Why is this game still on the market place?

[The_Rocketeer]

29 minutes ago, Sonny_Jim said:

Insinuating that someone doesn't have a valid point of view and is only commenting to stir the pot isn't really a productive thing to say.

I wasn't insinuating he didn't have a valid point of view - how did you get to that? On second thought don't tell me, this whole thread is deep deep in the long grass already.

34 minutes ago, Sonny_Jim said:

I'm not sure why you feel this way.

Because it's devolving yet again into personal attacks and criticism instead of serious, mature discussion of the question in point. It was closed for a thorough clean last night for over 2 hours, and I can't imagine that the mods consider that time well spent if they have to do it again the next night. Simpler to close and forget.

[razark]

48 minutes ago, John FX said:

retracted

Retracted, as well.

Edited September 2, 2016 by razark

[The_Rocketeer]

9 minutes ago, razark said:

And it took well over a week and fifteen and a half pages to get that.

@razark this statement suggests you are under the impression that threads like this are the proper way to get an official response on the console bugfix situation. They aren't. In fact the OP didn't even ask for such, he just made a ranty point about bad publicity and thread closures - the style of some sentences does suggest the post was directed at Squad or the dev team, but this forum isn't their official mailbox, it's a public discussion forum for English-speaking KSP fans worldwide. If the dev team read anything here that's kinda fortunate.

Fifteen and a half pages of public correspondence is hardly a suitably addressed request for information from a specific organisation on a specific issue, even if it is technically being published on their intellectual property.

[razark]

13 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said:

this statement suggests you are under the impression that threads like this are the proper way to get an official response on the console bugfix situation.

I never said it was the best.  But if Squad desires to maintain a good reputation with it's users, acknowledging them before it turns into a multi-page crapfest might be a good idea. 

 

13 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said:

this forum isn't their official mailbox, it's a public discussion forum for English-speaking KSP fans worldwide.

And some people wished to express their views that the game was not worth what they had paid for it, that they had a desire for a fix, and that they did not like feeling that they were being ignored.  That sounds like discussion.  You'll also notice that neither the mods or Squad have removed, closed, deleted, ignored this thread.  They must not be in complete opposition to people expressing their views, even if those views are negative.

 

13 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said:

If the dev team read anything here that's kinda fortunate.

I guess you have a point.  Maybe this thread should have been in the "Suggestions" area to begin with.  The existence of that area implies that the devs pay some attention.

 

 

Anyway, complaining that the console guys are still complaining (even after they've been told they really should just have a warm glow in their hearts and that if they think happy thoughts, they too can have a working game (someday)) is not going to help either the subject of this thread, or the tone of the responses.  It's really only going to make them feel even more unwanted and ignored.

Look, it boils down to the fact that the console folks are either a group of players that wish to be a part of KSP, or a bunch of whining, sniveling, useless twits.
If they're twits, they don't deserve a response, and you can just move on and ignore them.
If they're fellow players, then they should be welcomed and acknowledged, instead of made to feel like they don't matter.

Treating them like crap isn't going to do anyone any good in either case.
 

Edited September 2, 2016 by razark

[Space Station 4 Crash]

Started another career tonight. I'm so stupid. (PS4)

"Why can't I quit you?" - Broke Back Mountain

[Guest]

Hola!  This is fascinating!  Obviously related to the problem of "nextgen" gaming systems fast-tracking releases.  Same thing happened with Rock Band 4, which was broken until 3rd update.  It seems like this should be an easy fix related to memory buffer size.  Just make it work so we can build some rockets.  Maybe on 2nd update you go for EVA staging fix.

[m4v]

3 hours ago, The_Rocketeer said:

I can tell. But what you're talking about here isn't honesty, it's accuracy. The claims I have made for myself and others, while vague about exclusivity, have been honest. So I'd still like that apology please. Actually, I'll let it go with a simple retraction/correction. Seems to work for Rupert Murdoch, and he's not a nice kind of person either.

