[1.12.2] BARIS - Building A Rocket Isn't Simple

[Angelo Kerman]

34 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

Yay!  Lots of good fixes!  Thanks!

BTW, I have a question about how parts acquire flight experiences....  I have DSEV and recently unlocked the Trinity engine, which causes all sorts of rep problems if you run it in the atmosphere of your home planet.  Which basically means, you can't test it, at least not live.  So, if I build a test rig with some other parts in the 1st stage and the Trinity in the 2nd stage, but only run the 1st stage so the Trinity never runs, does that count as a flight for the Trinity?

When you stage a rocket, BARIS looks at the current stage and the stage above it to check for potential failures (necessary due to the way the game works as your rocket consumes fuel). If staging is successful, your parts automatically gain flight experience. If the staging fails, each part still has a chance to gain experience. You can set the failure percentage in BARIS' launch failures settings.

Currently, the rep loss will only happen if the engine is activated and throttled up. Next update will also check for first-time activation of the engine within the atmosphere of the homeworld and/or near other inhabited vessels. In this situation, you'll incur 5 seconds worth of rep loss. This will cover the situation where you try to cheat and gain flight experience without actually running the engine.

Given how powerful the Trinity is, I think it's reasonable to make it hard to test, especially since you can spend science and/or funds in the test bench to improve its quality, and can build the engine via Extraplanetary Launchpads off world, move it out of physics range, and give it a go.

26 minutes ago, awsumindyman said:

@Angel-125 Feature Concept: Reuse, Refurbish, Refund, Relaunch.

Basically, a custom integration of the reusability mechanic in KCT. When a craft is recovered, you have the option to reuse it or toss it (This could be tied to facility levels). If you reuse it, you have to wait for the recovered vessel to go through Processing, which restores most of the MBTF and Quality of the parts. After the vehicle has been Processed, it can then be reintegrated at a much lower cost and in less time than a fresh rocket. Over time, the vessel will wear out, with each successive refurbishment restoring less and less MBTF/Quality. Eventually, the vessel will have to be replaced. 

Thanks for the suggestion, but that functionality is a lot of work for little return on investment. It's easier to just build infrastructure at your space center to reuse the vessels you've landed. EJSA does it all the time with stock parts, but mods like KIS and Infernal Robotics can make things easier.

[Geschosskopf]

1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

Currently, the rep loss will only happen if the engine is activated and throttled up. Next update will also check for first-time activation of the engine within the atmosphere of the homeworld and/or near other inhabited vessels. In this situation, you'll incur 5 seconds worth of rep loss. This will cover the situation where you try to cheat and gain flight experience without actually running the engine.

I ain't trying to cheat, I'm trying to play by the rules you wrote   

 

1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

Given how powerful the Trinity is, I think it's reasonable to make it hard to test, especially since you can spend science and/or funds in the test bench to improve its quality, and can build the engine via Extraplanetary Launchpads off world, move it out of physics range, and give it a go.

"Difficult" has a spectrum.  This seems a bit on the extreme end of that   EL's not a real option unless it's the complete focus of your game and the test bench is so expensive it's almost cheaper just to build the whole rocket and let it explode..  Oh well, I guess I'll have to lob it suborbital, which is cheaper than the test bench.  But OTOH, I'm losing my enthusiasm for doing so.  The Trinity is nice, yes, but not so much nicer than other nuclear mod engines that I have, which have no testing issues.

 

 

 

 

[Wahgineer]

@Angel-125 More (potentially pointless) feature ideas!

Production Runs:

In real life, NASA doesn't build its rockets onsite at the KSC. They're constructed by the contractor(s) hired to build the rocket at their own facilities. They are then shipped to the space center, where they are then assembled in the VAB, before being integrated with the payload and launched. A feature similar to this could be useful in BARIS.

