Kerbal Space Program Enhanced Edition Grand Discussion thread

[GrouchyDevotee]

I've only had one extended sideways Eva so far, couldn't seem to get pointed ( rotated ) in the correct direction, I'll have to try switching views while doing Eva's as has been suggested.

I have noticed that the offset tool ( while building in the VAB )seems to activate multiple directions at once, I just wanted to shove a Reliant engine "in" just a tad for landing clearance, it kept going off-centre making for an interesting build.

I currently would have preferred they kept the throttle as a fine tune slider until holding the modifier, but I'm getting use to the new scheme.

Took me awhile to realise that the pink indicators in the attitude controls were trim sets, I seem to enable them several times per manoeuvre... most likely it's just from me having the old control scheme in mind.

I haven't done much of anything in the hanger yet. Haven't tried to build or fly a plane in the Enhanced edition... yet.

Have the Biomes changed dramatically? Having a bit of a time getting science from my short hops.

I haven't tried the de-bug menu, it would be nice to be able to practice some landings on different planets, and practice assembling some Station builds,  and really just generally mess around in sandbox mode, but I haven't even looked for it yet.

Does anybody know if opening or using the De-bug menu mess up the achievements?

I'm still trying to learn the radial menus, so, one thing at a time. Next up, measure some temps in orbit around the Mun and land a Kerbal on that sucker!

[AndyChilly]

4 minutes ago, GrouchyDevotee said:

Does anybody know if opening or using the De-bug menu mess up the achievements?

Thats another problem, it doesn't affect achievements at all! I debugged into orbit after playing with with the menu the day I got the game and got a kerbin Orbit achievement...so now i'm not using it anymore as i dont want anymore ill gotten achievements..

[Deddly]

4 minutes ago, AndyChilly said:

Both? Am i wrong in thinking that  Squad Devs are receiving the bug reports, replicating them and sending them onto BW to fix?

...

But i'm back to wondering do we start to have a fix in a few weeks or do we have a fix in 18 months? its seriously disheartening as i supported the game fully with the flying tiger port....provided work arounds  for people and told people to have faith and that we will get the game we are owed....I was so excited when EE was released and I finally felt like my patience had been rewarded and now im back to where I was. checking the Kerbal Forums and Dev notes for news on when i can confidently play this game without the game breaking.

im tired, im heartbroken and i feel like an idiot as ive been pushing the KSP:EE facebook group to people and persuading people to buy the game on release as it would be relatively bug free.

BTW i'm also melodramatic. but that comes with having twin baby girls.

The members of Squad who are working on the console release are the QA team, the community managers and the producer. The actual programming is being done by Blitworks, and as I understand it, TakeTwo has also provided a lot of support. That being as it is, I don't think we can't expect Squad to stop working on 1.4 and Making History for the PC/Mac/Linux versions. Two development teams.

I don't know how long it takes to make a patch, but I do know that some really good bug reports have come in so far, and I know that people are working really hard on it. Bear in mind that a patch also needs to go through certification, so I guess just a couple of weeks is maybe an unrealistic expectation. But I'm not in either team so I don't know for sure. What I do know is that it really sucks that you're still experiencing problems. Early comments seemed so overwhelmingly positive. Is it really that bad that you can't play it?

[AndyChilly]

1 minute ago, Deddly said:

Is it really that bad that you can't play it?

I can and have been playing it.. but generally the chit chat puts me off. (what people have been experiencing) and when i experience them first hand I just shut off and pay something else...i get 1-2 hours of gaming time a night

example: I started  a project the other day. made a rover and it was exploding when testing it on the runway. took it back to the hanger and discovered that 2 wheels were inside each other on one side of the rover (which i definitely did not place there)...as i tried to get rid of the phantom second wheel the controls stopped working all together.I could move the cursor but no buttons worked so i shut off....at this point i saw it was getting late and i thought to myself do i want to go back in and try and replicate this problem try and find a work around and file a bug report before actually carrying on playing the game i wanted to play?...naw...ill just stick on something i can enjoy for the next 30 mins...I haven't played it since as i don't like my gaming interrupted by bugs on a regular basis. i'd rather play something i can rely on. Funnily enough im more likely to play the flying tiger version until we see a patch as I know the work around very well.

