totm nov 2023 SpaceX Discussion Thread

[Little 908]

Huh, so bigger rocket mean no bigger boom boom? xd

[Moritz Space]

Is it just me or were some engines still burning after MECO? Maybe that was why it didn't seperate.

[RCgothic]

I know we were expecting a flip, but looking at EA's stream the flip seemed to happen concurrent with something happening aft.

[Hannu2]

My first thought about 6 engines out during 2 minutes flight is pretty weak performance.  It also seemed that they ran on low throttle setting based on much lower acceleration than usual rockets. Do they have already improved versions on production and these were some older and more primitive versions? Otherwise they have much to do with Raptors.

[sevenperforce]

1 minute ago, Moritz Space said:

Is it just me or were some engines still burning after MECO? Maybe that was why it didn't seperate.

That was on purpose. MECO doesn’t actually shut down all of the engines; it only shuts down the outer ring and some of the internal engines remain firing to initiate the kick flip around. Here, it just kept flipping.

1 minute ago, Hannu2 said:

My first thought about 6 engines out during 2 minutes flight is pretty weak performance.  It also seemed that they ran on low throttle setting based on much lower acceleration than usual rockets. Do they have already improved versions on production and these were some older and more primitive versions? Otherwise they have much to do with Raptors.

Assuming that the goal was to reduce risk of failure to clear the pad, it makes sense that they would shut down engines immediately upon any sign of a problem so as to prevent possible chain losses from one engine to the next. So some of those shut downs could have involved nothing more than a momentary bad sensor reading.

Definitely giving some N1 vibes though.

[Spaceception]

The next few weeks/months are going to be interesting as they work out how to fix these problems for the next launch, the stages held together a little too well. I hope IFT-2 is this year though. The prize for the first methane fueled orbital rocket is still up for grabs.

[Shpaget]

6 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

it looks like the rocket was bending at the center.

That effect is due to rolling shutter of CMOS camera sensors.

3 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

That was on purpose. MECO doesn’t actually shut down all of the engines; it only shuts down the outer ring and some of the internal engines remain firing to initiate the kick flip around. Here, it just kept flipping.

In KSP, pretty much every time I tried to stage with the booster still firing, it ended exactly like this flight.

What is supposed to provide acceleration for Starship to pull away from the booster? The flip? Or were they planning on firing the second stage while still attached?

[lajoswinkler]

Well, that was fun.

[Hannu2]

6 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

That was on purpose. MECO doesn’t actually shut down all of the engines; it only shuts down the outer ring and some of the internal engines remain firing to initiate the kick flip around. Here, it just kept flipping.

Assuming that the goal was to reduce risk of failure to clear the pad, it makes sense that they would shut down engines immediately upon any sign of a problem so as to prevent possible chain losses from one engine to the next. So some of those shut downs could have involved nothing more than a momentary bad sensor reading.

Definitely giving some N1 vibes though.

Of course they lifted off form pad carefully. But usually rockets begin high acceleration when they open the throttle after max Q.  In about a minute or 1.5 speed goes from 1500 km/h (typical max Q) to 7000 km/h (typical MECO).  It seemed for me that they did not even try it with Starship.

[Codraroll]

17 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

Yall that was unreal.

 

So much this.

A few colleagues and I put it on a big screen in the office and watched it together. It was a real great show, as it were. The tension with the countdown hold, the cheering when they resumed, seeing the big candle light up, and watching it actually get off the pad. And engines going out, the Kerbal tumble upon failed stage separation, the rocket (as big as a skyscraper!) tumble end over end in free-fall, and finally the flight termination.

What a ride. What an experience. I'm so glad to have seen it live.

[steve9728]

Missed the party but I just watched it. The most kerbal launch I've ever saw

[AtomicTech]

Yep!

[RCgothic]

Collateral damage:

 

 

[Vl3d]

That booster had a KSP2 bug for sure.

[AckSed]

Just to get an idea of the sheer volume of the sound of liftoff, go back to the normal NSF 24/7 livestream and rewind to the point just before liftoff. It's exactly like a bomb going off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

Do not use headphones.

[tater]

I noticed the bending on vid as well, @sevenperforce. That pic I posted shows it looking ok though.

[Codraroll]

I wonder about the state of the launch mount. As it launched, something that looked suspiciously like debris went skyward from the base of the tower. Could just be ice that fell from the rocket and got caught in the exhaust, but could also be something that got ripped loose. The stand got barbecued quite thoroughly, so it'll be interesting to see what it looks like now.

[RCgothic]

Yeah, look at the impacts in this: the launch pad got *obliterated*!

 

 

[magnemoe]

2 minutes ago, RCgothic said:

Collateral damage:

 

 

If you don't tell the insurance company you parted inside the danger zone of an rocket launching. 
But they still has problems with stuff getting thrown out on launch.  Dont see why they don't cover the area below in thick metal plates. 

[AtomicTech]

2 minutes ago, magnemoe said:

If you don't tell the insurance company you parted inside the danger zone of an rocket launching. 
But they still has problems with stuff getting thrown out on launch.  Dont see why they don't cover the area below in thick metal plates. 

I wonder, does State Farm cover steel bottle rockets?

[magnemoe]

1 minute ago, Codraroll said:

I wonder about the state of the launch mount. As it launched, something that looked suspiciously like debris went skyward from the base of the tower. Could just be ice that fell from the rocket and got caught in the exhaust, but could also be something that got ripped loose. The stand got barbecued quite thoroughly, so it'll be interesting to see what it looks like now.

I assume its the concrete at the base who got blown away as usual. But ice could also be part of it. 
Now Everyday astronaut got an small sand storm 5 miles from the pad, assume its sand kicked up and drifting with the wind. 

In the army we blew up over 100 kg of explosives dug down in an bog. It blew lots of the bog into an mushroom cloud who fell down on a poor buy keeping guard as an track going into the range. 
He had been there all day as the officers forgot to have other take over the guard duty as they was rigging explosives. 

[RCgothic]

Tank farm took some damage:

 

 

 

Possibly relevant to a loss of control: 1 of the 2 Hydraulic Power Units exploded at T+30:

 

[Snark]

14 minutes ago, magnemoe said:

If you don't tell the insurance company you parted inside the danger zone of an rocket launching.

I'll admit, it does seem like an awfully gutsy place to park one's car.

 

Did they... not anticipate the sort of blast you get from a 5000-ton rocket taking off?  It seems like they didn't expect this much, or surely they would have done something to protect the tank farm, at least (either with distance or with barriers).

[zolotiyeruki]

It seems like right after it started the gravity turn, it was already not pointed prograde.  My guess is that losing 20% of the engines impacted TWR too much, and we all know how much more drag you get when you try to fly your rocket sideways!  Maybe it didn't separate because it hadn't reached the appointed altitude?

[RCgothic]

WOW: