[1.3] Planetary Domes

[Bombaatu]

26 minutes ago, InfiniteAtom said:

How do I get the resources for that to the planet? From my experience, large things require massive amounts of resources, as in way too much. (A soyuz rocket would take 11 million rocket parts or something crazy like that) But I can try.

Either the Pathfinder or MKS mods can create the parts in-situ from mined resources. Of the two, Pathfinder is less complicated.  So the idea would be to send a small "bootstrap" base (one that can do mining & create additional parts), build up your infrastructure, then go for the big stuff.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Bombaatu

[DStaal]

27 minutes ago, InfiniteAtom said:

How do I get the resources for that to the planet? From my experience, large things require massive amounts of resources, as in way too much. (A soyuz rocket would take 11 million rocket parts or something crazy like that) But I can try.

You can either ship the parts up in smaller batches (EL doesn't need all the parts at the start, and will pause a build if you run out partway through) or you mine and refine parts on site using the ISRU's provided by EL.  (Or whatever mods you are using - UKS/MKS notably changes EL to a different resource chain.)

[Mordrehl]

Hey Thrimm, any chance you'll update this to 1.2?  had just found this mod before the patch and haven't had a chance to experience your creation

[Thrimm]

1 minute ago, Mordrehl said:

Hey Thrimm, any chance you'll update this to 1.2?  had just found this mod before the patch and haven't had a chance to experience your creation

I believe it works in 1.2 already, but I'll make a proper update soon.

[Mordrehl]

Just now, Thrimm said:

I believe it works in 1.2 already, but I'll make a proper update soon.

Awesome, I'll give it a try in 1.2 then as is and update later.    So many mods, so many downloads hehe

[magnemoe]

On 28.9.2016 at 5:27 AM, Bombaatu said:

I see this happening:

Tested this, problem is that the base plate has only one node who is used for the dome itself, it should have two, one for bottom and one for node, had even be nice with even more for adding an central structure. 

And yes it works nice in 1.2

Edited October 13, 2016 by magnemoe

[Thrimm]

On 29/09/2016 at 9:50 PM, Bombaatu said:

Probably not doable, but it would also be neat if the domes/tubes contained a breathable atmo no matter where it is, as long as it's sealed.

On my own I have no idea how to do that, or even if it's possible. It would be awesome though. As far as I know, the question has already been asked in the Texture Replacer thread.

On 02/10/2016 at 0:17 PM, C04L said:

have just noticed this mod. amazing. cant install it yet as im playtesting 1.2

the domes themselves..... do they emit light or to you have to install lighting? im thinking ofcourse for when your mun base is on the dark side. would be brilliant if they automatically emitted light.

As of now they don't emit light, so you have to install external lighting. I'll think about adding this to the future releases.

On 03/10/2016 at 10:59 AM, drtedastro said:

Ok, this is great.  Looks really nice.

stupid question here.... How does one launch it to a different planet?

I seem to be lost on that little point.

Cheers.

Next update will focus on packaging and easier assembly. Current plans are that the domes will be shipped in containers and deployed on site, while airlock and tunnels will have custom docking ports for assembly.

On 06/10/2016 at 11:14 PM, nascarlaser1 said:

*screams like a little girl*. This is what I've been wanting in stock since day 1 of me joining!! A base, that I can literally build INSIDE of!!!! YAAYY!!!!.

*ahem*.. back to business now..... Is this compatible with KIS/KAS? If so I can just build this in the field, without strapping it to giant rockets.

It is compatible with KIS/KAS, however the parts are so large that most of them won't fit into any container. This is something I'm working on right now.

[N70]

\o/ This is something i've always wanted! A base you can WALK inside of! I'm not sure if Kerbalism support has been added (has it?). If not, I'm willing to help once the Next Big Update for Kerbalism comes out.

[drtedastro]

3 hours ago, Thrimm said:

On my own I have no idea how to do that, or even if it's possible. It would be awesome though. As far as I know, the question has already been asked in the Texture Replacer thread.

As of now they don't emit light, so you have to install external lighting. I'll think about adding this to the future releases.

Next update will focus on packaging and easier assembly. Current plans are that the domes will be shipped in containers and deployed on site, while airlock and tunnels will have custom docking ports for assembly.

It is compatible with KIS/KAS, however the parts are so large that most of them won't fit into any container. This is something I'm working on right now.

All sounds great .. 

Looking forward to the update.

Cheers.

[nascarlaser1]

9 hours ago, Thrimm said:

On my own I have no idea how to do that, or even if it's possible. It would be awesome though. As far as I know, the question has already been asked in the Texture Replacer thread.

As of now they don't emit light, so you have to install external lighting. I'll think about adding this to the future releases.

