be simpler than I expected: the general formula is 'amount = volume (in m^3) * 1000 * ratio', where ratio is 1 when the resource is stored directly (eg: Food, Water) and 'LiquidDensity/GasDensity' (both in TON/L, as is defined in CRP) when it is stored as a liquid (eg: Oxygen, Nitrogen, Ammonia). The container volumes were calculated from their bounding boxes.

Then I went further and got some real numbers from NASA about resources consumed per-crew and went for these in the Default profile, per-day:

RESOURCE	Kg	Units	Density (Kg/M^3)
Food	1.77	6.29	281.03
Water	2.42	2.42	1000
Oxygen	0.84	595.74	1.41

 

And adapted all waste products for mass conservation. I still need to do the math for the ISRU processes however.

After this, some gameplay experiments followed to fine-tune what the available LifeSupportSystem (LSS) setups in pods are, and when they are unlocked in the tech tree. Turned out that it need some more love, most importantly in the mid game I need a stand-alone part that can be used as a water recycler OR pressure control OR scrubber. And so I copied the MiniISRU, rescaled it, and did some poor retexturing.

It fit nicely in the 1.25 and 2.5 service bays, for apollo-style SMs. I like it.

What else... I added an 'exercise' comfort factor, that can be provided by any parts with a 2-liner module definition. The comfort factors are just strings, so it is easy to add them. The Hitchicker can get a 'trendmill' inside so it provide this exercise comfort.

Concluding, found a really nasty problem with part symmetry and my most complex module, Configure. That is going to keep me busy for a few days at least.

[Nansuchao]

@ShotgunNinja, for the sample's weight, you can do like RL, where the astronauts are allowed to take a fixed amount of rocks/sands. Carrying 100/200 kg of samples will not change the DeltaV "so much", and it's just a new challenge for the player, to plan a few more fuel.

[DJ Reonic]

I can't wait for this mod to be updated. I'm playing 1.2.1 and I miss my missions having a limited window, and along with Orbital Decay, my stations having a lifespan. I've been trying to keep up with this thread, and I probably missed a few posts here and there, so I apologize if this has already been answered, but is there/will there be a wear-and-tear mechanic with the reliability/upgrade system? (If I have a station in orbit for a long time, the solar panels will degrade, and life support will become less efficient, or break down. Eventually, I'd have to repair/replace systems, or just de-orbit the station altogether and send up a new one.)

[ShotgunNinja]

@Nansuchao 200kg on a 1000kg lander are going to have serious consequences for D/v, so the user should ideally have the tools to plan around it. Maybe I can add a toggle in the editor to assume these containers are full/empty, so you can have correct D/v readings in KER and the like.

 

@DJ Reonic There is the reliability system, that is focused on specs degradation, Recently trait/experience requirements were added for repairs. Currently is quite forgiving for the player, as I had an hard time balancing it. In future I want to add critical, non-repairable failures.

[Gotmachine]

@ShotgunNinja So much changes and additions incoming ! Personally, I think I will switch to a custom simplified and more forgiving profile for next release. I love Kerbalism but after using it for a good hundred hours, there are things that bother me : overall, the mod adds too much mass to vessels for the stock engines ISP range, and I want to keep the possibility to have Kerbals out for very long times. I want to make a profile without background radiation (so I only need storm/belt shelters), more forgiving QOL rules and some other tweaks.

What I would like is that when the vessel QOL factor is high enough, "stress" is removed from Kerbals (so with a big enough station/base, I can get "fresh" kerbals). I tried fiddling with the rule degeneration value, but it seems that I can't achieve what I want. Would you please consider adding this possibility the QOL rule ?

[DJ Reonic]

So with the current system, I could leave a station up for a long time and have the solar panels degrade to the point of having power issues like Mir did?

[CloudyMN1979]

Dude. I don't want to criticize but I have to say something. I think your mod is getting way too bloated. Pretty soon it's going to be too much for you to control and it's also not fair to your following. You're making your people wait for the stuff they've come to rely on, so that you can add a bunch of stuff that they don't necessarily want.  So much of it in fact that you'll be crushing bugs for the next year.  I would suggest breaking your features up into modules/minimods like USI does.  You can even collaborate with other modders that way. 