Am I being lazy? maybe....if there was a quick bug report in the game then no problem....something happens you click 'reoprt bug' and it captures the last 30/60 seconds and there is a lil dialogue window to mention what happened....click submit....then yes i would definitely report bugs. The current system is convoluted, time consuming and in all honesty not designed for regular gamers to use.

[HebaruSan]

3 hours ago, AndyChilly said:

"In other news, we continue to compile all the feedback and reports we are getting regarding Kerbal Space Program Enhanced Edition. As these reports come in, the QA team tries to reproduce them, according to the description that the players provide. The successful reproduction of a bug allows us to identify a bug/issue with precision and consequently to work on solutions. This is why making reports properly is a great way to help us fix any bugs promptly and efficiently. "

Andy to devs - 'so what have you been doing this week?'

Devs - 'Well, getting ready for the launch of "Making History"....

Andy - 'Whoa, Whoa I mean with regards to the console version you just launched for us non-pc players

Devs - 'oh, well i mean...weve got a list of bugs, but really we cant fix these bugs until you fill out our bug report'

Andy - '...couldnt YOU also play the game and note down the bugs?'

That statement is just meant to indicate that they're listening to the community. Would you prefer this?

"We know the console port has bugs, but we're going to ignore the ones you, our customers, are reporting and instead listen only to our QA team. You know, the one that already tested this version of the game before it went out."

Unfortunately, bug reports for any software are frequently useless, even ones made by professional QA staff. "couldnt YOU also play the game and note down the bugs" doesn't work if they play the game and don't see the same bugs you do, because they clicked the buttons in a different order than you did, for example. I don't blame SQUAD for trying to increase the signal to noise ratio of the reports they're digging through.

[Leopard]

you want good feedback for bugs?

include a bug/crash reporter within the game - this can then send the save and whatever internal state information the developers feel the need to include.

this isn't a PC where there is a web browser thats easy to use a click away, its a console, without a keyboard, getting screen grabs off is a pain, data dumps essentially impossible - if you want reports in a consistent way have a form inside the program, running as a supervisory watchdog process - outside the game engine, and not using the same control engine and maybe, just maybe, you will get useful information back

[Mako]

57 minutes ago, Leopard said:

you want good feedback for bugs?

include a bug/crash reporter within the game - this can then send the save and whatever internal state information the developers feel the need to include.

this isn't a PC where there is a web browser thats easy to use a click away, its a console, without a keyboard, getting screen grabs off is a pain, data dumps essentially impossible - if you want reports in a consistent way have a form inside the program, running as a supervisory watchdog process - outside the game engine, and not using the same control engine and maybe, just maybe, you will get useful information back

While I agree that this would be the ideal solution, if the engine they're using (Unity) doesn't have that kind of feature built in I doubt we'll see anything like it. Squad has never even managed to get a working update patcher functioning on the PC, so I doubt they'd be able to implement a bug reporter. I bet they'd be able to take reports and find bugs themselves AND get most/all resolved to most players satisfaction before they'd be able to get an in-game bug reporter functioning.

So that leaves us where we're at, which frankly is where we've always been: console players still underwhelmed and/or upset with Squad's (and now Take-Two's) communication and their product's ability to function as intended.

As a PC player who would like to share KSP with console-only friends, I'm frustrated on behalf of console players. I agree that you shouldn't have a product that isn't in early access seeming to rely so heavily on players for bug hunting. I thought the idea of early access was you stayed there while you wanted/needed community feedback and then moved to the actual release when controls schemes, documentation/tutorials/info, features, and content were complete, stable, and in their final state. I guess the console version, much like the PC version, should be considered and treated as if it were still in early access for an extended period of time after release. How long? Who knows?