Next update will focus on packaging and easier assembly. Current plans are that the domes will be shipped in containers and deployed on site, while airlock and tunnels will have custom docking ports for assembly.

It is compatible with KIS/KAS, however the parts are so large that most of them won't fit into any container. This is something I'm working on right now.

could you use one the KIS/KAS script, and make a custom container as an extension to KIS/KAS?

[Deimos Rast]

@Thrimm

 

FYI: all your domes have a typo in the bottom node, and read like so:

	node_stack_bottom = 0, 0, 0, 0, -1, 0
, 3

And naming your airlock "airlock" sets you up for part conflicts with other mods, as I can think of at least one other mod that also name their airlock "Airlock". Obviously, if you change the internal name now, you risk save breaks, but you could keep it as a legacy part. Just a thought.

[Thrimm]

10 minutes ago, Deimos Rast said:

@Thrimm

 

FYI: all your domes have a typo in the bottom node, and read like so:

	node_stack_bottom = 0, 0, 0, 0, -1, 0
, 3

And naming your airlock "airlock" sets you up for part conflicts with other mods, as I can think of at least one other mod that also name their airlock "Airlock". Obviously, if you change the internal name now, you risk save breaks, but you could keep it as a legacy part. Just a thought.

I believe that the typo you're talking about arises from using a software that changes the text formatting:

Spoiler

and regarding the names, I suppose incompatibilities will show up. I'm not using many mods and really can't keep track of everything. I'll make the fixes when such incompatibilities are found. On the other hand, I prefer putting part names that make sense and are somewhat related to the in-game part name (not like the stock Vector for example). Thanks for your input!

[Odonian]

I really like this mod's dome design. Any chance of getting tweakscale compatibility? Perfectly hemispheric domes would be a neat feature too, so that one could assemble perfect orbs. Who doesn't love a good orb?

[Thrimm]

1 hour ago, Odonian said:

I really like this mod's dome design. Any chance of getting tweakscale compatibility? Perfectly hemispheric domes would be a neat feature too, so that one could assemble perfect orbs. Who doesn't love a good orb?

A big update is on its way, but it will take a couple of days (weeks?) before it's done. Tweakscale compatibility will be included probably.

[theJesuit]

I realise that the update is big - can you give us a rundown on what will be included please?

Just keen (and hyped) to know!

[Thrimm]

5 hours ago, theJesuit said:

I realise that the update is big - can you give us a rundown on what will be included please?

Just keen (and hyped) to know!

Sure, current plans include:

- more domes (obviously): not entirely transparent variants with small windows, elongated ones (so not perfectly hemispherical), external airlocks with animated hatches and garage domes that also have animated doors/airlocks

- packaging system. It's easy to make behave as if they were inflatable (from a developer perspective), but since they are rigid structures I prefer to have an unfolding animation that matches that concept. This is hard, because it can't be too long, it can't be too complicated and at the same time has to look realistic. The idea is that the domes come in custom containers that you deploy on site, with floors already being preattached.

- connections. I'm not a plugin wizard and as a workaround I designed a docking system that will allow you to connect domes, tunnels and airlocks together after deployment while maintaining current functionality

- texture switching for floors and domes

- power systems. This might come as a standalone mod or an extension to this one, but it will include renewable energies pack (wind and solar, multiple types) that you can place as standalone buildings next to your base or a top of your existing structures. Current plans are: standard big solar panels, concentrator flat panels, concentrator concave panels (spherical), standard wind turbines (at least two sizes) and helical wind turbines (small). @RoverDude added geothermal generators to one of his mods so I'll leave that one for now, because he did far better job than I ever will.

- adapters for Planetary Base Systems

- airlock interiors

I looked into making the airlocks behave as tunnels do now (aka empty) with animated doors but the problem of reconnecting them to the domes is not easy to handle. Domes need to be either pre-cut with caps as suggested earlier, but that multiplies part count quite a lot for bigger bases. I've tested multiple approaches but none really worked (like fairings). I still have some ideas but most of them are overly complicated.

As for adding interior structures, I don't think it's going to happen soon. The whole point of this mod is to be an extension to the existing ones like MKS, PBS and such. Since the functionality is not doubled anywhere, they are always compatible. I'm not saying it's never going to happen, just not now.

So all of this (and maybe more) is coming soon^TM. I can't tell you when exactly since we have another big project going on as well, but I'm working on Planetary Domes nevertheless!

Thanks for your support guys!

[hab136]

On 10/28/2016 at 4:20 PM, Thrimm said:

and regarding the names, I suppose incompatibilities will show up. I'm not using many mods and really can't keep track of everything. I'll make the fixes when such incompatibilities are found. On the other hand, I prefer putting part names that make sense and are somewhat related to the in-game part name (not like the stock Vector for example). Thanks for your input!

