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[1.4.x-1.8.x] Airplane Plus - R26.4 (Fixed issues/Github is up to date) (Dec 21, 2019)

blackheart612

By blackheart612
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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Lisias

Lisias

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Krazy1 said:

Update: So I did more drop testing and... it's insane. The first couple tests worked. Then it stopped working and could not be fixed. I completely rebuilt the test craft and it still had drag with the doors closed. Same ship, different result. So maybe something on this install is a problem? Some silent exception that breaks only only drag on this part? Maybe reverting to VAB and/or crashing. I don't know. I can't take it... I'm going to bed.

Can you provide us with a minimal craft where you reproduced the problem the last time?

I'm sure you found something, I just didn't managed to zero on it.

I'm digging around not only Forum, but also github and reddit for reports of problems involving Cargo Bays and drag and, indeed, there're some reports blaming Attachment Node Sizes - but not enough details about, so I'm still on the dark.

However… Remembering my own bad experiences with Cargo Bays in the past (good thing I had saved all that backups!), I came to a possible M.O. : the Attachment Nodes Size may be a problem while attaching cargo on themselves inside the Cargo Bay! All my tests until now used only one part inside the Cargo Bay, but now that it's clear that the problem is more complicated than that, we may be facing a insidious problem on the cargo itself, not on the Cargo Bay… Or at least something on the Cargo Bay being triggered by the cargo's Attachment Nodes (instead of the Bay's inner attachment nodes as I had initially thought).

You are not the first one to report such thing: where there's smoke, usually there's fire - or at very least a source of heat.

Edited by Lisias
tyops as usulla...
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Krazy1

Krazy1

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 9/6/2023 at 3:04 PM, Lisias said:

Can you provide us with a minimal craft where you reproduced the problem the last time?

Red pill or blue pill Lisias? I offer only the truth (well in my KSP at least)

Red:

Spoiler

I have a ship from yesterday with a CRG-15 that does not block drag: 

has drag

I built and tested several more versions today and they ALL WORKED. No drag with doors closed. This one appears the same as the first... but the bay blocks drag correctly.

drag is good

I went back and forth testing these two several times and it is repeatable... one works, one broken. Same KSP session. 

But wait, there's more. I made an "extended" version of the broken ship, adding another bay at the bottom and... yep... top one broken, bottom one works.... same ship! 

extended, 1 good, 1 bad

I can't tell you what I did different. Maybe I translated the SEQ parts and then picked them up and dropped them on the node? Maybe I re-rooted it? But I tried those things on another ship today and it worked correctly. 

Just launch them, cheat to 20 km and watch aero data in PAWs. No need to use the chute. Krazyness.

Edited by Krazy1
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Lisias

Lisias

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Krazy1 said:

Red pill or blue pill Lisias? 

I took them both. :sticktongue: Amusing, but gave me a hell of a hang over!!! :D 

In time - CONFIRMED. Things happened on my rig exactly as you described. Thanks for your report and artefacts, now I have something to work with.

I didn't did any further tests or analysis due working hours, but I will come back to this issue tonight (hopefully).

Since I still think it's a KSP issue, I'm working this on Recall: https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/KSP-Recall/issues/70

If I realise it's a problem on something else, I will move the issue to the right place.

Cheers!

— — POST EDIT — — 

I removed all non essential dependencies from the rig, and nothing changed. So this is not something being cause, induced or triggered by 3rd parties for sure.

It's something on the CRG-15 Cargo Bay, or it's something on KSP itself.

@Krazy1, on a side note… Since I was toying with your contraption, I found that setting the Chute's "Min Pressure" setting to 0.45 would bring us the most realistic (or the less unrealistic!) behaviour. With the chute firing up too soon, your craft would be facing down yet, and the chute wold surely be entangled on the aerodynamic brakes (nice idea! I liked it!). Setting the Min Pressure to 0.45, it will only fire after the brakes managed to do their jobs putting the thing nose up. :) (yeah, completely unrelated, but hell - I wanna play too!!! :sticktongue:)

Edited by Lisias
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Lisias

Lisias

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 9/8/2023 at 4:56 AM, Krazy1 said:

Red pill or blue pill Lisias? I offer only the truth (well in my KSP at least)

Red:

  Reveal hidden contents

I have a ship from yesterday with a CRG-15 that does not block drag: 

has drag

I built and tested several more versions today and they ALL WORKED. No drag with doors closed. This one appears the same as the first... but the bay blocks drag correctly.

drag is good

I went back and forth testing these two several times and it is repeatable... one works, one broken. Same KSP session. 