But for the time being, whether you think it's right and whether or not you feel like doing it, having the community learn how to properly submit all the relevant data on bugs or other issues is probably the quickest way for things to be fixed.

All this being said, I know the people who make this game, between Squad, Blitworks, and any other help, truly want to make a good product that makes people happy. I'm sure they're just as frustrated with a lot of this stuff as all the players who are encountering issues. Squad's communication is very weak in this regard, as it is for most things (and I really wish they'd get better but I don't see them starting now -- it all just seems like it's being written by a marketing team [not really a surprise] that's a step or two removed from what's going on), but I really believe they want to do a good job. Believing that doesn't make anything better by itself, but it does help to keep things in perspective. I believe everyone wants to see this go well for every console player. Hopefully they'll get there soon.

[GrouchyDevotee]

3 hours ago, Mako said:

 I believe everyone wants to see this go well for every console player. Hopefully they'll get there soon.

I'm quite happy with the Enhanced Edition for PS4.

Yes, it's a processor heavy game that gets my console running on the warm side, and there are certainly a few things that need to be sorted out, but the game is way better than it was.

The fact they are working on it at all is great news.

I look forward to any and all DLC they release for Kerbal Space Program!

[Cheif Operations Director]

On 1/18/2018 at 2:04 AM, JackFlash81 said:

I tried flying my MIG based fighter jet and the handling with the enhanced edition is way better! It’s really easy to adjust your landing gear to g at the height right, and get the main gear far enough apart to get a wide foot print. I’m so glad we can target our waypoints now!!!

i’ve got to check out the analog throttle setting to see what that does. I’m finally at the point where I’m going to do a minmus landing - not sure how i’ll like the current way the throttle works or not. I guess it’s an excuse to try both settings. Anyone else try the analog throttle?

Try PAK FA 

[GrouchyDevotee]

On 1/16/2018 at 6:30 PM, Cheif Operations Director said:

Anyone find the debug menu yet?

Scott Manley has a video explaining this.

[Claytsuk]

This console version of KSP is totally broken for me.  Saving the game is a complete lottery.  Sometimes it works sometimes not, you have to save often because there's a big chance that you do a load of work and then lose it all.  You can't save, you can't go back to the space centre or do anything.

That and the lack of a phyics warp (no one can tell me where it is anyway) - you can warp time but not when you are accelerating. 

 

 

[Terwin]

On 1/29/2018 at 10:08 AM, GrouchyDevotee said:

Have the Biomes changed dramatically? Having a bit of a time getting science from my short hops.

There were some errors on the biome maps that were fixed(no more tundra on the KSC peninsula for example), but other than fixing errors, I do not recall any biomes being added or changed since before 1.0

[Kerbuvim]

On ps4 pro, after several days of normal work, sudden freezes started in the game, for example, on the screen of the space center, without any vessels in flight.

 

 

I did not want to buy a game in its current state, but I could not stand it ... Well, what a mess in the picture, but this is 4K!

Edited February 2, 2018 by Kerbuvim

[Majorjim!]

On 01/27/2018 at 12:27 PM, Hermitor said:

I finally lost my main save when trying to launch a rediculously huge shuttle that I'd been modifying, in a game running for several hours.

I had 3 missions enroute to Jool and a fleet around Kerbin and Minmus slowing the game to the point of 'buffering' for a few hours before then, intentionally testing it's limits at the time... the game locked on an almost-loaded lauchpad screen, with all the numbers displaying nines.  I knew lost saves were caused by quitting without exiting (never lost one before)... but it was frozen for 5 minutes... I hoped for the best and shut it down to the home screen...

On reloading all the non-stock vehicles are gone from the SPH and VAB.  All my missions are still out there, but the VAB and SPH are basically inert. Save Craft, New Craft and Lauch are permanantly greyed out.  All my quicksaves within that game are gone except 'quicksave' and 'persistent'  

This kind of thing is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. How the hell are you supposed to play the game knowing that at any moment something may happen that wipes out hours and hours of work..? Now the console version has no part count limit which on console is total madness.. It was advertised as a good thing! No part limit, no problem! Except you never know when you will load in too many parts crash the game and lose your craft and save file. It boggles the mind that someone thought this was a good idea..

