Games for the dumb!

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

I thought this should be a good popcorn generator  . Seems the goal has been achieved given some of the things i've seen in logs lately
https://www.pcworld.com/article/2455132/dumb-fun-15-dead-stupid-utterly-joyful-pc-games.html#slide10

Spoiler

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by SpannerMonkey(smce)

[adsii1970]

Ok watched the entire slide show and his statements. To me, it seems this person has rated KSP (and possibly other games) as dumb because of not knowing how to play them!

[GoSlash27]

Well, to be fair he *did* point out that KSP can be played as a serious game. It's just that making epic 'splosions is a great deal of "dumb fun".

I don't know how seriously to take this list, since Goat Simulator is missing.

Best,
-Slashy

[Geonovast]

2 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

since Goat Simulator is missing. 

I don't think you can have a better benchmark for a listicle of stupid games.

[adsii1970]

7 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

I don't know how seriously to take this list, since Goat Simulator is missing.

Best,
-Slashy

Ahhh... Yet it is often on sale on Steam... Thanks, @GoSlash27 for reminding us that there are games for even the... um, yeah, it's better not said.

Edited April 26, 2018 by adsii1970

[Zeiss Ikon]

@Slashy Maybe the list has been updated, but Goat Simulator is, in fact, in the list -- you have to go left 4-5 frames from the KSP link given above.

[LordFerret]

All I needed to see was "PCWorld" ... no need to read any further.

[Mr. Peabody]

6 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

I thought this should be a good popcorn generator  . Seems the goal has been achieved given some of the things i've seen in logs lately
https://www.pcworld.com/article/2455132/dumb-fun-15-dead-stupid-utterly-joyful-pc-games.html#slide10

  Reveal hidden contents

 

[Alshain]

It's Squads fault, they pandered to the "'sploshuns are cool" crowd and advertised it as that.  It lost a lot of credibility as a fun and educational game because of their choices.

[Kernel Kraken]

8 minutes ago, Alshain said:

It's Squads fault, they pandered to the "'sploshuns are cool" crowd and advertised it as that.  It lost a lot of credibility as a fun and educational game because of their choices.

But the 'sploshuns' don't look like real- ish 'sploshuns anymore :(. Anyone know if there's an old 'sploshuns mod?

[klgraham1013]

10 hours ago, Alshain said:

It's Squads fault, they pandered to the "'sploshuns are cool" crowd and advertised it as that.  It lost a lot of credibility as a fun and educational game because of their choices.

This.  #lolsokerbal has been embraced far to much in development.  Remember how over hyped exploding buildings was?  Even the naming of Dessert Airfield reflects this to some extent.  If I may quote the great Bac9:

"I'm convinced the obsession with disasters and perception of Kerbals as worthless engineers only caring about explosions is destructive for the game. KSP deserves much more than being a glorified disaster simulator where rockets falling apart and crews being killed is the prime entertainment and the only expected result. The achievements of players who strive to be successful, who create beautiful, well-engineered, reliable designs, should never be devalued, and the opinion that going to space is impossibly hard deserves to be crushed and disproved over and over again. Kerbals are capable engineers and it's up to the player to utilize their technology well."

You can read the whole article here.  I'd even suggest @SQUAD read it as well.  Just as a reminder.

[KerikBalm]

Yea... when I look at stuff from my KSP games, and then see people talk about it as if its just a disaster simulator, its annoying.

This is what KSP is for me (warning, pic heavy):

Spoiler

 

(that's a Mun Gravity assist when giving Kerbin an E class asteroid moon)

Not this:

*which was caused by a bug btw, that thankfully they seem to have fixed.

(no, this did not all start with one of my wings colliding with the launchpad, thats ridiculous)

[Pthigrivi]

15 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

This.  #lolsokerbal has been embraced far to much in development.  Remember how over hyped exploding buildings was?  Even the naming of Dessert Airfield reflects this to some extent.  If I may quote the great Bac9:

"I'm convinced the obsession with disasters and perception of Kerbals as worthless engineers only caring about explosions is destructive for the game. KSP deserves much more than being a glorified disaster simulator where rockets falling apart and crews being killed is the prime entertainment and the only expected result. The achievements of players who strive to be successful, who create beautiful, well-engineered, reliable designs, should never be devalued, and the opinion that going to space is impossibly hard deserves to be crushed and disproved over and over again. Kerbals are capable engineers and it's up to the player to utilize their technology well."

You can read the whole article here.  I'd even suggest @SQUAD read it as well.  Just as a reminder.

I don't know, at the same time I find it difficult to take myself so seriously whilst sending googley-eyed green men to space. The splosions are a hook and a source of levity, mainly for kids, but no matter what your age if youre interested in space and physics you'll see through that to the real possibilities pretty quick. Im personally much more concerned about denying stock players basic flight data like dV and transfer windows than I am about marketing and flavor text. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Pthigrivi

[klgraham1013]

5 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

I don't know, at the same time I find it difficult to take myself so seriously whilst sending googley-eyed green men to space. The splosions are a hook and a source of levity, mainly for kids, but no matter what your age if youre interested in space and physics you'll see through that to the real possibilities pretty quick. Im personally much more concerned about denying stock players basic flight data like dV and transfer windows than I am about marketing and flavor text. 