But wait, there's more. I made an "extended" version of the broken ship, adding another bay at the bottom and... yep... top one broken, bottom one works.... same ship! 

extended, 1 good, 1 bad

I can't tell you what I did different. Maybe I translated the SEQ parts and then picked them up and dropped them on the node? Maybe I re-rooted it? But I tried those things on another ship today and it worked correctly. 

Just launch them, cheat to 20 km and watch aero data in PAWs. No need to use the chute. Krazyness.

Ladies and Gentleman, we have a diagnosis. #houseMdFeelinds

Spoiler

 

Somehow, your craft managed to get royally screwed:

266752627-a6c98fb1-395c-41b9-8bff-389269

See, the SEQ containers are attached on the Lab, not on the Cargo Bay! So the SEQ weren't shielded from drag, plain simple.

But HOW this happened? How some user could manage to attach a Lab with parts attached on its top node on the bottom node of another part?

Well, they coudn't. This craft was screwed by something programatically. And we have already an issue about the Editor where the ReRoot is known to royally screwed up the attachment nodes (issue #66 on KSP-Recall).

@Krazy1, do you remember using the ReRoot from the Editor on your craft?

Edited by Lisias
Tyop! Surprised?
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Krazy1

Krazy1

Posted
Posted
On 9/8/2023 at 9:13 AM, Lisias said:

I took them both. :sticktongue: Amusing, but gave me a hell of a hang over!!! :D 

bug hunting KSP will not help the situation. try water

On 9/8/2023 at 9:13 AM, Lisias said:

I was toying with your contraption,

I was boring and just pitched up vertical with reaction wheel after cheating to altitude 

18 hours ago, Lisias said:

Ladies and Gentleman, we have a diagnosis. #houseMdFeelinds

#catjam

18 hours ago, Lisias said:

do you remember using the ReRoot from the Editor on your craft?

Umm. Probably. The original ship I built bottom-up (actually radially attached this 2.5m stack from the bottom and built upward) and I built this test ship top down. So at some point I rerooted to the lab to test the difference in node trees... but then I remembered rerooting can screw things so I rerooted to the copula again... then of course thought it may be double screwed and started building a new ship bottom-up... then came back to this bad ship after many more tests and wasn't sure what I did anymore. :/ I'm using EEX which has the "reroot and drop" function. I'm sure I did reroot the original ship.

So if the nodes are screwed as you showed... does that screw the cargo bay to lab connection too? Could that mean lab top and cargo bay bottom have drag? And/ or the cargo bay bottom external node is screwed and it believes the bay is open and even radial parts inside the bay will be unshielded?  Welp time for more tests.

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Lisias

Lisias

Posted
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Krazy1 said:

<…>I'm using EEX which has the "reroot and drop" function. I'm sure I did reroot the original ship.

This explains the different Modus Operandi. EEX is probably being screwed by reusing the Stock ReRoot calls (or it's borking itself too, together but unrelated to Stock ReRoot) - but I'm guessing, I will need to check EEX myself to be sure.

In a way or another, it's important information. Thank you.

 

37 minutes ago, Krazy1 said:

So if the nodes are screwed as you showed... does that screw the cargo bay to lab connection too? Could that mean lab top and cargo bay bottom have drag? And/ or the cargo bay bottom external node is screwed and it believes the bay is open and even radial parts inside the bay will be unshielded?  Welp time for more tests.

As far as I remember, the connection between the Lab and the Cargo Bay was fine - but I need to look on the code craft file to be sure. What really screwed you was the SEQ parts being "transplanted" into the Lab, being removed from the Cargo Bay's authority. And so, the game engine applied drag on them as they were parts ordinarily attached on the craft - what they, indeed, were besides being (only) visually placed inside the Cargo Bay.

This one was insidious to diagnose, I must tell you - I almost didn't diagnosed it, I ended up insisting on crazy hypothesis (as the order of the part files on the file) more on desperation than method. "When you have eliminated all which is impossible then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Kerman.

