Development Update for Consoles!

[ggargioni]

10 minutes ago, Swacer said:

How expensive it is for an update is entirely irrelevant to a customer.  Maybe had Squad provided the customer with a finished game originally, they wouldn't need to concern themselves with the cost of an update.

I agree. I´ve played the Game entirely and still play it.

Issues that should not happen:

(Save Corrupt 1) if saving more than 4 vessels in VAB will probably (more than 80%) corrupt your file - you lose the save.

(Save Corrupt 2) if you have more than 3 stations at the same time flying in the kerbal system will probably (more than 80%) corrupt your file - you lose the save.

(Freeze 1) constantly VAB freezes the joystick. This is anoying. (PS4) Turn around is to logout PS4 User and reenter game. This is some incompatibility with consoles.

(Trophy) The Kerbal Fly By trophy is broken - NO ONE have this trophy yet and should be easy. ALL THE OTHER trophyes are OK. 

The other stuff like frame rate, v1.2 assets, mods etc, okay - we know that this is like upgrades.

Edited March 31, 2017 by ggargioni

[AlamoVampire]

@Warzouz Im sorry but you are mistaken. What I listed, with exception on the gpu point, is fact, not justification and is 100% relevant to customers.

I honestly forget who said it or where I heard it, but: "Facts are what they are, not what we wish them or want them to be. They simply tell us what is and whats true."

Facts are facts, not justifications. Customers need to know this, understand this and accept it and stay or reject it as unacceptable and leave. Going around in circles solves nothing.

[AlamoVampire]

@DoctorDavinci First, Ghost in the Shell is a good movie, a fun watch. Second, I used it as an example as I had just watched it and safely can bet it had a budget well past $100m same as major AAA game titles, so thats the link  

@cfds Never said it excuses anything. What it does say is: Squad is not a AAA game house with a huge budget, and thus it takes far longer to do get to that level of perfection. Further the company doing the port is working more than just KSP.

If its Blitworks doing the port (i keep seeing their name, but i thought it was flying tiger..) they do solid work. I play Rebel Galaxy by Double Damage which was ported to PS4 by Blitworks and it works beautifully. 

 

[chimpbone]

I think that the console players are just looking for some more info here. As another user already said, Blitworks is just telling us to ask SQUAD about the update.

Having people who don't work for SQUAD making excuses for why the game we paid for isn't working properly isn't helping, and it just creates these petty arguments. If you are going to claim that updates for consoles cost 5 figures or that you know SQUAD's budget, some sources would be nice for these so called "facts".

Here is an actual fact: there are plenty of other PC games that port to console. How much time, resources, and money go into that vary drastically. Since SQUAD and Blitworks would be the only ones who really know these details, and since Blitworks just tells us to ask SQUAD anytime they are asked about the update, it seems that we are waiting on SQUAD to give us more info. This is the same situation we have been in for 9 months. 

Since SQUAD doesn't give us updates about progress on the console version very often, except for an occasional mention in the devnotes, it is understandable that people who have paid full price for a game that doesn't work properly are growing impatient and feeling ignored. The class action comments are ridiculous, but I understand their frustration. 

 

[James M]

5 hours ago, chimpbone said:

I think that the console players are just looking for some more info here. As another user already said, Blitworks is just telling us to ask SQUAD about the update.

I just wanna know when I can play the game again. I could care less how long it'll "probably" take but "early this year" is a little broad for me especially when not true. I'd be satisfied if they'd just say "The update won't be this year!" and then surprise us by giving it to us early. XD

[Warzouz]

14 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

@Warzouz Im sorry but you are mistaken. What I listed, with exception on the gpu point, is fact, not justification and is 100% relevant to customers.

I honestly forget who said it or where I heard it, but: "Facts are what they are, not what we wish them or want them to be. They simply tell us what is and whats true."

Facts are facts, not justifications. Customers need to know this, understand this and accept it and stay or reject it as unacceptable and leave. Going around in circles solves nothing.

"I bought a car, it's only turning right"

"Understand this : it's very hard for a company to build a car that turn right and left. To turn left, just turn right 3 times. Deal with it"

Would you really accept that justification ?

The problem with "accepting that or leave" is it wasn't written on the product before you start playing, and you don't get refunded. I got a lot of products that didn't worked as I expected (and even just disliked it). I nearly always been refunded and that's totally normal.

 

Customer don't need to know anything about internal development ant technical issues ! Where have you imagined that ! That wasn't written on the game advertising, or I misread something ? I was a developer for years, and now I work with developers, you would never accept to justify the poor quality of my work by "you know technologies works poorly together, customer have to know that and deal with it ! I would even be ashamed of even thinking it.

The facts are Squad (customers don't even care about who did the real job) sold a game that was very very poor quality on console.

 

I hope that the incoming console patch will greatly improve the game quality.

 

 

 

[Deddly]

The latest devnotes mentioned that it's looking good so far.

@Warzouz some console players did indeed get refunded by the store they purchased the game from.

[Broke dead dogg]

21 minutes ago, Deddly said:

The latest devnotes mentioned that it's looking good so far.