Any easy way to make part names unique is just use a prefix:

name = PlanetaryDomes_Airlock

name = PlanetaryDomes_DomeFloor

name = PlanetaryDomes_Tunnel

Think of it like adding the directory name, then the part name... so GameData/PlanetaryDomes/Airlock/Airlock.cfg turns into PlanetaryDomes_Airlock.  Simple, makes sense, keeps your part names unique, and also readily identifies where the parts came from.  This helps when someone re-installs KSP or removes a bunch of mods and then tries to identify what mod they need because their ship has a missing part.  The game will tell them they're missing "PlanetaryDomes_Airlock" (instead of just "Airlock") and the user will have a better chance of realizing they need to install PlanetaryDomes.

When you change a part's name, anyone who has used that part in a ship will have to edit their save file and saved crafts to update the name, using Notepad or something.  This is a huge pain in the rear, but the longer your mod has been out there, the more work such a change will cause for more people, so it's better to make these kind of changes early.  If you're releasing a 1.2-compatible version soon, that would be a good time to make such a change, since a lot of mods broke anyways in the 1.1.3 -> 1.2 transition.

[JadeOfMaar]

On 11/1/2016 at 11:11 AM, Thrimm said:

Sure, current plans include:

- more domes (obviously): not entirely transparent variants with small windows, elongated ones (so not perfectly hemispherical), external airlocks with animated hatches and garage domes that also have animated doors/airlocks

- packaging system. It's easy to make behave as if they were inflatable (from a developer perspective), but since they are rigid structures I prefer to have an unfolding animation that matches that concept. This is hard, because it can't be too long, it can't be too complicated and at the same time has to look realistic. The idea is that the domes come in custom containers that you deploy on site, with floors already being preattached.

- connections. I'm not a plugin wizard and as a workaround I designed a docking system that will allow you to connect domes, tunnels and airlocks together after deployment while maintaining current functionality

- texture switching for floors and domes

- power systems. This might come as a standalone mod or an extension to this one, but it will include renewable energies pack (wind and solar, multiple types) that you can place as standalone buildings next to your base or a top of your existing structures. Current plans are: standard big solar panels, concentrator flat panels, concentrator concave panels (spherical), standard wind turbines (at least two sizes) and helical wind turbines (small). @RoverDude added geothermal generators to one of his mods so I'll leave that one for now, because he did far better job than I ever will.

- adapters for Planetary Base Systems

- airlock interiors

I looked into making the airlocks behave as tunnels do now (aka empty) with animated doors but the problem of reconnecting them to the domes is not easy to handle. Domes need to be either pre-cut with caps as suggested earlier, but that multiplies part count quite a lot for bigger bases. I've tested multiple approaches but none really worked (like fairings). I still have some ideas but most of them are overly complicated.

As for adding interior structures, I don't think it's going to happen soon. The whole point of this mod is to be an extension to the existing ones like MKS, PBS and such. Since the functionality is not doubled anywhere, they are always compatible. I'm not saying it's never going to happen, just not now.

So all of this (and maybe more) is coming soon^TM. I can't tell you when exactly since we have another big project going on as well, but I'm working on Planetary Domes nevertheless!

Thanks for your support guys!

This is really, really nice. Hoping to get to explore all this wonderful stuff at the full release. I'm most curious about the windmill parts. I wonder if they'll respond dynamically to atmosphere (and especially, be useless in vacuum). I'm sure they'll be RTG-like and I'm hoping they have some kind of parabolic efficiency curve based on atmo pressure. They should be weak in thin atmospheres like Duna, just fine in Laythe or Kerbin-like atmosphere, and somewhere in between or weak again in places like Eve as they ought to have very strong brakes to keep from being spooled up to self-destruction.

I just watched an episode of your big project and was blown away. Wow!

[theJesuit]

Just had a thought - the 12.5m domes don't cover the monoliths - at least not at the KSC.  Would you consider a dome large enough to cover the monoliths.  If not there is always tweakscale

Peace.

[The-Doctor]

On 11/4/2016 at 6:04 AM, hab136 said:

Any easy way to make part names unique is just use a prefix:

name = PlanetaryDomes_Airlock

name = PlanetaryDomes_DomeFloor

name = PlanetaryDomes_Tunnel

Think of it like adding the directory name, then the part name... so GameData/PlanetaryDomes/Airlock/Airlock.cfg turns into PlanetaryDomes_Airlock.  Simple, makes sense, keeps your part names unique, and also readily identifies where the parts came from.  This helps when someone re-installs KSP or removes a bunch of mods and then tries to identify what mod they need because their ship has a missing part.  The game will tell them they're missing "PlanetaryDomes_Airlock" (instead of just "Airlock") and the user will have a better chance of realizing they need to install PlanetaryDomes.