The Cargo Bay was working as expected on the craft files where the SEQ thingies were still attached to one of its internal nodes. The problem was "only" the SEQ being "physically" attached to something else, instead of the Cargo Bay, so the ModuleCargoBay just didn't cared to check if these parts were inside its colliders.

In the end, it was that simple. :)

Edited by Lisias
Tyop! Surprised?
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Lisias

Lisias

Posted
Posted (edited)

ANNOUNCE

Release 26.6.2.0 is available for downloading, with the following changes:

  • New parts, courtesy of ColdJ!
    • CJFiftyOne (WMB VI "Vortex" Engine ColdJ)
    • CJBiplanegear (KS-H1 Fixed Landing Gear ColdJ)
  • Attachment Nodes' sizes overhaul
    • Fixing a lot of attachment nodes from parts that weren't adhering to Stock standards
  • Some small scattered fixes on
    • Category icons
    • @thumbs directory removal
      • this thing is auto generated by KSP at first run, and failures on installing these files crashes KSP. Doesn't worth the hassle to distribute them
    • Normalizing part configs for easier maintenance.
  • Certifies the thing to run from KSP 1.4.1 to the latest!! #HURRAY!!
    • It's possible that this thing will also work fine on KSP 1.3.1, but I didn't checked too much - and this may change at anytime in the future.
  • Removes Drag0nD3str0yer parts from the distribution, as they decided to pursue their own Add'On, Moderately Plane Related.
    • Users of the following recently added (and now removed) parts should install Moderately Plane Related:
      • f100intake (K-100 Intake)
      • F22_Elev (K-22A Stealth Control Surface)
      • mk0rampintake (Mk0 Ramp Intake)
      • mk3s1scoop (Mk3s1 Side Intake)
      • shorterramp (Shorter Ramp Intake)
      • shortramp (Short Ramp Intake)
      • F100 (K-100 Super Kabre)
  • Closes issues:
    • #13 Cargo Bays are working - from 1.3.1 to 1.12.5 (but not all of them)
    • #12 Mk3S1 Liquid Fuel Fuselage model glitch
    • #7 Remove parts from Drag0nD3str0yer
    • #4 Add proper attributions to Alioth FAR patch
    • #2 Add a Category entry to A+

I finally got my <piii> :P together and managed time to consolidate a lot of small (or not so small) fixes into a proper release - my time lately was kinda of squandered by diagnosing (and misdiagnosing) things on KSP, but in true without such efforts I would not be able to detect some of the problems I found on A+, so… Kinda of worth it.

On the bright side, fellow Kerbonaut @ColdJ graciously gave us new parts to be used on Airplane Plus! Thank you!

Additionally, Drag0nD3str0yer choose to pursue their own Add'On, Moderately Plane Related, and so their parts were removed from Airplane Plus distribution. You will find them (and many more) on MPR, there're some nice parts there waiting for you.

What's next

As I said, I didn't managed to execute all what I was intending to do, so this is what I will deliver in the next version (that I will not make any promises about the timeline… :blush: ):

Additionally, besides being a bit above my head at this moment, I'm slowly gathering knowledge to build SOFIA, as requested on https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/AirplanePlus/issues/8 . I really enjoyed the idea.

Finally, now that I have something worth of value to show, I'll reach @blackheart612 and see how to proceed about a formal adoption.

All the current distribution channels will be preserved.

Disclaimer

By last, but not the least...

Spoiler

No Module Manager was harmed during the development of TweakScale Airplane Plus.

 

This Release will be published using the following Schedule:

  • GitHub, reaching first manual installers and users of KSP-AVC. Right now.
  • Others are being worked out at this moment.
Edited by Lisias
Forgot the links, shame on me!!!
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Lisias

Lisias

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Kerbal410 said:

what is the difference between the new parts and what they are derived from?

These ones?

  • CJFiftyOne (WMB VI "Vortex" Engine ColdJ)
  • CJBiplanegear (KS-H1 Fixed Landing Gear ColdJ)

The CJFIftyOne is the old and faithful 51prop (WMB VI "Vortex" Engine), but using Stock animations making it more suitable to be used by people the prefers how the Serenity Engines look and feel. The purpose of this engine is to provide an alternative to the "standard" look and feel . I plan to provide an option on Airplane Plus to make the engines behave like this (worth to mention that people, like me, that likes more the current look and fell will keep the option to maintain them this way).

