Cant build good rockets?

[/not/pol/]

Started a new career save and i cant make any good early game rockets, the first rocket that actually got to orbit was way to large for an early game rocket(was not really early game either, mid way through the stock tech tree) and was over powered and looked ultra-ugly(see pic in snip/spoiler)

 

*Snip*

Spoiler

 

[Clockwork13]

That rocket overall looks fine for me. Part of it may be that become proficient at launching rockets takes a bit of practice, Also, adding a stage of solid fuel boosters that decouple before your liquid fuel boosters fire can also give you a lot of extra fuel for once you get into space.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Clockwork13

[/not/pol/]

1 minute ago, Clockwork13 said:

That rocket overall looks fine for me. Part of it may be that become proficient at launching rockets takes a bit of practice, Also, adding a stage of solid fuel boosters that decouple before your liquid fuel boosters fire can also give you a lot of extra fuel for once you get into space.

its not proficiency, i have over 1000 hours in, and that's not including when i launched it from outside steam. just early game seems to take a lot longer to get to orbit first. and i cant get the overall size of the rocket down, it should not take a level 2 Launchpad/VAB To breach orbit.

[Superfluous J]

First impression: Way too many engines. What's the TWR of that beast? You can estimate it by looking at the G meter when you launch.

I made a rocket as close as I could to yours (though I can't really tell what's going on under that FL-T100 fuel tank) and it has a TWR of 2.36, or about 1g too much.

Without changing the ship much, I'd ditch the thuds and simplify the upper stage to a FL-T200 fuel tank and a Terrier under the Science Jr instead of... whatever you have That gives you over 4000 m/s in just the first stage and a still-too-high TWR off the pad, but if you're not comfortable making a super-efficient gravity turn that should get your ship to orbit. That first stage has more than enough beef to get the whole ship into orbit if flown well.

A much more reasonable design would ditch the 2.5 meter parts and use - say - a single Reliant under a pair of FL-T800s and fins with control authority. Say the Delta Deluxe. Even with a payload with 2 mystery goos and 2 science jrs, it's got almost 4000m/s all told (not just in the first stage) so a well-flown gravity turn should reach orbit no problem. But not much more than that. I'd not try to go to Mun for example
 

Spoiler

 

 

EDIT: I just test flew that rocket and got an 87km apoapsis on the first stage. Rode it up and decoupled in space (to keep it pointing forward in atmosphere) and then used the 2nd stage to reach orbit. I got an 87x79km orbit with about 1/3 of the FL-T200 tank left.

Edited January 13, 2017 by 5thHorseman

[Mikki]

Uglyness is no scale in KSP. A ugly rocket can have huge advances over sleek ones... 

[Reactordrone]

I'd say your stage balance is a little off. A small increase in the fuel on the upper stage would let you shrink that first stage down significantly. You usually want a lower stage to be about double the mass of the stages above it.

[Streetwind]

The easiest early rocket to orbit requires just 10 points of science... five for the Swivel and LFO tanks required to get it up there, and five for the decoupler required to bring the Kerbal back down again. No facility upgrades are necessary (but I do recommend a level 2 astronaut complex so you can grab an EVA report or three).

1x Mk16 Parachute
1x Mk1 Command Pod (remove monoprop)
1x TR-18A Stack Decoupler
15x FL-T100 Fuel Tank
1x LV-T45 'Swivel' Engine

Voila, baby's first SSTO You can add one or two more fuel tanks for a bit of extra margins, though no more than that or it becomes too heavy at liftoff. But even as it is it has enough fuel to reach a 75x75 km orbit and then deorbit the pod again. Provided you fly it well, especially in regards to throttle management in the second half of the ascent.

If you're interested in getting a bit more analytical about optimal rocket stage construction, I have this post on the topic of mass fractions that I like to link on occasions like this.

[The Flying Kerbal]

3 hours ago, Reactordrone said:

You usually want a lower stage to be about double the mass of the stages above it.

I didn't know this... one of the most useful and informative single sentences I've seen in a forum in a very long time.

Edited January 13, 2017 by The Flying Kerbal

[Sharpy]

7 hours ago, /not/pol/ said:

Started a new career save and i cant make any good early game rockets, the first rocket that actually got to orbit was way to large for an early game rocket(was not really early game either, mid way through the stock tech tree) and was over powered and looked ultra-ugly(see pic in snip/spoiler)

 

 

Where are your stages?! Why are you building SSTO?! You won't make SSTO with early career parts!

This one is capable of orbit even before unlocking Terrier engine and medium tank.

One node later you can do Mun and Minmus flybys; also Minmus landing (but not return).

Without unlocking more nodes, but upgrading the launchpad (max mass)you'll be perfectly capable of Minmus landing and return, with a design quite similar to above but adding a couple BACC Thumper SRBs to get you to orbit before you need to switch to LF.