[Gotmachine]

@DJ Reonic Yup, they will degrade, along with reaction wheels, RCS thrusters and other modules. But you can repair them.

@CloudyMN1979 I'm also a bit worried about the planned features inflation but Kerbalism isn't USI, it's a gameplay mechanics mod (very few parts) that add various features based on timewarp-consistent resource usage and consumption. All features are somewhat dependant on each other to offer a more complete gameplay experience, and it seems to me that code-wise, they all are built on the same unique framework. So far, ShotgunNinja has showed a great dedication to his mod and the community and it seems to me that he know what he's doing.

[DJ Reonic]

To tag on to Gotmachine's comment, and because I can't tag on mobile, it seems that most, if not all the features in Kerbalism can be changed with config files. If you don't like a particular feature, make a profile to turn that feature off, or ask nicely, and someone with the proper knowledge and patience may be able to whistle one up for you.

[ShotgunNinja]

2 hours ago, DJ Reonic said:

So with the current system, I could leave a station up for a long time and have the solar panels degrade to the point of having power issues like Mir did?

Yes. Each component has a MTBF (mean-time-between-failures) specified. At some point (between 0 and MTBF*2 seconds) the component will malfunction. When it does, specs are reduced by half. The components can malfunction multiple times, but there is a limit of 2 malfunctions at max so the specs never get below 25%.

How the spec reduction is applied depend on the type of component, and you can see a description of the effect on the part tooltip. For solar panels, it is reduced power output.

[Pak]

Hey @ShotgunNinja

Keep doing your thing. I love what you've done with Kerbalism and I'll love whatever you come up with.

[ShotgunNinja]

4 hours ago, Gotmachine said:

What I would like is that when the vessel QOL factor is high enough, "stress" is removed from Kerbals (so with a big enough station/base, I can get "fresh" kerbals). I tried fiddling with the rule degeneration value, but it seems that I can't achieve what I want. Would you please consider adding this possibility the QOL rule ?

It's because the degeneration is reset only if the rule modifiers evaluate to zero, and in the case of living space that is never the case. I'll see what I can do.

 

@Pak Appreciated

[ShotgunNinja]

Today I did a lot of stuff, and much balancing overall.

 

The ECLSS setups inside manned pods are almost finalized.

 

All ISRU processes have been balanced from the real stuff. Total mass preservation. Some reactions are exothermic now.

 

The crustal and atmospheric harvesters now work by 'abundance threshold': either they produce the resource at specified rate, or they don't produce at all.

 

And I wrote custom planetary resource definitions, based on the awesome data here. Also now I understand what PLANETARY_RESOURCE values do exactly.

 

Last but not least, now the planner show a detailed list of producers/consumers when you hover on a resource panel.

 

[raxo2222]

Is here 1 EC/s one kw?

Wonder how it will go with @FreeThinker Interstellar ISRU stuff

[nosscire]

@ShotgunNinja Loce those screenshots! One thing I love about this mod is just how slick it looks compared to most other mods. Most mods look like they have taken the GUI straight from the 90's, while yours have a nice "modern app" feel

 

Looking awesome mate, I just can't wait! Once this and an official version of KCT releases, it's time to say good bye to my freetime for abit again, cause i'm going to space!

Edited November 14, 2016 by nosscire

[DJ Reonic]

I'm waiting for this, KCT and Orbital Decay, and then I will be quite happy.

[The-Doctor]

On 11/13/2016 at 9:44 PM, ShotgunNinja said:

Today I did a lot of stuff, and much balancing overall.

 

The ECLSS setups inside manned pods are almost finalized.

 

All ISRU processes have been balanced from the real stuff. Total mass preservation. Some reactions are exothermic now.

 

The crustal and atmospheric harvesters now work by 'abundance threshold': either they produce the resource at specified rate, or they don't produce at all.