The CJBiplanegear is similat to the biplanegear (KS-H1 Fixed Landing Gear). Essentially, the mesh were reworked to better cope with Stock wheel modules. There're some small glitches yet (as one of the wheels rotating contrary to the motion), but the new wheels appears to be working better than the older.

These parts where provided so people could experiment with them and give feedback before committing more resources (a.k.a. time) on the refactoring.

Cheers!

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  • 3 weeks later...
ZeroA4

ZeroA4

Posted
Posted
On 9/9/2023 at 6:09 PM, Lisias said:

ANNOUNCE

Release 26.6.2.0 is available for downloading, with the following changes:

  • New parts, courtesy of ColdJ!
    • CJFiftyOne (WMB VI "Vortex" Engine ColdJ)
    • CJBiplanegear (KS-H1 Fixed Landing Gear ColdJ)
  • Attachment Nodes' sizes overhaul
    • Fixing a lot of attachment nodes from parts that weren't adhering to Stock standards
  • Some small scattered fixes on
    • Category icons
    • @thumbs directory removal
      • this thing is auto generated by KSP at first run, and failures on installing these files crashes KSP. Doesn't worth the hassle to distribute them
    • Normalizing part configs for easier maintenance.
  • Certifies the thing to run from KSP 1.4.1 to the latest!! #HURRAY!!
    • It's possible that this thing will also work fine on KSP 1.3.1, but I didn't checked too much - and this may change at anytime in the future.
  • Removes Drag0nD3str0yer parts from the distribution, as they decided to pursue their own Add'On, Moderately Plane Related.
    • Users of the following recently added (and now removed) parts should install Moderately Plane Related:
      • f100intake (K-100 Intake)
      • F22_Elev (K-22A Stealth Control Surface)
      • mk0rampintake (Mk0 Ramp Intake)
      • mk3s1scoop (Mk3s1 Side Intake)
      • shorterramp (Shorter Ramp Intake)
      • shortramp (Short Ramp Intake)
      • F100 (K-100 Super Kabre)
  • Closes issues:
    • #13 Cargo Bays are working - from 1.3.1 to 1.12.5 (but not all of them)
    • #12 Mk3S1 Liquid Fuel Fuselage model glitch
    • #7 Remove parts from Drag0nD3str0yer
    • #4 Add proper attributions to Alioth FAR patch
    • #2 Add a Category entry to A+

I finally got my <piii> :P together and managed time to consolidate a lot of small (or not so small) fixes into a proper release - my time lately was kinda of squandered by diagnosing (and misdiagnosing) things on KSP, but in true without such efforts I would not be able to detect some of the problems I found on A+, so… Kinda of worth it.

On the bright side, fellow Kerbonaut @ColdJ graciously gave us new parts to be used on Airplane Plus! Thank you!

Additionally, Drag0nD3str0yer choose to pursue their own Add'On, Moderately Plane Related, and so their parts were removed from Airplane Plus distribution. You will find them (and many more) on MPR, there're some nice parts there waiting for you.

What's next

As I said, I didn't managed to execute all what I was intending to do, so this is what I will deliver in the next version (that I will not make any promises about the timeline… :blush: ):

Additionally, besides being a bit above my head at this moment, I'm slowly gathering knowledge to build SOFIA, as requested on https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/AirplanePlus/issues/8 . I really enjoyed the idea.

Finally, now that I have something worth of value to show, I'll reach @blackheart612 and see how to proceed about a formal adoption.

All the current distribution channels will be preserved.

Disclaimer

By last, but not the least...

  Reveal hidden contents

No Module Manager was harmed during the development of TweakScale Airplane Plus.

 

This Release will be published using the following Schedule:

  • GitHub, reaching first manual installers and users of KSP-AVC. Right now.
  • Others are being worked out at this moment.

Hi Lisias, Will it be available on CKAN ? Obrigado

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Lisias

Lisias

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ZeroA4 said:

Hi Lisias, Will it be available on CKAN ? Obrigado

Eventually. I took too much time to deliver something, and @blackheart612 is not frequenting Forums since some time.