Yes, but both are important.  Perception is reality after all.  Consider The 1.0 trailer vs Build Fly Dream.

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Though Build Fly Dream certainly has explosions, it is not the main through line of the trailer.  Build Fly Dream ends in accomplishment; the reward of struggling only to succeed in such a grand fashion.  So, what does the KSP1.0 Launch trailer say?  Isn't the imminent death of two Kerbals funny!? LOL!

There's a difference between not taking things to seriously, and completely leaning into the "lolsokerbal explosions are funny" mindset.

As far as denying features that should be there, this isn't a pie chart.  Both things are being done anyway.  One's not taking from the other.

Edited April 29, 2018 by klgraham1013

[G'th]

The whole thing about the "lolsokerbal" idea is that the game was really built on that. The first videos I remember seeing about KSP we're literally someone trying and failing super hard to launch a rocket, and its what got me into the game. The first things I really did we're scifi based, and while I worked very rapidly towards a more realistic approach to the game, the hook for me was in part the cartoony nature of the game. 

And its this cartoony nature thats really being discussed here. I personally don't see it as an issue, because I think at this point in the game's history, there's more than enough readily available evidence that the game isn't just "lolsokerbal".  Anyone whose watched a Scott Manley video, arguably the most well known and visible KSP centric Youtuber can attest to that. 

The problem, I think, is more to do with an imbalance in whats showcased most often, and why. Not just by Squad, but the community too.  I personally cringe every time I see another Kraken drive, but at the same time, I can acknowledge the sheer amount of time an effort that goes into some of the more elaborate designs. And its the posts detailing these that often end up turning into hot topics. And of course, we have the already mentioned difference between Build, Fly, Dream and the 1.0 trailer. 

Long story short, I think the game should put at the forefront both of these ideas. That yes, you can go forth in sandbox mode and get up to all kinds of crazy, kooky stuff. But if you pull up career, or put your mind to it in sandbox, then you can pursue the farthest reaches of the system. And vice versa for that matter.  For every crazy cartoony thing added to the game, we should get stuff that lets us really dig into the spaceflight and engineering that the keeps the game alive. 

And of course, up to now, we generally have. Some of it isn't that great, some of it is a missed opportunity. But I don't think we've really gotten to a point where the game caters purely to the lowest common denominator.  

[klgraham1013]

20 minutes ago, G'th said:

For every crazy cartoony thing added to the game, we should get stuff that lets us really dig into the spaceflight and engineering...

I'd love to get stuff that let's us really dig into the spaceflight and engineering, but here we are, years later, still relying on mods for alarm clocks and dV readouts.

[G'th]

13 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

I'd love to get stuff that let's us really dig into the spaceflight and engineering, but here we are, years later, still relying on mods for alarm clocks and dV readouts.

Tbh, I'm pretty sure most of us would still use a mod for these purposes rather than any stock implementation. 

[Gargamel]

1 hour ago, G'th said:

  I personally cringe every time I see another Kraken drive, but at the same time, I can acknowledge the sheer amount of time an effort that goes into some of the more elaborate designs.

Early days, yeah, it was an easy exploit from a bug in the game.  Nowdays, it's a testament to the ingenuity and engineering of the players.   Squad has eliminated most of the exploits that they can, anything left is no longer a low hanging fruit for them, so they probably won't devote many resources towards fixing them.   But when I see a new kraken drive drive thread, it makes me smile and appreciate the community we have.  It shows that we, as players, are keeping the devs on their toes (or in their drinks), and I applaud it. 

[pandaman]

5 hours ago, G'th said:

Tbh, I'm pretty sure most of us would still use a mod for these purposes rather than any stock implementation. 

Why?

Sure, some mods may offer additional features or present the data in a way that some players may prefer to the stock implementation, especially those already using those mods.

But i tend to think that a reasonable (if basic) stock version of things like Alarm Clock, Dv indicators etc. would be more widely used, partly because new players won't be forced to seek out mods to gain the essential information the game currently doesn't provide.

[klgraham1013]

2 hours ago, pandaman said:

Why?

I think it's because most stock versions of mods have tended to be watered down.  This isn't necessarily negative, but has given the impression of stock implementation being less than.

[pandaman]

15 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

I think it's because most stock versions of mods have tended to be watered down.  This isn't necessarily negative, but has given the impression of stock implementation being less than.

That makes sense.

And, as you said, I think that is maybe a good thing.  Stock needs to give the essential information without over confusing new players (and some old players like me) and ensure the game is, and feels, accessible to all.

[Pthigrivi]

11 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

Yes, but both are important.  Perception is reality after all.  Consider The 1.0 trailer vs Build Fly Dream.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Though Build Fly Dream certainly has explosions, it is not the main through line of the trailer.  Build Fly Dream ends in accomplishment; the reward of struggling only to succeed in such a grand fashion.  So, what does the KSP1.0 Launch trailer say?  Isn't the imminent death of two Kerbals funny!? LOL!

There's a difference between not taking things to seriously, and completely leaning into the "lolsokerbal explosions are funny" mindset.

As far as denying features that should be there, this isn't a pie chart.  Both things are being done anyway.  One's not taking from the other.

I mean I guess. Marketing and flavor text have essentially zero impact on the play experience so it just doesnt bother me in the slightest. Keeping things light for the kids is fine so long as they're also investing in long-term playability.