Better KSC

[eagle92lightning]

Okay I have a space plane that can't takeoff at the current runway length so how bout a longer, MUCH longer runway?

[Gaarst]

If your plane can't take off a 2.5km runway, the problem is not the runway...

[eagle92lightning]

1 minute ago, Gaarst said:

If your plane can't take off a 2.5km runway, the problem is not the runway...

It a big plane I can't help I like big planes and plus it uses dynawing wings which I think are only meant for gliding... wait that might be the problem

[Gaarst]

6 minutes ago, eagle92lightning said:

It a big plane I can't help I like big planes and plus it uses dynawing wings which I think are only meant for gliding... wait that might be the problem

We can try to help you if you put pictures of your craft.

Some general tips:

• if you can't lift the nose move the rear landing gear closer to the CoM (to act as a fulcrum);
• if you can't go fast enough, consider using larger engines or RATO if your plane is meant to take off only once;
• if you lack low speed lift, try increasing your wings incidence by a few degrees so they generate more lift at low AoA.

[eagle92lightning]

2 minutes ago, Gaarst said:

We can try to help you if you put pictures of your craft.

Some general tips:

• if you can't lift the nose move the rear landing gear closer to the CoM (to act as a fulcrum);
• if you can't go fast enough, consider using larger engines or RATO if your plane is meant to take off only once;
• if you lack low speed lift, try increasing your wings incidence by a few degrees so they generate more lift at low AoA.

Unfortunately I can't put up pictures because... a: I don't have any screenshots of it b: I don't how to put up pictures from like the documents or from the memory if you could tell me how I might be able to get up so pics of it.

[tg626]

1. F1 in game
2. Upload image to imgur.com
3. Get bbcode link from imgur
4. Post bbcode link here

or

http://bfy.tw/A5wC

Edited February 15, 2017 by tg626

[Enceos]

@eagle92lightning If you plane is smaller than this:

Then there's definitely something with your plane.

 

P.S. make sure your rear landing gear is near the CoM.

[eagle92lightning]

33 minutes ago, Enceos said:

@eagle92lightning If you plane is smaller than this:

Then there's definitely something with your plane.

 

P.S. make sure your rear landing gear is near the CoM.

It is about the same in length but smaller wing span and the landing gear is right under the center of mass

[Enceos]

@eagle92lightning

Then your plane might have these problems:

- low lift, needs more wing surfaces

- low control authority, needs more elevons

- low engine thrust, needs more engines

[Tex_NL]

The only thing longer that the runway is this same old endless discussion. There are dozens of this very same issue all over the forum.

I have to agree with @Gaarst. The runway is not the problem. Your plane is.

@Enceos
You're forgetting improper wheel placement.

[Enceos]

@Tex_NL yeah?

[eagle92lightning]

2 minutes ago, Enceos said:

@eagle92lightning

Then your plane might have these problems:

- low lift, needs more wing surfaces

- low control authority, needs more elevons

- low engine thrust, needs more engines

I plan on trying a RATO stage along with the J-20 Panthers on afterburner

[Hotaru]

Honestly, I've always thought we could do with a longer runway. 2.5 kilometers--about 8200 feet--is short for a real-world runway. Plenty of real-world runways are well over 4 kilometers long and some are nearly 8 kilometers. The shuttle runway at the real KSC is 4.5 kilometers, and the longest dry lake runway at Edwards AFB is 12.7 kilometers.

And most of those are meant to accommodate normal, subsonic jetliners. Considering a lot of what takes off and lands on the KSC runway is massive hypersonic spaceplanes, asking for a runway big enough for an ordinary wide-body airliner seems perfectly reasonable.

PS. Yes, I know the runway is big relative to Kerbin, but the aircraft landing on it travel at speeds comparable to real ones.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Hotaru

[eagle92lightning]

Just now, Hotaru said:

Honestly, I've always thought we could do with a longer runway. 2.5 kilometers--about 8200 feet--is short for a real-world runway. Plenty of real-world runways are well over 4 kilometers long and some are nearly 8 kilometers. The shuttle runway at the real KSC is 4.5 kilometers, and the longest dry lake runway at Edwards AFB is 12.7 kilometers.

And most of those are meant to accommodate normal, subsonic jetliners. Considering a lot of what takes off and lands on the KSC runway is massive hypersonic spaceplanes, asking for a runway big enough for an ordinary wide-body airliner seems perfectly reasonable.

The runway at Kennedy is a lot longer and there is a 4 MILE runway somewhere in the world.

[adsii1970]

I'd like to see the old KSC site made usable... Or at least have a runway.

[razark]

Huge dry lakebed in the desert would be good.

[eagle92lightning]

Just now, razark said:

Huge dry lakebed in the desert would be good.

Yeah. I plan on using the area around he ksp to launch if the RATO doesn't work.

[OrbitalBuzzsaw]

1 hour ago, Hotaru said:

Honestly, I've always thought we could do with a longer runway. 2.5 kilometers--about 8200 feet--is short for a real-world runway. Plenty of real-world runways are well over 4 kilometers long and some are nearly 8 kilometers. The shuttle runway at the real KSC is 4.5 kilometers, and the longest dry lake runway at Edwards AFB is 12.7 kilometers.

And most of those are meant to accommodate normal, subsonic jetliners. Considering a lot of what takes off and lands on the KSC runway is massive hypersonic spaceplanes, asking for a runway big enough for an ordinary wide-body airliner seems perfectly reasonable.

