totm nov 2023 SpaceX Discussion Thread

[SunlitZelkova]

Would it be possible to launch a modified Crew Dragon on a modified Starship too?

This would eliminate the very bad possibilities of failing to perform a propulsive landing with crew during normal EDL, and of course Crew Starship will need to/should have some abort modes anyways during the early part of launch. This Starship will do propulsive landing anyways as it is still recoverable, so an abort mode is retained despite the normal Crew Dragon LES not being there.

And then afterwards, if there is going to be some potential failure with the Starship upper stage during the latter part of launch, wouldn't that just doom the crew on a normal Crew Starship anyways? And therefore there is no loss in losing the LES with this hypothetical new Crew Dragon variant.

IIRC, there are some ESA and Roscosmos studies stating that the amount of volume a single human needs in a spacecraft makes cramming 100 people in a Starship unfeasible anyways, and people in this forum then went on to calculate something like a 17-25 possible max crew for Starship. However, apart from SpaceX's Mars City, no one is going to require this many crew on a single flight (unless Starship has the potential to act as a "space bus" travelling between multiple, perhaps co-orbited, commercial space stations) and thus SpaceX will lose money on many launches. Thus using Crew Dragon might be more economical/efficient for commercial space demands in the near future (2030-2040, when Starship would be safe enough to carry crew).

Launching Crew Dragon would eliminate consumer concerns over propulsive landing and save money for SpaceX, both by not needing to develop a new life support system inherent* to Starship and reusing Crew Dragon technology.

This could also open up the serious possibility of launching Orion on Starship. NASA keeps their "traditional and safe" capsule, with no propulsive landing, and maintains billion dollar contracts through it, but without the need for SLS. Launch escape situation is the same as described above.

*17-25 crew would be desirable for SpaceX's Mars City, however, it would probably be better to develop that as a sort of "plug-in" module that could be carried by a Cargo Starship with minimal modifications, rather than integrated into a new Starship variant.

Apologies if this ends up coming off like a D.C. NASA manager in the early 70s spit-balling crazy money saving design parameter ideas to potential Space Shuttle contractors 

Actually, re-reading this, my thoughts regarding abort in the latter stage of flight really do sound like the justification for no LES on the Space Shuttle. There are major differences between Shuttle and Starship however, so I think the risk is far lower and thus although my ideas sound eerily familiar, they are reasonable.

[Cuky]

Just stumbled up on this article about workers exiting Spacex

https://wonderfulengineering.com/top-spacex-employees-are-leaving-the-company-as-pressure-mounts/

 

Among those that laft in past few weeks are people from 3 senior roles in the company

Quote

The employees that have left include VP of propulsion Will Heltsley, VP of mission and launch operations Lee Rosen, and senior director of mission and launch operations, Ricky Lim.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Cuky

[NFUN]

5 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Actually, wouldn't it be possible to launch Cargo Dragon inside of Cargo Starship? Which would be presumably cheaper than launching Cargo Dragon on Falcon 9.

And you could almost double Starship's mass to orbit doing that! 

[tater]

 

[Beccab]

Not too important I know, but this just appeared and it is truly impressive. It's lego Saturn V scale

https://bricksafe.com/pages/0rig0/starship--super-heavy

Edited November 26, 2021 by Beccab

[Lewie]

54 minutes ago, Beccab said:

Not too important I know, but this just appeared and it is truly impressive. It's lego Saturn V scale

https://bricksafe.com/pages/0rig0/starship--super-heavy

Holy moly...

Gotta build this, that loooks amazing!

[MKI]

1 hour ago, Beccab said:

Not too important I know, but this just appeared and it is truly impressive. It's lego Saturn V scale

Excuse me not important???

I almost woke up early for the "announcement" from LEGO Education for the SLS lego set Artimis "payload" announcement. If there was a stock Starship set I'd be down to buy it! I'd just worry about it becoming an outdated design real fast haha

[Beccab]

45 minutes ago, Lewie said:

Holy moly...

Gotta build this, that loooks amazing!

2 minutes ago, MKI said:

Excuse me not important???

I almost woke up early for the "announcement" from LEGO Education for the SLS lego set Artimis "payload" announcement. If there was a stock Starship set I'd be down to buy it! I'd just worry about it becoming an outdated design real fast haha

 The creator also said it's over 3000 pieces! It's great

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

1 hour ago, Beccab said:

Not too important I know, but this just appeared and it is truly impressive. It's lego Saturn V scale

https://bricksafe.com/pages/0rig0/starship--super-heavy

You need to build an Integration Tower just to display it! 

... 

After looking at the site - they've done a lot to make it look 'silver' / metallic... But I'm pretty sure it's just white and gray 

[Elthy]

I want a Lego Starship one day, but ill wait for the design to freeze for a few years.

[cubinator]

17 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

You need to build an Integration Tower just to display it! 

... 

After looking at the site - they've done a lot to make it look 'silver' / metallic... But I'm pretty sure it's just white and gray 

I have my Saturn V displayed on the umbilical tower. It would be cool to add a silver Starship to the collection.

[Lewie]

wait...do you have to buy each individual piece? 

yikes!

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

9 minutes ago, cubinator said:

I have my Saturn V displayed on the umbilical tower. It would be cool to add a silver Starship to the collection.

Looks like you would have to spray paint it, then

[cubinator]

39 minutes ago, Lewie said:

wait...do you have to buy each individual piece? 

yikes!

Some people have been doing it by buying two of the Saturn V sets - apparently most of the right pieces are there (though obviously not silver).

[Kerb24]

There are silver Lego bricks like the ones shown in the image in the most recent space shuttle set.