So you can be vague with your statements while my criticism got transformed into an accusation of dishonesty so grave that apologizes were in order. This didn't need to drag on like this had you not taken it personally, just like I ignored your insinuation of me trying to stir the pot or your comparison with Murdoch just now. Is simple y'know?

 

3 hours ago, The_Rocketeer said:

I can understand this, even though I hold no view on whether you're right or wrong about Squad's business practices. However your posts in this thread cannot and will not achieve this. So I don't really understand how you are benefiting from your participation in this discussion. You have also (again) ignored my request for suggestions of something else I/we PC gamers can do that would be more useful that what we have done so far. This community, after all, is the primary target audience of any post published here

Posting nothing achieves nothing as well, so I don't see how that is any better. Which is the reason I ignored your request, there's nothing we can do that will improve this situation, only Squad can make it better. People will continue complaining until there's a patch or they stop caring about KSP, which would be sad.

Edited September 2, 2016 by m4v
posted before finished

[Vanamonde]

Please stop talking about each other and go back to discussing the topic of the thread. 

Some of the console complaints have been hyperbolic and some have been reasonable, but even the unreasonable ones do not deserve to be shouted down. Please stop telling each other that the other side is wrong for feeling the way that it does. 

Also, a post or two have been removed from the thread for complaining about each other's writing. Please keep in mind that not everyone who plays KSP is a native-English speaker, and appreciate them even trying to express themselves in a foreign language. 

[Corona688]

 

Quote

 

And some people wished to express their views that the game was not worth what they had paid for it, that they had a desire for a fix, and that they did not like feeling that they were being ignored.  That sounds like discussion.  You'll also notice that neither the mods or Squad have removed, closed, deleted, ignored this thread.  They must not be in complete opposition to people expressing their views, even if those views are negative.

This thread is getting exceptionally careful treatment if anything.  Also, the moderators are mostly volunteers as I understand it.

Quote

I guess you have a point.  Maybe this thread should have been in the "Suggestions" area to begin with.  The existence of that area implies that the devs pay some attention.

There's been short-lived "make the console port not suck" type threads all over, some in the bugs / gameplay sections have had dev/staff reply.  (None too satisfying of course, there's no satisfying answer yet, but no echo chamber.)  This is just the thread which caught fire in the "fun" section, it's disquieting to see it here.  Hence me running around with a puny spraymister in the burning house.

 

Quote

Look, it boils down to the fact that the console folks are either a group of players that wish to be a part of KSP, or a bunch of whining, sniveling, useless twits.
If they're twits, they don't deserve a response, and you can just move on and ignore them.
If they're fellow players, then they should be welcomed and acknowledged, instead of made to feel like they don't matter.

There's little reason for a PC/console divide to exist here;  KSP isn't multiplayer, and the console game is nearly feature complete, possibly even save-compatible.  So far I've seen them welcomed everywhere they try to participate.  Screenshots get liked.  Gameplay questions are answered promptly and helpfully, where possible, or with a "sorry, we're working on it".  I haven't spotted a "master race" avatar yet.

Then I see this boiling perpetually in the "fun" sections and caught myself wondering, "good god, is this what console players are about?"

Then I took off the rose tinted glasses and remembered threads just as bad about the game not having a moon yet, probably in the wrong forums too.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Corona688

[Stargate525]

53 minutes ago, Corona688 said:

...and the console game is nearly feature complete, possibly even save-compatible.

For a game that is being SOLD AS A FINISHED PRODUCT, 'nearly' isn't anywhere NEAR good enough. Old-timers need to get it into their heads that the game is no longer in beta. Come 1.0, the game should be feature-complete, relatively bug free, and fully functional.

That includes saving. Something that should have been tested, and never allowed to get out of QA.

[Corona688]

Just now, Stargate525 said:

For a game that is being SOLD AS A FINISHED PRODUCT, 'nearly' isn't anywhere NEAR good enough. Old-timers need to get it into their heads that the game is no longer in beta. Come 1.0, the game should be feature-complete, relatively bug free, and fully functional.