When you change a part's name, anyone who has used that part in a ship will have to edit their save file and saved crafts to update the name, using Notepad or something.  This is a huge pain in the rear, but the longer your mod has been out there, the more work such a change will cause for more people, so it's better to make these kind of changes early.  If you're releasing a 1.2-compatible version soon, that would be a good time to make such a change, since a lot of mods broke anyways in the 1.1.3 -> 1.2 transition.

I really can't wait to try this. Will the packaging it comes in be dock-able? That way you dock them together then inflate them into a base?

[Starslinger999]

does this work with 1.2.1?

[The-Doctor]

eagerly waits

[The-Doctor]

@Thrimm one interesting question, if the base is meant to be packaged and later unfolds, how do we get things into it?

[Julie]

Are there any way to add trees and some sort of greenery, to your domes? Awesome mod, but looks a bit sterile and lifeless. Googling just gives me a bunch of things talking about "tech trees" or weather or not they can see trees, on kerbal. (I see none there either, with scattering on 100%)

But yeah... trees in the dome need to be a thing,  I think. :-) 

[Thrimm]

Guys, I believe I owe you an explanation.

First, let me start with a big THANK YOU to everyone who downloaded Planetary Domes and supports its development. I would have never expected something like this happening and it motivates me to work on this mod even more. That said, I've been hard at work testing several different solutions that would make the domes foldable and I need your opinion to help me decide where to take this mod in the future.

Most of the test were in an early alpha version on the update so they are not really eligible for public testing. However, a couple of major possible development branches emerged, each with its own perks and issues.

- foldable domes must have a floor integrated in and there is really no way to make them work without KIS/KAS unless a custom docking nodes are introduced. However, adding multiple docking nodes to the same part is a direct portal to the kraken realm. I really don't know what to do with this one, since I would like to make this mod standalone, even if its full potential could be unlocked with KIS/KAS

- if domes are foldable, attaching airlocks and tunnels becomes an issue of its own. Again with KIS/KAS this is not a big deal, but without it the system simply doesn't work. I've tried making custom docking nodes (again) for PD parts, with fairings as potential solution for smoothing the connection. It has the same problem, there is a need for multiple docking nodes (side note: these nodes follow a hierarchy and are custom, meaning that they do not mate with stock docking ports and only mate within a specific family, ie airlocks with tunnels but not with floor attachment points. For the game however it is still one docking port with multiple different docking nodes that creates A LOT of problems)

- foldable domes require multiple animations to be present, one to unpack (from shipping container, presumably one time use) and another to seal/unseal the dome, otherwise the dome wouldn't allow any base components to be installed inside. It should be obvious for you now that every animation would change the relative attachment point for the airlock and tunnels, which increases complexity even more (apart from making the animations simple yet pretty)

- technically everything could be docked (base components to floors, domes to floors and airlock/tunnels to domes) but it will be very buggy

- a solution to that might be in dynamic nodes such as those used in Konstruction by @RoverDude or IR. This would still however require KIS/KAS

- another feature I tested are hollow airlocks. Airlock would not be IVA spaces as they are now, but would behave much like tunnels and domes with animated doors and stuff. It would allow you to walk inside the PD base from one end to the other

- a simple solution to above problems is to make PD another base building mod where all spaces are IVA. There would be dedicated domes for everything: habitation, laboratory, aeroponics, etc (and compatible with USI for example) but you would loose the freedom of walking around inside the base. It's simpler to implement but I'm not a big fan of this solution because it adds little value to what we have already, apart from different cosmetic feel

- yet another issue is the size of the bases. the way KSP saves ships will pretty much always make is so parts of the base end up partially buried in the ground. I haven't found a way around that, and my observations from other mods indicate that a solution might not exist. I am not very experienced however so any suggestions are more than welcome

- I would like to keep this mod as pluginless and plugin independent as possible. There are two main reasons - first I'm not good at making plugins yet, and second plugins need to be updated every time the game is updated. Part updates that use stock modules need to be updated only when the engine changes or the stock modules change significantly. This alone makes the mod way more compatible. That said, I'm beginning to think that keeping it pluginless is impossible

I have probably forgotten about something important to mention... Anyway development is on its way, but slightly slower due to real life obligations.

 

 

5 hours ago, Julie said:

Are there any way to add trees and some sort of greenery, to your domes? Awesome mod, but looks a bit sterile and lifeless. Googling just gives me a bunch of things talking about "tech trees" or weather or not they can see trees, on kerbal. (I see none there either, with scattering on 100%)

But yeah... trees in the dome need to be a thing,  I think. :-) 

That's a great idea. Totally adding this to my to do list. Thanks!