[Kerbuvim]

8 minutes ago, Majorjim! said:

On reloading all the non-stock vehicles are gone from the SPH and VAB.  All my missions are still out there

I had the same thing! 

[Majorjim!]

On 01/29/2018 at 5:37 PM, AndyChilly said:

I can and have been playing it.. but generally the chit chat puts me off. (what people have been experiencing) and when i experience them first hand I just shut off and pay something else...i get 1-2 hours of gaming time a night

example: I started  a project the other day. made a rover and it was exploding when testing it on the runway. took it back to the hanger and discovered that 2 wheels were inside each other on one side of the rover (which i definitely did not place there)...as i tried to get rid of the phantom second wheel the controls stopped working all together.I could move the cursor but no buttons worked so i shut off....at this point i saw it was getting late and i thought to myself do i want to go back in and try and replicate this problem try and find a work around and file a bug report before actually carrying on playing the game i wanted to play?...naw...ill just stick on something i can enjoy for the next 30 mins...I haven't played it since as i don't like my gaming interrupted by bugs on a regular basis. i'd rather play something i can rely on. Funnily enough im more likely to play the flying tiger version until we see a patch as I know the work around very well.

Am I being lazy? maybe....if there was a quick bug report in the game then no problem....something happens you click 'reoprt bug' and it captures the last 30/60 seconds and there is a lil dialogue window to mention what happened....click submit....then yes i would definitely report bugs. The current system is convoluted, time consuming and in all honesty not designed for regular gamers to use.

Funny thing, you buy a game to 'play' it. To relax and enjoy your chosen hobby. Not to have to do bloody work to get the damn thing to do what it's supposed to.

 If you want to do bug reports set a day aside for just that. Take your time and submit a detailed bug report. then bill SQUAD/BLITZWORKS/TAKETWO for your time. I'm serious. Bill them.

[Space Station 4 Crash]

The port is an absolute mess. Yes, it is better than Flying Tiger's version but it is bordering unplayable. Late game career mode is a nightmare. Shame on you SQUAD and BLITWORKS.

[Terwin]

1 hour ago, Space Station 4 Crash said:

The port is an absolute mess. Yes, it is better than Flying Tiger's version but it is bordering unplayable. Late game career mode is a nightmare. Shame on you SQUAD and BLITWORKS.

Without any details on when and how the game is having which problems, there is nothing that can be done to address your problems.

You mentioned late-game, is it an issue when you have vessels with more than a certain part-count?  

More than a certain number of vessels in flight?

Vessels with a total part count over x in physics range?  Only when docking?

Does the game slow down, crash, or one then the other?

Does reaching day/year X cause your game to crash?

Does something bad happen when you enter the Duna SOI?  Jool SOI? any time you leave the Kerbin SOI?

Are you referring to UI problems? Which control scheme?

Is the problem that all of your airplanes crash or fail to take flight?

Is your problem that none of your space-plane designs can get to orbit?  Rockets?

Are you upset that no matter how high you launch your rockets they always fall back down?

Does your problem have to do with your ships always burning up in the atmosphere?  Not burning up when they should?

Are your land-trains having control issues? Decoupling issues?  Acceleration issues?

Are you upset that ground-scatter is non-physical?

Have you been searching for, but unable to find the birds making noises near mission control?

Has the random Kerbal name generator refused to provide a kerbal with your same first name?

Have the kerbals from your rescue missions all turned out to be pilots which you do not need, or failed to be pilots which you do need?

Are you upset that the game does not allow you to take advantage of the wing-in-ground effect?  Some other aspect of aerodynamics?

Are you upset that there is no light-weight, high-isp, high-thrust engine that would let you SSTO from Eve?