If you ever got the impression I disagreed, I have no idea what thread you were reading.  Not this one.

[Stargate525]

2 minutes ago, Corona688 said:

If you ever got the impression I disagreed, I have no idea what thread you were reading.  Not this one.

Wasn't replying directly to you, more for the others watching. Debate's around to sway the listeners, not the opponent. My point is basically to remind people that's the main crux of the problem.

[Corona688]

4 minutes ago, Stargate525 said:

Wasn't replying directly to you, more for the others watching.

Try and give them a little credit for intelligence.

4 minutes ago, Stargate525 said:

Debate's around to sway the listeners, not the opponent.

What debate?

 

[Stargate525]

Just now, Corona688 said:

Try and give them a little credit for intelligence.

I know better. I work customer service.

[Corona688]

Then you understand.

[pandaman]

@m4v  if you don't believe that I can understand your situation then it would appear that my imagination is somewhat better than yours.

 

To all new console players...

This forum is a friendly,  welcoming place.  Experienced players are always happy to welcome new players and help anyone, old and new,  with any issues they may have.

I, along with many others on here are trying to pass on our understanding, based on our own past experiences, in the hope that it will at least help you to feel that 'all is not lost' and that, despite the lack of the official 'answers' you seek, your issues have not been forgotten and will be addressed as quickly as possible, and we want to try to make you feel welcome here as new members of the KSP community.

We don't have, and can't provide, the solution, but at least accept our comments here in the spirit of support and understanding with which they are intended. 

 

 

 

[cfds]

I think it's funny that no one answered the OP's question yet.

If Microsoft and Sony would take the game out of the shops they would admit that they were selling a broken game. And then they would have to give refunds to people who demand them.

[Bandus]

26 minutes ago, cfds said:

I think it's funny that no one answered the OP's question yet.

If Microsoft and Sony would take the game out of the shops they would admit that they were selling a broken game. And then they would have to give refunds to people who demand them.

No one here can really answer the OP's question. Any answer provided by someone not representing Microsoft, Sony, or Squad is pure speculation. 

 

Edited September 2, 2016 by Bandus

[ModZero]

Flame war. Flame war never changes.

[Snark]

2 hours ago, ModZero said:

Flame war. Flame war never changes.

I wouldn't characterize this thread as just a "flame war."  (Bearing in mind that, as a moderator, I pretty much have to get up close and personal with flame wars on a routine basis, including ones you've never seen because they were so toxic that the whole thing had to be axed.  So I've got a bit of experience, here.)

In my book, a "flame war" is "pointless bickering between opposing sides when neither side is willing to give in or back down."  For example, some topic X where one side thinks "X is great!" and the other is "X sucks!" and there's no real substance to anything other than "people have different opinions and can be jerks about it."

That's not the case here.

The console port of KSP does, in fact, have serious problems-- the kind of major blocking problems that can really stop a player from being able to enjoy the game.  This is a blocker for the entire console-playing portion of the KSP community, and they're justifiably upset about it.  Posting opinions about KSP in the forum-- including angry opinions-- about aspects of the game that cause player issues is a time-honored tradition here.  PC players have been doing it for years, so why can't console players do it, too?

So that is not, IMO, a "flame war".  It's why this thread is still open.  If this whole imbroglio were just a flame war, we would long since have shut the thread down-- there's no use keeping a flame war going.

Of course, the thread is an especially contentious one, and there have been some flame wars in it-- which is why the moderator team has had to step in several times to tidy things up when they got out of hand, i.e. when bickering spiraled out of control to the point that people were pointing fingers at each other and arguing about arguing, rather than sticking to the actual topic of the thread, which is the console version of KSP and the problems it's causing people.  But the thread itself is not a "flame war."

I'm not saying the situation is easy for anyone.