 

[NSEP]

Every one CAN build a proper rocket, some just dont know HOW. I recommend watching some more Scott Manley.

[/not/pol/]

5 hours ago, NSEP said:

Every one CAN build a proper rocket, some just dont know HOW. I recommend watching some more Scott Manley.

Watching who?jkjk

Anyways. thanks for the tips. 1000(+18) hours does not come with alot of forced experience other then the basics of getting out of the Kerbin/Munar system.. and landing on the mun/minmus* then again taking a few months break does mess things up a bit.

Edited January 13, 2017 by /not/pol/
added tibit

[MaxxQ]

2 minutes ago, /not/pol/ said:

Watching who?

Scott Manley... watch his videos on YouTube.  Some may be outdated (made with older versions of the game), but they're still relevant

[/not/pol/]

11 minutes ago, MaxxQ said:

Scott Manley... watch his videos on YouTube.  Some may be outdated (made with older versions of the game), but they're still relevant

Lol, Everyone here knows who scott manley is.

Macros are allowed right?

Edited January 13, 2017 by /not/pol/

[Streetwind]

11 minutes ago, /not/pol/ said:

Macros are allowed right?

They are actually not, no. See Guidelines, section 2.3a and 2.3c.

That said, that rule specifically aims to counter low-effort, zero-content posting/spamming. No one's going to hit you over the head for a one-time minor misstep like this one

Edited January 13, 2017 by Streetwind

[/not/pol/]

Lol.

[Snark]

Moving to Gameplay Questions.

[/not/pol/]

Rocket shown in the pic above is ULTRA Op, first rocket to get to orbit is also able to get a flyby mission AND probe to the mun.

[Benjamin Kerman]

A simple rocket that has enough dV to get to orbit is as follows:

Mk16 Parachute

Mk1 Capsule

Heatsheild

decoupler

FL-T400 fuel tank

Terrier engine

decoupler

4x FL-T400 fuel tank

Swivel

The TWR is 1.19, 1.16 if science interments are added. dV is somewhere around 4000 m/s. 

Edited January 13, 2017 by Benjamin Kerman

[Spricigo]

 

What kind of early design you did? Show some and people will be able to point the problems and how to improve. Also, if you not done yet, get something to help you with deltaV and TWR (if you have something against installing mods something like this  or this will do) .

In early game, my usual strategy its to gather some science around KSC (and, because a mod ,automagicaly from KSC biomes) , while doing some part test for funds. When I finally go orbital , I do with hammers, swivel, FL-T400 and Terrier in a over-engineered combination (similar design to @5thHorseman's with a couple of hammer in the 1st stage) because I have so much funds anyway. So I'm probably not the best people to talk about efficiency, but I know you can be effective without 2,5 parts and 5+engines/stage.

About Thud: Sorry for the little derail but someone please tell me what its the point of Thuds. Its the only stock engine I cant figure out what niche its supposed to fill.

[Benjamin Kerman]

31 minutes ago, Spricigo said:

About Thud: Sorry for the little derail but someone please tell me what its the point of Thuds. Its the only stock engine I cant figure out what niche its supposed to fill.

For me, the thud is just used for a little extra thrust at launch. I put them on a radial decoupler and detach them partway through the stage. 

[Kerbal Fried Chicken]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Kerman said:

A simple rocket that has enough dV to get to orbit is as follows:

.......

Heatsheild

My experience has been that the early tier to orbit shots do not need a heat shield. save the extra weight by ditching it.

[Benjamin Kerman]

23 minutes ago, Kerbal Fried Chicken said:

My experience has been that the early tier to orbit shots do not need a heat shield. save the extra weight by ditching it.

Yeah, you don't really need the heat shield in normal mode. The only problem is if you are using deadly reentry, in which case the heat shield is absolutely nessesary. You can tweak the ablator down to 20 units to save weight. 

[Kerbal Fried Chicken]

4 minutes ago, Benjamin Kerman said:

You can tweak the ablator down to 20 units to save weight. 

 

Yup. Once I do need it (whether weight or re-entry settings cause it) the initial 200 (I think?) is still way too high in the early tiers.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Kerbal Fried Chicken
spelling

[Kerbinchaser]

First, add stages. Like someone said before, an SSTO is not a good idea. A 3 stage rocket would be good enough. 

First stage: Launch vehicle.

Second stage: Insertion stage.

Third stage: Orbital stage. 

I got to go for now. Good luck!

[DD_bwest]

lotsa good info in here.  stage that beast is probably the best.  your hauling way to much useless weight to orbit otherwise.   getting to orbit can be done on the second launch of career.  you just need the swivel and decouplers.

also the twr is way higher than what is needed