 

And I wrote custom planetary resource definitions, based on the awesome data here. Also now I understand what PLANETARY_RESOURCE values do exactly.

 

Last but not least, now the planner show a detailed list of producers/consumers when you hover on a resource panel.

 

will the main mod exclude things like hydrazinne and electrolyzer? Most players don't play with real fuels, like myself. I like the simplicity. 

[APlayer]

On 11/14/2016 at 2:44 AM, ShotgunNinja said:

Today I did a lot of stuff, and much balancing overall.

[...]

All ISRU processes have been balanced from the real stuff. Total mass preservation. Some reactions are exothermic now.

 

The crustal and atmospheric harvesters now work by 'abundance threshold': either they produce the resource at specified rate, or they don't produce at all.

[...]

 

I see how you made The Martian style missions possible (CO2 extractor, Sabatier Process). That is totally awesome!

However, I have one wish... Would it be hard to make a flat 2.5 m or 3.75 m ISRU converter? I always found it hard to place the converters in landers without making these insanely tall. It would be nice to have a perhaps weaker, but more lander-friendly part for this.

Or is this the wrong place to suggest that/there already is a mod doing this? If the latter applies, could you add support for it?

Thanks a lot for your awesome work, again, I can't wait to try it!

Edited November 15, 2016 by APlayer
Corrected Typo

[ShotgunNinja]

56 minutes ago, The-Doctor said:

will the main mod exclude things like hydrazinne and electrolyzer? Most players don't play with real fuels, like myself. I like the simplicity. 

There is no hydrazine resource. There is a process that's based on real hydrazine production chemistry, but was stock-ified to produce Monoprop.

Also, I'm adding a 'classic' profile that reproduce the user experience from previous versions, without all the new stuff.

 

19 minutes ago, APlayer said:

I see how you made The Martian style missions possible (CO2 extractor, Sabatier Process). That is totally awesome!

That was my objective with the new ISRU  Speaking of The Martian...

Spoiler

 

20 minutes ago, APlayer said:

However, I have one wish... Would it be hard to make a flat 2.5 m or 3.75 m ISRU converter? I always found it hard to place the converters in landers without making these insanely tall. It would be nice to have a perhaps weaker, but more lander-friendly part for this.

I'm adding a 'chemical plant', that's basically a rescaled and retextured stock ISRU converter. It is quite small, meant to fit inside the 1.25 service bay. It has the same processes as the bigger units, but at reduced rates. It is also unlocked much earlier, so the player can experiment with these processes before the end of tech tree.

Spoiler

 

 

[nascarlaser1]

Is the antenna range and such integrated into stock now that 1.1.2 is out? or will I have to deal with 2 different ranges?

[ShotgunNinja]

Just now, nascarlaser1 said:

Is the antenna range and such integrated into stock now that 1.1.2 is out? or will I have to deal with 2 different ranges?

You certainly will not have to deal with both at the same time. You can enable or disable the Signal system. When it is enabled, I do not allow the user to enable CommNet. When it is disabled, it is up to you to use CommNet, another antenna mod, or nothing at all.

[nascarlaser1]

Just now, ShotgunNinja said:

You certainly will not have to deal with both at the same time. You can enable or disable the Signal system. When it is enabled, I do not allow the user to enable CommNet. When it is disabled, it is up to you to use CommNet, another antenna mod, or nothing at all.

ok thxs. what is commnet? I thought it was kerbnet.

[ShotgunNinja]

@nascarlaser1 CommNet is the stock signal system. KerbNet is the map-viewer/waypoint-manager UI.

[nascarlaser1]

Just now, ShotgunNinja said:

@nascarlaser1 CommNet is the stock signal system. KerbNet is the map-viewer/waypoint-manager UI.

ohhhh ok thxs!

[APlayer]

17 hours ago, ShotgunNinja said:

[...] I'm adding a 'chemical plant', that's basically a rescaled and retextured stock ISRU converter. [...]

You are awesome. There is no other plausible explanation to your behavior.