Ordering a production run: in the VAB, you would have the option to order a production run: you select a sub-assembly (assuming that you have taken the LV and made it into a sub-assembly) that you want to order, and then the number you want. BARIS then calculates the cost and time it would take to manufacture the rockets, and give you the option to either receive the entire batch on completion, or get each rocket as it is completed.

Storage: outsourced rockets would be stored in Low bays. The number of Low bays you have is dependent  on the current level of the VAB. One rocket takes up one slot

Integration: this is where production runs show their advantage: Final integration takes far less time and far less funds than it would to build the rocket normally. Coupled with the fact that you already have a collection of rockets on site, this could allow you to launch several missions in a short period of time, which would be useful for rescue missions,or assembling an interplanetary vessel in time for the next launch window.

Balancing: The number of production runs you can order at once is tied to the level of the administration building. The number of rockets you can store on site is tied to the level of the VAB. the level of the R&D building determines how long it will take for a production run to complete (more advanced R&D=more advanced tech=improved manufacturing techniques=rockets take less time to build).

[Angelo Kerman]

@awsumindyman It kind of sounds like you're looking for a mod like Kerbal Construction Time:

KCT has a number of features that you're asking for. I haven't tried using it with BARIS though.

[Snillum101]

This mod is fantastic! It's really breathed new life into my latest playthrough. I'm actually spending time testing and re-testing my rockets to make sure they  are safe for my Kerbals

 

A couple of questions/suggestions if I may:

- I'm a little confused about the difference between "Flight Experience" and "Quality" does one effect the other? I've not seen any way to check how much flight experience a particular part has.

- Using the test bench I'm able to get some of my often used parts to well over 100 quality (Some have 250+ ) Is this intentional? At the moment it quite possible to make a craft that uses a bunch of untested parts but because it has one part with very high quality the overall reliability of the craft is decent.

- I saw in the manual that quality checks are called whenever a part is used/throttled up etc. Might I suggest adding a short cooldown to those checks to prevent message spam? I'm seeing a lot of messages saying Jeb managed to jury rigg reaction wheels and RCS ports whenever I turn my ship anywhere.

Again thanks for your work on a great mod

Edited February 14, 2018 by Snillum101
Spelling

[Chrisbburn]

Hi 

@Angel-125 First absolutely fantastic mod, its just what I wanted coupled with some other mods can make a reasonably difficult (enough for me) play through.

I am also a little confused with what I am seeing though. I didn't seem to be getting Flight experience on parts when I static tested them so set about an experiment to check. Could someone let me know if the following is to be expected?

KSP 1.3.1 (64Bit)

BARIS 1.4.9 

(No Other Mods)

BARIS settings are default apart from

Flights needed to gain experience = 1

% Chance fail gives experience = 100

Test 1 

Flea Rocket (Mk1 Pod, Chute, Flea & some Goo Pods) initially all breakable parts have 25 reliability after Integration 

Integrate and launch

Expected results 

All parts now have 26 reliability

Actual Results 

All parts now have 26 reliability - Horrah

Test 2

Flea Rocket (Mk1 Pod, Chute, Flea & some Goo Pods) attached to Launch stabiliser. using staging I am only going to stage the rocket.  Initially all breakable parts have 26 reliability after Integration 

Integrate and launch

Expected results 

All parts now have 27 reliability

Actual Results 

Mk1 Pod has 27 Reliability, Flea still has 26 ???????

Is this correct?

[Bit Fiddler]

so not having used this mod yet this comment may be way out in left field....  but I did just delete my 1.3.1 career and am starting over to include this....

 

however, the idea of event cards is new to me, but it sounds like they will be interesting.  my question was if you could hook them into the Final Frontier mod, and award ribbons for the events...   not sure what these event cards will do or say mind you, but if they  are special enough to warrant a game mechanic change they may be special enough to warrant a ribbon in Final Frontier.