PS. Yes, I know the runway is big relative to Kerbin, but the aircraft landing on it travel at speeds comparable to real ones.

Yeah, and we also need a 2nd runway.

[DarkOwl57]

31 minutes ago, OrbitalBuzzsaw said:

Yeah, and we also need a 2nd runway.

Yeah; make it sorta like a real airport. I suggest 4 or 5 more runways; That way, when you're writing a story, you could write something like "Tower, this is liner 3498, requesting takeoff from [insert runway # here]"

[adsii1970]

41 minutes ago, DarkOwl57 said:

Yeah; make it sorta like a real airport. I suggest 4 or 5 more runways; That way, when you're writing a story, you could write something like "Tower, this is liner 3498, requesting takeoff from [insert runway # here]"

The object of the game is to launch crap into space. The huge collection of fan fiction based on the game should never dictate what features are added to the game.

 

[eagle92lightning]

1 minute ago, adsii1970 said:

The object of the game is to launch crap into space. The huge collection of fan fiction based on the game should never dictate what features are added to the game.

 

Completely agree but a specialized landing strip would be nice.

[DarkOwl57]

7 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

The object of the game is to launch crap into space. The huge collection of fan fiction based on the game should never dictate what features are added to the game.

 

Okay....... But maybe that's why people make things called mods. You might have heard of them. And while the PURPOSE of the game is to "Launch crap into space", the game has (at least for me) turned into "Just do what's fun."

Now I never said Squad should add it to the game; I was thinking this was like a mod suggestion or something.

 

[adsii1970]

16 minutes ago, DarkOwl57 said:

Okay....... But maybe that's why people make things called mods. You might have heard of them. And while the PURPOSE of the game is to "Launch crap into space", the game has (at least for me) turned into "Just do what's fun."

Now I never said Squad should add it to the game; I was thinking this was like a mod suggestion or something.

 

Geesh... get snarky why don't you.

Yes, that is what mods are for, but to have Squad add more runways to the KSC for the purpose of creating a "realistic airport" has actually been handled by a mod (Kerbal Konstructs + Kerbinside).

The way I read the OP was these are things people want Squad to add to the game in default mode, not in mod form...

 

[KerikBalm]

2 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

I'd like to see the old KSC site made usable... Or at least have a runway.

It is sort of usable... While it doesn't have a runway structure, it does have a sizeable amount of perfectly flat land.

As for recovery purposes in career mode, it is usable. You get 98% recovery at KSC2, and if you can get your craft to the old launchpad, you get 100% recovery (if it had a runway that we could get 100% recovery on, that would be great).

So I made it "usable" in one of my careers by flying over a mining and fuel rig with the mk3 cargoplane shown above... then, rather than fly it back, I taxi'd it to the launch pad and recovered at 100%.

Any future craft could then land there and get refueled, or just recover for 98% funds.

Anyway... a longer runway structure would have issues given the size of kerbin - one alreayd notices the rolling of planes on the runway because its perfectly flat, and kerbin curves enough over that distance for the deviation to be noticeable.

That said... on my mod planet, I did add an ancient runway feature... but its surface curves with the planet's curvature. I made it quite big as some versions had quite high landing speeds (roughly same landing speeds as on Duna)

 

Spoiler

It can be a bit hard to make out here, but that was intended

earlier version, very exaggerated terrain features to mark it

coming in fast:

View from higher up:

Another elevated view

The sizeable drop off at one end of the runway:

Last aerial view shot:

 

Anyway, the KSC runway is perfectly fine given the way KSP aircraft handle, there must be a problem in your design

[eagle92lightning]

2 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

It is sort of usable... While it doesn't have a runway structure, it does have a sizeable amount of perfectly flat land.

As for recovery purposes in career mode, it is usable. You get 98% recovery at KSC2, and if you can get your craft to the old launchpad, you get 100% recovery (if it had a runway that we could get 100% recovery on, that would be great).

So I made it "usable" in one of my careers by flying over a mining and fuel rig with the mk3 cargoplane shown above... then, rather than fly it back, I taxi'd it to the launch pad and recovered at 100%.

Any future craft could then land there and get refueled, or just recover for 98% funds.

Anyway... a longer runway structure would have issues given the size of kerbin - one alreayd notices the rolling of planes on the runway because its perfectly flat, and kerbin curves enough over that distance for the deviation to be noticeable.

That said... on my mod planet, I did add an ancient runway feature... but its surface curves with the planet's curvature. I made it quite big as some versions had quite high landing speeds (roughly same landing speeds as on Duna)

 

  Hide contents

It can be a bit hard to make out here, but that was intended

earlier version, very exaggerated terrain features to mark it

coming in fast:

View from higher up:

Another elevated view

The sizeable drop off at one end of the runway:

Last aerial view shot:

 

Anyway, the KSC runway is perfectly fine given the way KSP aircraft handle, there must be a problem in your design

Actually no. it is a central mk3 with a mk2 jet pod on each side with a mk3 engine mouby on the rear of mk3 core with a skipper on the back of it. On the jet pods there is a mk2 to two mk1 adapters on the front and back on the front one there is shock cone intakes on the back one there is j20 panthers. The wings are the exact same design as the dynawing. And the back gear are directly under the center of mass. The problem is that it can't get up to speed on a 2.5km runway.