• First and foremost, it's not an easy situation for the console players, who have a serious game-blocking problem that they can't do anything about except sit and wait for a patch, without knowing when it will come.  (For anyone not in that boat... try to imagine just how galling that must be.)
• For the PC players who aren't bitten by that bug, it's hard to watch what looks to them like KSP-bashing and just stand by.
• And it's no picnic for the moderators, either-- we can't actually solve anyone's problem (we don't work for Squad, we're just volunteers, we don't have any more inside info about this than you do), so there's no way for us to actually help anybody, which is really hard for me personally (and I expect is hard for the other mods as well).  All we can do is stand by and try to pour water on the fire when it blazes out of bounds.

All of which is just rambling, I suppose... just would like to reiterate what other moderators have said several times already, which is please try not to make this personal against each other.  It doesn't help anyone.

And please be respectful of others' choice to voice their opinions.

[Space Station 4 Crash]

Let me add a machete to this frustration thicket. I once saw Chuck Norris throw a bear at a PS4 and it fixed a corrupt game save. I hope this helps Squad!

I'm hoping all the KSP super fans on here have a great long weekend, even if that may be Kerbaless. There is a future for KSP on console and it is coming. The future is bright, like flying a rocket into the sun. I know this doesn't subside the frustration (rightfully so) but I think this game and its community are awesome. I'm new here and glad to see that there are people fighting for consumer rights and others reassuring us that this is an understandable dilemma that will be fixed. Justifiable? I don't know, but understandable.

Peace out Kerbonauts.

[Guest]

I agree with

Space Station 4 Crash

In the future we will be able to publish and share KSP builds just like in GTA Online creator.  The future is bright but patience is required.  Send your positive vibes to SQUAD!  It's not their fault that spystation wanted their awesome game.

[klesh]

This frustration all comes from Squad treating KSP like it is still in early acess.   People will forgive you for game breaking bugs that interrupt your ability to play the game, hence the discounted prices you see in early access.

When you use industry standard definitions like "released" and "1.0", people are going to expect your game works.  

 

For some unknown reason, Squad continues to act like this game is in early access with a seemingly never-ending development that is counter to most of the industry's "released" games.  Maybe this is because it is their first game, who knows.   This should be chapter 1 in the game dev's "What not to do with your smash hit early access game"; which is a shame, as KSP was often herralded as one of the better examples of the early access process working properly.

 

I think Flying Tiger shares much of the blame with this fiasco as well.   Their record is less than stellar to begin with... They're pretty much a crappy mobile games dev.  But then again Squad is the one that hired them and handed them their baby to botch.  

 

Disappointing all around.  

 

Edit: I want to add that any gripe I have is not with any of the Squad guys that post here, the issue is well above the regular Joe working there.  Simply referring to "Squad" the entity, as opposed to the folks that just code away, tasked with what they are tasked with.  

Edited September 4, 2016 by klesh

[The_Rocketeer]

@DOCTOR DEMENTAL welcome to the forums - to link another member to your posts, type @ followed by the first few letters of their handle and a drop-down dialog will open for u to select who you mean.

[RW1984]

27 minutes ago, klesh said:

This frustration all comes from Squad treating KSP like it is still in early acess.   People will forgive you for game breaking bugs that interrupt your ability to play the game, hence the discounted prices you see in early access.

When you use industry standard definitions like "released" and "1.0", people are going to expect your game works.  

 

For some unknown reason, Squad continues to act like this game is in early access with a seemingly never-ending development that is counter to most of the industry's "released" games.  Maybe this is because it is their first game, who knows.   This should be chapter 1 in the game dev's "What not to do with your smash hit early access game"; which is a shame, as KSP was often herralded as one of the better examples of the early access process working properly.

 

I think Flying Tiger shares much of the blame with this fiasco as well.   Their record is less than stellar to begin with... They're pretty much a crappy mobile games dev.  But then again Squad is the one that hired them and handed them their baby to botch.  

 

Disappointing all around.  

Check out flying tigers Facebook page. Their last post said that a patch was in testing and would be available very shortly, that was over two weeks ago. Plus they said that they were sorry the updates haven't been as frequent, laughable what updates. This company seems like they can't handle this task.