Though nowhere near enough in one set for the entire starship and super heavy.

[Entropian]

5 hours ago, Beccab said:

Not too important I know, but this just appeared and it is truly impressive. It's lego Saturn V scale

I NEEEEED IT

[Lewie]

5 hours ago, cubinator said:

Some people have been doing it by buying two of the Saturn V sets - apparently most of the right pieces are there (though obviously not silver).

did somebody make some instructions online..or is it done be..I don't even know what to call it. (brain hurts...too much math today!)

Do people just manage to figure it out?

2 hours ago, Entropian said:

I NEEEEED IT

SAME!

[SunlitZelkova]

8 hours ago, MKI said:

Excuse me not important???

I almost woke up early for the "announcement" from LEGO Education for the SLS lego set Artimis "payload" announcement. If there was a stock Starship set I'd be down to buy it! I'd just worry about it becoming an outdated design real fast haha

I think the reason there is no Lego SLS so far is because Artemis I is uncrewed, which public interest-wise is a little lame. We might be able to expect one when Artemis II happens though. Artemis II will, to a certain extent, be like the 21st century's Apollo 8 in terms of PR effect (humans to the vicinity of the Moon for the first time in over half a century!), and also, if they sell a Lego SLS around when Artemis II happens, they can sell a Lego Lunar Starship when Artemis III happens, without having to make people simultaneously buy two 120-150 $ sets.

Assuming they are going to eventually make a Lunar Starship set (we have an Apollo Lunar Module after all) hopefully they would give you pieces to convert it into a Starship tanker too to complete the mission profile. Kind of like the 3-in-1 Creator sets.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

10 minutes ago, SunlitZelkova said:

I think the reason there is no Lego SLS so far is because Artemis I is uncrewed, which public interest-wise is a little lame. We might be able to expect one when Artemis II happens though. Artemis II will, to a certain extent, be like the 21st century's Apollo 8 in terms of PR effect (humans to the vicinity of the Moon for the first time in over half a century!), and also, if they sell a Lego SLS around when Artemis II happens, they can sell a Lego Lunar Starship when Artemis III happens, without having to make people simultaneously buy two 120-150 $ sets.

Assuming they are going to eventually make a Lunar Starship set (we have an Apollo Lunar Module after all) hopefully they would give you pieces to convert it into a Starship tanker too to complete the mission profile. Kind of like the 3-in-1 Creator sets.

Lego doesn't move fast enough.  They're very conservative.

[SunlitZelkova]

6 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Lego doesn't move fast enough.  They're very conservative.

They have three, possibly four years though. They seem to be capable of moving decently fast, the sets released in time for Star Wars: The Force Awakens were not nightmarish in quality*, nor have the Mandalorian and Bad Batch themed set(s)*, which were more or less released alongside those two shows (within 6 months of the show's premiere at least (although it could have been faster), I don't recall the exact dates).

I would be more worried about getting licensing from SpaceX. It could also require Boeing and Lockheed Martin's approval, depending on if the SLS were to have an Orion inside or not.

*It should be noted that this is based on just a few reviews and the opinions of Lego Star Wars fans could vary.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

5 minutes ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Star Wars:

Licensed and contracted products for both party's profit.  Star Wars is a Toy Franchise.

SpaceX should look into licensing... although for them, the 'profit stream' is likely chump change.  That said: good will is everything.

[SunlitZelkova]

13 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Licensed and contracted products for both party's profit.  Star Wars is a Toy Franchise.

SpaceX should look into licensing... although for them, the 'profit stream' is likely chump change.  That said: good will is everything.

I have not seen any evidence that Star Wars, Disney, or anyone for that matter have asked Lego to make sets for them. In the 2000s at least, it was Lego approaching them, but not the other way around.

If Lego was able to make a Lunar Module on time to release with the 50th anniversary of Apollo 11, certainly they can make an SLS on time to release with Artemis II and a Lunar Starship for Artemis III.

I recall that there are some aviation-tank-ship military related video games that actually do include things like aircraft built by Bell, Boeing, Lockheed, etc., without licensing. I'm not sure how that works for physical products though.

Edited November 27, 2021 by SunlitZelkova

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

10 minutes ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Lego was able to make a Lunar Module

Not sure how it would apply to Lego (foreign to US company) but generally speaking, images of Government stuff are 'free use'.  NASA might contract with some company to 'get stuff right' - but if some artist wants to sell pictures of a Lunar Lander in Venice, Italy, the US isn't going to claim copyright violation.

OTOH - private companies generally own the images of their products, absent some fair use rule.

[kerbiloid]

Lego modules would be very useful to assemble the orbital and lunar bases.

Especially if use duct tape for pressurization and insulation.

Let's hope, they won't stop.

[SunlitZelkova]

5 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Not sure how it would apply to Lego (foreign to US company) but generally speaking, images of Government stuff are 'free use'.  NASA might contract with some company to 'get stuff right' - but if some artist wants to sell pictures of a Lunar Lander in Venice, Italy, the US isn't going to claim copyright violation.

OTOH - private companies generally own the images of their products, absent some fair use rule.

Within this context, Apollo CM and LM are then products of North American Aviation (eventually became part of Boeing) and Grumman (now Northrop Grumman).

However, the CM and LM were both built specifically for NASA and utilized government operated testing facilities, and of course could not be launched without using government operated support facilities. So this might be where “government stuff” would be correct.

SLS and Orion, at least, would then also be government stuff. They cannot be launched without using government operated support facilities, like the VAB.

So at the very least, a Lego SLS set in time for Artemis II should be feasible. On the other hand, a Lego Lunar Starship would be more difficult due to licensing issues, as it is a truly privately built spacecraft.