 

EDIT: oh and a second though are these event cards an API other mods may hook into?  for instance could I create a contract that would then trigger an event card?  or could I make random events in my mod and tie them into your system?  as I say I may be not only out of the ball park but I may be playing the wrong sport entirely.   I am off to RTFM while KSP loads.

 

 

 

EDIT2:

Am I missing something?  or is there no way to store a recovered craft for later use?   for instance... I build an SSTO, launch it to my station for a supply run, then return and land at KSP.  how can I then save this for reuse without having to go and spend another 2 or 3 hundred days or what ever building a new one every time?  if this is not possible we really need this added.  when recovering a craft we need the option to "Recover for cash" or  "Recover to storage" so we can choose to get the cash value back as it works now, or recover this as a reusable vehicle and just store it for a speedy re-launch at a later date.  maybe still let it go into integration for refit, which will replace worn parts and take 1 or 2 days, or re-launch as is with the worn parts from previous missions.

if this mechanic exists already I do not see a way to make it happen... 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Bit Fiddler

[Chrisbburn]

On 15/02/2018 at 3:56 AM, Bit Fiddler said:

 

EDIT2:

Am I missing something?  or is there no way to store a recovered craft for later use?   for instance... I build an SSTO, launch it to my station for a supply run, then return and land at KSP.  how can I then save this for reuse without having to go and spend another 2 or 3 hundred days or what ever building a new one every time?  if this is not possible we really need this added.  when recovering a craft we need the option to "Recover for cash" or  "Recover to storage" so we can choose to get the cash value back as it works now, or recover this as a reusable vehicle and just store it for a speedy re-launch at a later date.  maybe still let it go into integration for refit, which will replace worn parts and take 1 or 2 days, or re-launch as is with the worn parts from previous missions.

if this mechanic exists already I do not see a way to make it happen... 

 

 

Different mod. Try KCT

[Bit Fiddler]

Right, that is my point, this mod needs this mechanic as well...  assuming it is not in heresomewhere, and I just cant find it.

[theonegalen]

Possible bug report. About a week ago I was playing KSP when I got a BARIS event card informing me that one of my Kerbalnaughts had gone on vacation. However, all of my kerbals appeared to be available, and the event card did not identify which one had supposedly gone on vacation. I didn't even think to get a log at the time, but I thought I'd let you know, because it might be something that was obvious in the code.

[Angelo Kerman]

46 minutes ago, theonegalen said:

Possible bug report. About a week ago I was playing KSP when I got a BARIS event card informing me that one of my Kerbalnaughts had gone on vacation. However, all of my kerbals appeared to be available, and the event card did not identify which one had supposedly gone on vacation. I didn't even think to get a log at the time, but I thought I'd let you know, because it might be something that was obvious in the code.

Not a bug, sometimes you don't have kerbals that BARIS can make go AWOL. What I should do is make sure the event card doesn't show up if you don't have any valid kerbals to mess around with.

[Misucat]

On 16/02/2018 at 6:42 PM, Chrisbburn said:

Different mod. Try KCT

Which version of KCT/MagiCore please. I"m using the last beta 43, "compatible" with KSP 1.3.1 and BARIS UI's seem to be bugging. If I not use KCT, BARIS works fine 

If I click on the BARIS Button in VAB/SPH, the windows isn't complete:

And here with a screen take in Space Center. The windows "Vehicle Integration" tell me "no vessels in under construction". Also, impossible to change number of worker's/Astronaut's:

[Chrisbburn]

1 hour ago, Misucat said:

Which version of KCT/MagiCore please. I"m using the last beta 43, "compatible" with KSP 1.3.1 and BARIS UI's seem to be bugging. If I not use KCT, BARIS works fine 

If I click on the BARIS Button in VAB/SPH, the windows isn't complete:

And here with a screen take in Space Center. The windows "Vehicle Integration" tell me "no vessels in under construction". Also, impossible to change number of worker's/Astronaut's:

I used that very same version and it worked fine. Check there is only 1 magicore dll

[Shushoni]

1 hour ago, Misucat said:

Which version of KCT/MagiCore please. I"m using the last beta 43, "compatible" with KSP 1.3.1 and BARIS UI's seem to be bugging. If I not use KCT, BARIS works fine 

If I click on the BARIS Button in VAB/SPH, the windows isn't complete:

 

And here with a screen take in Space Center. The windows "Vehicle Integration" tell me "no vessels in under construction". Also, impossible to change number of worker's/Astronaut's:

 

With KCT installed, BARIS will automatically integrate vehicles while under construction. So, in short, working as intended.