@Warzouz some console players did indeed get refunded by the store they purchased the game from.

Wow! , you almost quoted verbatim the console content of ksp weekly this week!

I suspect the only console players to receive a refund complained within a few days of purchasing the game, and if we had all done that, the game might have been dropped completely

But after reading though many of the justifiably salty comments on this thread, I'd say the biggest (initial) mistake squad/FTE made was releasing the game as finished product.

Look at elite dangerous (it's the only one i know anything about). That game was initially released on the xbone game preview programme (ggp) at a reduced price of £21.99 with the warning that it was a game in development and may or may not change in the future, and that you purchased at your own risk. Initially the game was buggy as hell, constantly freezing and buzz crashing and features being unavailable, but the majority of player excepted it and waited patiently and they were rewarded for their patients eventually.

Squad/blitworks could learn a lot from frontiers example of how to deal with us console players

 

[mikey117]

well I can understand peoples frustration, and for a while ,I also felt like we were being completely ignored. However yes they may have gone quiet again on progress reports, but firing FT and hiring blitworks is a major step, which we should be thankful for, as I'm sure Squad would have lost a lot of money with this decision.

I dont want to get bogged down with going in circles with the blame game and being frustarated. I personally am trying to be positive about it . (although I will say could have solved alot of anger and gathered a more supportive console fanbase, if it had been released on the early access program)

so now I've said my piece what I really want answered is with this being a new port will it be possible to use our old save file?/even just craft files.

I know this is probably asking alot but if someone from squad could give us an update /answer as to how likely this will be. Before they release the new port.

the main reason I ask is I am currently building a station around kerbin. Therefore dont want to put too much more effort and time building it if I am going to lose it and my 15T reusable lifter.(took a while to get it working )

Anyway I'm really curious to see how much the new port can improve the game. as I am about half way through my station build and its not looking good (frame rate is already dropping) not sure if its the game/ console that is struggling.

tbh I really dont think we will be able to enjoy ksp at its best until maybe the Scorpio comes out.

Edited April 1, 2017 by mikey117
missing text

[Deddly]

@mikey117, well I don't know for sure, but if it's applied as an update to the game, I would expect your saves to be carried over after the update. But if there's  way to back the save up, I think that would be wise. 

The update will also include all the significant performance increases that came with 1.2, so I think there is a lot to look forward to

[Broke dead dogg]

5 hours ago, mikey117 said:

 

so now I've said my piece what I really want answered is with this being a new port will it be possible to use our old save file?/even just craft files.

 

I'm sure i read somewhere that this will be the case, though i cant find it now

5 hours ago, mikey117 said:

 

tbh I really dont think we will be able to enjoy ksp at its best until maybe the Scorpio comes out.

That's assuming its ported to the scorpio

[chimpbone]

6 hours ago, mikey117 said:

so now I've said my piece what I really want answered is with this being a new port will it be possible to use our old save file?

It is highly unlikely that our corrupted saves will work with 1.2 when it comes out. Blitworks is porting 1.2 from scratch, not as an update to 1.1.3. They are not working off of anything that FTE did, so I do not see how they would be compatible. I wouldn't get your hopes up. 

[0111narwhalz]

The PC iteration includes a process to update old save files. Ideally, the new console version will have the same.

[chimpbone]

9 minutes ago, 0111narwhalz said:

The PC iteration includes a process to update old save files. Ideally, the new console version will have the same.

That does sound ideal, but I don't think that's going to happen. Console players are dealing with corrupted save issues with the Flying Tiger port that weren't present on PC. To my understanding, Blitworks is not working on fixing corrupted saves from Flying Tiger's port, but rather just porting 1.2. The PC iterations probably work different because Squad is actually working on those themselves. 

I could be wrong here. I would be happily surprised if our saves will carry over, but I'm not holding my breath. Squad doesn't communicate too well with us console players, and they have taken a real hands-off approach to the console version. We have still not been told if the new 'Making History' expansion will ever be coming to console. They don't answer us when we ask questions and we are just left to speculate. 

I'm not even sure what save anybody on console would really want to carry over anyway. I plan on starting a whole new career and building all new crafts with antennae and such.  

[Red Iron Crown]

1 hour ago, chimpbone said:

They don't answer us when we ask questions and we are just left to speculate.

That particular behavior is not really specific to the console versions, the PC players get largely the same thing.

[ggargioni]

I do wish they release the update soon, lost another game again last night - corrupted file. I takes a minute to write a comment to the community, but it would take years to regain respect from a failure. Sad

Edited April 1, 2017 by ggargioni

[chimpbone]

1 hour ago, Red Iron Crown said:

That particular behavior is not really specific to the console versions, the PC players get largely the same thing.

To be fair, us console players have had it extra bad. I mean, I have been around here long enough to know that Squad communicates more with the PC modding community than it does with the console players. Squad is already on 1.3 for PC users, with no word of if or when that might come to console as well. Please don't pretend like PC users get ignored as much as we do. We have had a broken game for 9 months now after all. Our whole experience with KSP and Squad has been negative. We have seen plenty of communication and plenty of updates between Squad and PC players in that time. The general feeling has been that Squad and a lot of the community look upon us console players with some sort of contempt. 