Ideally, I want to ask him to include me as an Author on SpaceDock and CurseForge, making everything transparent to users - but even if we decide to publish on new entries on SD, I still need his authorisation so CKAN guys accept redirecting the current AirplanePlus CKAN tag to the new location.

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Kerbal410

Kerbal410

Posted
Posted (edited)

has anyone ever noticed that when attaching parts to the skids in mirror symmetry,  the parts don't look quite symmetrical? below is a link showing what I mean. do you have any insight on what could be happening?

(not shown in the link, but I have tried using a cubic strut to get the two sections in the middle perfectly, but even that showed to not be even at all)

https://imgur.com/a/XZx7X3o

also, (this could be from another mod I removed recently) but I thought this mod had its own category in the editor. no issue without it, just something I noticed after removing Heisenberg and its dependencies.

Edited by Kerbal410
forgot link
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Lisias

Lisias

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Kerbal410 said:

has anyone ever noticed that when attaching parts to the skids in mirror symmetry,  the parts don't look quite symmetrical? below is a link showing what I mean. do you have any insight on what could be happening?

(not shown in the link, but I have tried using a cubic strut to get the two sections in the middle perfectly, but even that showed to not be even at all)

https://imgur.com/a/XZx7X3o

Symmetry is pretty screwed up on a lot of parts, this is another task force I need to cope soon. I plan to work on it at the same time I work on the wheels, as they are pretty affected by this symmetry mishaps.

HOWEVER, on my rig the symmetry for the A+ parts I'm seeing on your pic:

mltGhYX.jpeg

are working fine. This is my take:

271810594-fcc2905b-c3f8-4d7e-8278-bdbe7d

See? The symmetry is working perfectly on my rig.

So it's something on the floaters you are using (SXT?), or perhaps something on a previous A+ version? I just released a RC above with some fixes I'm doing over the year, perhaps this new release would better suit you?

EDIT:

The user is right!

271817093-a158c84b-9a12-4d9d-886f-ff51cc

@Kerbal410, I confirm your report. The Landing Skid have its colliders messed up.

https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/AirplanePlus/issues/14

/EDIT

16 hours ago, Kerbal410 said:

also, (this could be from another mod I removed recently) but I thought this mod had its own category in the editor. no issue without it, just something I noticed after removing Heisenberg and its dependencies.

I think you reverted A+ to a previous version? My release above have the Category working fine. I really don't remember if the upstream's had a problem on it (or if it had a Category at all), so I'm guessing. But in a way or another, I have a category for A+ here on my test bed right now, using my latest release.

Edited by Lisias
EDIT - Nope the user is right.
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  • 3 weeks later...
Zmeya

Zmeya

Posted
Posted
On 9/9/2023 at 2:09 PM, Lisias said:

 

  • The helicopter parts are screwed.

They are? I've used them to make a couple helicopters relatively recently. Aside from being odd functionally speaking they seem to be working just fine for me, but I might be using an outdated version and that might be why.

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Kerbal410

Kerbal410

Posted
Posted
On 10/20/2023 at 9:22 PM, Zmeya said:

They are? I've used them to make a couple helicopters relatively recently. Aside from being odd functionally speaking they seem to be working just fine for me, but I might be using an outdated version and that might be why.

the skids have a minor issue with the collider, if you attach other parts to them.

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Kerbal410

Kerbal410

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Lisias said:

Yep, diagnosed a few posts above:

Will be fixed soon™ :)

I know, just saw someone say they they didn't have many issues with helicopter parts, and I brought up the issue with the skids, technically a helicopter part. I was trying to use them for a seaplane similar to the "Kingfisher Mk2" by @blackheart612 and discovered the issue.

Edited by Kerbal410
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Zmeya

Zmeya

Posted
Posted
On 10/26/2023 at 8:10 PM, Kerbal410 said:

I know, just saw someone say they they didn't have many issues with helicopter parts, and I brought up the issue with the skids, technically a helicopter part. I was trying to use them for a seaplane similar to the "Kingfisher Mk2" by @blackheart612 and discovered the issue.

I never use the skids, only the rotors, and the only problems I've had with the rotors are that the smaller ones are rather impractical and that scaling them up doesn't seem to do much. if anything.?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Lett

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