Do you think the economics in KSP are too awful to stand?

Are you upset about some contracts being non-senical or impossible to achieve with the funds provided?

Are you upset at the lack of a 'campaign' mode or futher advancement after finishing the tech tree?

 

Depending on your temperament and play-style, any or all of these could be the source of your complaint, but without details no one could know if it is a bug, unhappiness with design decisions, or just a lack of familiarity with the physics involved...

[Space Station 4 Crash]

11 hours ago, Terwin said:

Without any details on when and how the game is having which problems, there is nothing that can be done to address your problems.

You mentioned late-game, is it an issue when you have vessels with more than a certain part-count?  

More than a certain number of vessels in flight?

Vessels with a total part count over x in physics range?  Only when docking?

Does the game slow down, crash, or one then the other?

Does reaching day/year X cause your game to crash?

Does something bad happen when you enter the Duna SOI?  Jool SOI? any time you leave the Kerbin SOI?

Are you referring to UI problems? Which control scheme?

Is the problem that all of your airplanes crash or fail to take flight?

Is your problem that none of your space-plane designs can get to orbit?  Rockets?

Are you upset that no matter how high you launch your rockets they always fall back down?

Does your problem have to do with your ships always burning up in the atmosphere?  Not burning up when they should?

Are your land-trains having control issues? Decoupling issues?  Acceleration issues?

Are you upset that ground-scatter is non-physical?

Have you been searching for, but unable to find the birds making noises near mission control?

Has the random Kerbal name generator refused to provide a kerbal with your same first name?

Have the kerbals from your rescue missions all turned out to be pilots which you do not need, or failed to be pilots which you do need?

Are you upset that the game does not allow you to take advantage of the wing-in-ground effect?  Some other aspect of aerodynamics?

Are you upset that there is no light-weight, high-isp, high-thrust engine that would let you SSTO from Eve?

Do you think the economics in KSP are too awful to stand?

Are you upset about some contracts being non-senical or impossible to achieve with the funds provided?

Are you upset at the lack of a 'campaign' mode or futher advancement after finishing the tech tree?

 

Depending on your temperament and play-style, any or all of these could be the source of your complaint, but without details no one could know if it is a bug, unhappiness with design decisions, or just a lack of familiarity with the physics involved...

Great effort but I have added numerous bug reports and detailed descriptions about the problems I have faced. The game is a mess. Not only are you assuming that I havn't submitted bug reports (which I have) or made numerous posts about bugs, but you have spent all this time writing that post [snip]. Oh! and the title of the post is grand discussion thread. Not a support thread. I am discussing how the game is a complete mess on console. Even after a year and a half wait. Cheers.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Vanamonde

[Socraticat]

11 hours ago, Terwin said:

Without any details on when and how the game is having which problems, there is nothing that can be done to address your problems.

You mentioned late-game, is it an issue when you have vessels with more than a certain part-count?  

More than a certain number of vessels in flight?

Vessels with a total part count over x in physics range?  Only when docking?

Does the game slow down, crash, or one then the other?

Does reaching day/year X cause your game to crash?

Does something bad happen when you enter the Duna SOI?  Jool SOI? any time you leave the Kerbin SOI?

Are you referring to UI problems? Which control scheme?

Is the problem that all of your airplanes crash or fail to take flight?

Is your problem that none of your space-plane designs can get to orbit?  Rockets?

Are you upset that no matter how high you launch your rockets they always fall back down?

Does your problem have to do with your ships always burning up in the atmosphere?  Not burning up when they should?

Are your land-trains having control issues? Decoupling issues?  Acceleration issues?

Are you upset that ground-scatter is non-physical?

Have you been searching for, but unable to find the birds making noises near mission control?

Has the random Kerbal name generator refused to provide a kerbal with your same first name?

Have the kerbals from your rescue missions all turned out to be pilots which you do not need, or failed to be pilots which you do need?

Are you upset that the game does not allow you to take advantage of the wing-in-ground effect?  Some other aspect of aerodynamics?