 

 

[Deddly]

Sorry if that's how we come accross, @chimpbone. The rest of us want nothing more than for the console version to be properly fixed. We love the game, after all, and the fact that a large portion of our community isn't enjoying it as it should be is just such a terrible shame. If I could sacrifice an update so you could get it sooner, believe me I would do it.

[jrodriguez]

On 31/3/2017 at 2:31 AM, AlamoVampire said:

@yingyangaje90

1. KSP is a physics game driven by GPU more than CPU. 

 

You are wrong here. The main bottleneck for KSP is the CPU. 

[chimpbone]

1 minute ago, Deddly said:

Sorry if that's how we come accross, @chimpbone. The rest of us want nothing more than for the console version to be properly fixed. We love the game, after all, and the fact that a large portion of our community isn't enjoying it as it should be is just such a terrible shame. If I could sacrifice an update so you could get it sooner, believe me I would do it.

That's nice of you to say. It's not everyone that comes across that way certainly. I am sure that things will be much better when 1.2 finally drops. With the game in it's current state on console though, it is hard if not impossible for us to participate in a lot of the community challenges and events.

Perhaps we could start some console challenges in the mean time. I am still able to do certain stuff on the console version, like build an ISS replica, or create Apollo type missions. Can still build SSTO's. Anything past Minmus and I usually have issues though. Would anyone even be interested in console challenges?

[Renegade Gray]

So has the console community mostly nailed down that as long as we stay in the Kerbin system our save files are safer?

[AlamoVampire]

1 hour ago, jrodriguez said:

You are wrong here. The main bottleneck for KSP is the CPU. 

To be fair, had you read my later posts concerning point 1, I clearly stated, and shall again: I either misremembered what I read or read something wrong on that point. I then conceded it to the first person who corrected it.

Now <takes a deep calming breath> @Warzouz Please understand me. You think my statements are justifications. They are emphatically not. They are truth, they are fact. Allow me to reiterate:

Fact: Squad is a SMALL operation that (not sure if still connected to the parent corp) at its start when Felipe started KSP was a Commercial Advertising Company, most likely still is, that makes games on the side or in a newly formed subdivision. They run on a microscopic budget with a small team for a game house. Especially when compared to titans like Square-Enix, EA, DICE, Microsoft etc. 

Fact: Blitworks or Flying Tiger (still unclear on who is porting) is working multiple projects.

Fact: Porting is time intensive, expensive, complicated. 

Fact: KSP is being translated (every aspect of that word applies) to multiple languages, both in terms of what is spoken by us humans and computer devices. This takes time. 

Fact: this causes bugs in the extreme. A fix for a bug on PC may break something for both XB1 AND PS4. This isn't easy even when you do like say Square-Enix and FFXIV for XB1, PS4, PC AND iOS on MAC, and they have tremendous amounts of money. Squad doesn't. The company doing the port doesn't in all likely hood. 

This list can go on ad infinitum but, the bottom line?

Its a slow, expensive, complicated process. Either accept it or don't. I have said all I am willing to say on this.

[LegendaryAce]

1 hour ago, Renegade Gray said:

So has the console community mostly nailed down that as long as we stay in the Kerbin system our save files are safer?

That's odd then. I'm playing on the Xbox One version, and I recently sent a probe swarm to the Jool system to get atmospheric and surface readings from all of the moons. It worked beautifully, and got over 8,000 science from the mission. 

On a side note, my VAB and SPH have over 50 craft saved, including an XB-70 with over 230 parts. Aside from high lag when flying at high speed, I don't experience crashes. If anyone wants proof, I'll upload images tonight.

[ggargioni]

1 minute ago, LegendaryAce said:

That's odd then. I'm playing on the Xbox One version, and I recently sent a probe swarm to the Jool system to get atmospheric and surface readings from all of the moons. It worked beautifully, and got over 8,000 science from the mission. 

On a side note, my VAB and SPH have over 50 craft saved, including an XB-70 with over 230 parts. Aside from high lag when flying at high speed, I don't experience crashes. If anyone wants proof, I'll upload images tonight.

Oh mannn!! What a dream that is. For me in PS4 i did on career mode only saving on usb flashdrive every 4h. No saves on VAB and no more than 2 vessels flying. Lots of crashes and lots of corrupted saves. If im not mistake, xbox had an update after game release, we at PS4 had none. 

[Renegade Gray]

37 minutes ago, LegendaryAce said:

That's odd then. I'm playing on the Xbox One version, and I recently sent a probe swarm to the Jool system to get atmospheric and surface readings from all of the moons. It worked beautifully, and got over 8,000 science from the mission. 

On a side note, my VAB and SPH have over 50 craft saved, including an XB-70 with over 230 parts. Aside from high lag when flying at high speed, I don't experience crashes. If anyone wants proof, I'll upload images tonight.

I was more asking a question than making a statement. I haven't played in several months, and I'm trying to get a feel for what I should be doing to avoid getting my saves wiped out (the reason I left in the first place).