[Misucat]

Thank you very much for your help! 

[Angelo Kerman]

BARIS 1.5 is now available:

- Recompiled for KSP 1.4.1

[theonegalen]

Fantastic! Soon my 1.4.1 career save will begin!

[JadeOfMaar]

2 hours ago, theonegalen said:

Soon

Soon™!

 

[Bit Fiddler]

have you looked at scrapyard support?  it is a mod helper that will track a part for the entire life of the specific part so you can reuse it, as well as how many times that part type has been used over all to allow for these to affect reliability and or cost etc.

[theonegalen]

11 hours ago, Bit Fiddler said:

have you looked at scrapyard support?  it is a mod helper that will track a part for the entire life of the specific part so you can reuse it, as well as how many times that part type has been used over all to allow for these to affect reliability and or cost etc.

Alternatively, @Angel-125 would it be possible to disable the part reliability portion of BARIS when the ScrapYard based mod Oh Scrap! is involved? It seems like the current version of turning off part failures in the menu turns off the entire mod. I still want to use the rest of BARIS, but I'd like to use Oh Scrap for the part failures and reliability.

[Angelo Kerman]

2 hours ago, theonegalen said:

Alternatively, @Angel-125 would it be possible to disable the part reliability portion of BARIS when the ScrapYard based mod Oh Scrap! is involved? It seems like the current version of turning off part failures in the menu turns off the entire mod. I still want to use the rest of BARIS, but I'd like to use Oh Scrap for the part failures and reliability.

No, part reliability is the center of the mod. My suggestion is to just not use BARIS if you have ScrapYard installed, and use something like DangIt instead.

[theonegalen]

13 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

No, part reliability is the center of the mod. My suggestion is to just not use BARIS if you have ScrapYard installed, and use something like DangIt instead.

That's what I figured the answer would be, but I also figured that it never hurts to ask.

Oh Scrap! is @severedsolo's part reliability mod that uses ScrapYard to track how often parts have been used and recovered, and adjusts their reliability accordingly.

Edited March 22, 2018 by theonegalen

[Abpilot]

I am having trouble during launches, I get launchfailurs 24/7.non stop. How would I change the difficulty?

[Gordon Dry]

How is the compatibility to Kerbalism regarding reliability?

I just ask because Kerbalism got its own routines for reliability:

Quote

RELIABILITY

---

Components don't last forever in the real world. This is modelled by a simple system that can trigger failures on arbitrary modules. Manufacturing quality can be choosen in the editor, per-component, and improve the MTBF but also require extra cost and mass. The crew can inspect and repair malfunctioned components. Redundancy become a key aspect of the design phase.

Edit:

btw I know that I can disable the reliability setting in Kerbalism in
GameData\Kerbalism\Settings.cfg:

  Reliability = false                  // component malfunctions and critical failures

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Gordon Dry

[JadeOfMaar]

33 minutes ago, Gordon Dry said:

How is the compatibility to Kerbalism regarding reliability?

I just ask because Kerbalism got its own routines for reliability:

That is for you to find out and to share with other players who may want to attempt to use BARIS with Kerbalism.  

2 hours ago, Abpilot said:

I am having trouble during launches, I get launchfailurs 24/7.non stop. How would I change the difficulty?

Go to Difficulty Settings, find the BARIS tab among the mod tabs, and get to know the sliders and buttons.