Are you upset that there is no light-weight, high-isp, high-thrust engine that would let you SSTO from Eve?

Do you think the economics in KSP are too awful to stand?

Are you upset about some contracts being non-senical or impossible to achieve with the funds provided?

Are you upset at the lack of a 'campaign' mode or futher advancement after finishing the tech tree?

 

Depending on your temperament and play-style, any or all of these could be the source of your complaint, but without details no one could know if it is a bug, unhappiness with design decisions, or just a lack of familiarity with the physics involved...

Go take a look at the support forum for consoles and tell me there aren't answers to your questions.

Do your research before you debate, [snip]

Edited February 3, 2018 by Vanamonde

[Vanamonde]

Calling people names does not win them over to your side of a debate or argument. Please be polite to each other while you're here. 

[Terwin]

1 hour ago, Joessep Kerman said:

Go take a look at the support forum for consoles and tell me there aren't answers to your questions.

Do your research before you debate, [snip]

If you and @Space Station 4 Crash have indeed submitted useful and informative bug reports as you indicate, then you have my apologies for suggesting you did not.  Furthermore, my response was only taking the quoted post as a sample of nonconstructive criticism after reading a thread with plenty of complaints and little in the way of details as to what exactly is not working.  (it is also likely I was over-sensitive to the subject due to spending a great deal of time in my day-job over the past week dealing with poorly worded, incomplete, or mutually contradictory requirements).

 

In any case, providing evidence to support your position is likely to be far more persuasive than just stating an unsupported position.

(for example, I would find something along the lines of 'I have only been able to play for about 20 hours so far, but I have already reported 5 new bugs and confirmed or provided additional details on 10 others that someone else reported first, and those are just the ones that crashed my PS4!' to be much more persuasive than 'This software is a steaming pile of excrement!' even if the underlying message is the same)

Edited February 3, 2018 by Terwin

[Socraticat]

10 minutes ago, Terwin said:

@Space Station 4 Crash

In any case, providing evidence to support your position is likely to be far more persuasive than just stating an unsupported position.

(for example, I would find something along the lines of 'I have only been able to play for about 20 hours so far, but I have already reported 5 new bugs and confirmed or provided additional details on 10 others that someone else reported first, and those are just the ones that crashed my PS4!' to be much more persuasive than 'This software is a steaming pile of excrement!' even if the underlying message is the same)

If I've already made game breaking bug reports there's 2 things that follow.

1. I'm not going to continue playing a game that I can't save. As such, I won't be reporting more bugs. That's not my job. That's not why I play games. Is this difficult to understand? 

2. I don't need to give you any evidence if it's in the tracker. Then I'd be doing the work twice. See point 1.

[Claytsuk]

Just to add to this conversation.  It’s not my job after paying £30 for this game to have to spend hours reproducing, analysing and writing up detailed bug reports. I buy the game to spend my time playing it not working around functional bugs that really should and easily could have been found by any professional tester employed to create a test plan and write and execute test cases.

There are multiple stages these bugs should have been found, just taking the save issue alone; any decent functional, system and integration testing would have found this.  Failing that any kind of UAT (User Acceptance Testing) would have found this.  

If it was just the odd minor bug, then Yes I would probably inform the Devs but this is a broken game with multiple game breaking bugs and missing fundamental features (physics warp is one example). Its a disgrace the game got released in this state and that people are still spending their money on it.

 I just called Microsoft support and  got my money back. I’ll stick to playing the PC version.

[AndyChilly]

Not played for a week after an annoying glitch halting progress where two wheels were being placed in the same place whether I wanted it to or not. And when I tried to fix it all the buttons stopped working. I got annoyed and put the game away.

Today I start up the game ready to work around it’s flaws and go to open my saved craft. It’s not loading most of the stock craft or any of my saved builds and also low and behold non of the buttons on the load menu work apart from B to exit.

think I’m just gonna turn it off for a long while...