FedEx CHALLENGE

[Rover 6428]

AIM:  Make a stock ship that would be able to deliver cargo of ore to Laythe from Kerbin.

RULES: The ship must be fully stock, no cheating, the cargo must survive, no abusing of the game engine, if manned: it must have some living space and crew must survive, the whole cargo must be carried by one ship

PS: (empty fuel tanks may be removed, but apart from them and the cargo containers, all of the ship must survive (fuel tanks cannot make up the whole of the ship.)

PPS: ("ship" starts only after it is in LKO, the lifting stage can be dumped)

Challenge modes:

Participation award: just get to Laythe

Noob mode: take your time, land safely 10 tons of ore to Laythe.

Easy mode: maximum time 5 yrs, land safely 20 tons of ore to Laythe

Hard mode: max time 4 yrs, land safely 30 tons of ore to Laythe, land on land, ship must survive, must be manned

Super hard mode: max time 3 yrs, land safely 60 tons of ore, land on land, ship must survive and return safely, must be manned

Matt Lowne mode: impress me

Edited October 12, 2018 by Rover6428
a typo

[Kerbolitto]

This is interresting ! Does decoupling empty fuel tanks qualify for ship must survive if the core / superstructure is complete ? When on Laythe, can we undock ore tanks or do we have to purge them ? Super hard mode : Kerbin Laythe Kerbin under 3 years ?

[dreadanaught]

Interesting challenge, I may attempt it. 

Also, nice FedEx spacecraft.

[l0kki]

Are you allowed to launch the ship seperately from the cargo and load the cargo in orbit?

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by l0kki

[Ultimate Steve]

Hmm...

First off, for the return mode, how much of the ship must return? I can't imagine SSTO-ing all the way there and back with that much cargo, so staging would probably be used.

I may try this, I have some experience with delivering massive payloads to Laythe, I did a giant 150t ring station in one launch once.

[AeroGav]

If the theme is Fedex,  that means commercial trucking ops,  meaning an emphasis on rapid transit, low costs (as much re-use as possible, or the cheapest expendables possible), and you would expect infrastructure (truck stops) to exist.

So,  would an SSTO, with a gas station at Minmus and another in the Jool system be ok?

I started to build an SSTO with 4 ore big ore tanks (60T) but it has quite a short body,  and it's going to look a bit ridiculous if i keep attaching more Wing strakes to add fuel. 40% fuel fraction on an oxidizer free design should get us there nonstop,  but makes for a v big ship

edit - hmm  just test flew this thing,   only gets  to orbit with 550 m/s left.       It's just a bit small for what it's carrying -

Dry Mass 49.5 Tons

Ore  60 T

Liquid Fuel  49.5 T

Gross  162.5

Delta V with full tanks is just a hair over 2800,   so even if I top it off in Kerbin orbit,  it's not got a huge amount to spare for the Jool Transfer burn.     Hmm..   should i keep going with this airplane or scrap it for something with a longer wheelbase?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/woyypbun7fegshs/Rita Orer2.craft?dl=0
Definitely needs more Strakes...

Spoiler

....pedal to the metal,  no stop till Kansas..

 

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by AeroGav

[Rover 6428]

3 hours ago, Kerbolitto said:

This is interresting ! Does decoupling empty fuel tanks qualify for ship must survive if the core / superstructure is complete ? When on Laythe, can we undock ore tanks or do we have to purge them ? Super hard mode : Kerbin Laythe Kerbin under 3 years ?

I'll change the wording 

1 hour ago, l0kki said:

Are you allowed to launch the ship seperately from the cargo and load the cargo in orbit?

 

you are allowed to do this, but they MUST be assembled in lKO and only decoupled at LLO (or surface)

1 hour ago, Ultimate Steve said:

Hmm...

First off, for the return mode, how much of the ship must return? I can't imagine SSTO-ing all the way there and back with that much cargo, so staging would probably be used.

I may try this, I have some experience with delivering massive payloads to Laythe, I did a giant 150t ring station in one launch once.

I have edited the wording, reread the challenge and you will hopefully understand

1 hour ago, AeroGav said:

If the theme is Fedex,  that means commercial trucking ops,  meaning an emphasis on rapid transit, low costs (as much re-use as possible, or the cheapest expendables possible), and you would expect infrastructure (truck stops) to exist.

So,  would an SSTO, with a gas station at Minmus and another in the Jool system be ok?

I started to build an SSTO with 4 ore big ore tanks (60T) but it has quite a short body,  and it's going to look a bit ridiculous if i keep attaching more Wing strakes to add fuel. 40% fuel fraction on an oxidizer free design should get us there nonstop,  but makes for a v big ship

It does not matter whether you stop or not, time matters (the cargo must be hauled by one ship only BTW)

[sturmhauke]

If we set up infrastructure in advance (fuel stations, support craft, etc.) do you want to see all those launches and transits and whatnot, or do you only care about the main cargo ship?

[Rover 6428]

14 minutes ago, sturmhauke said:

If we set up infrastructure in advance (fuel stations, support craft, etc.) do you want to see all those launches and transits and whatnot, or do you only care about the main cargo ship?

I care only if they are used, how they get there is not my problem

16 minutes ago, sturmhauke said:

If we set up infrastructure in advance (fuel stations, support craft, etc.) do you want to see all those launches and transits and whatnot, or do you only care about the main cargo ship?

I care only if they are used, how they get there is not my problem

If you know how to inform Matt Lowne about this challenge, please do 

2 hours ago, AeroGav said:

If the theme is Fedex,  that means commercial trucking ops,  meaning an emphasis on rapid transit, low costs (as much re-use as possible, or the cheapest expendables possible), and you would expect infrastructure (truck stops) to exist.

So,  would an SSTO, with a gas station at Minmus and another in the Jool system be ok?

I started to build an SSTO with 4 ore big ore tanks (60T) but it has quite a short body,  and it's going to look a bit ridiculous if i keep attaching more Wing strakes to add fuel. 40% fuel fraction on an oxidizer free design should get us there nonstop,  but makes for a v big ship

edit - hmm  just test flew this thing,   only gets  to orbit with 550 m/s left.       It's just a bit small for what it's carrying -

Dry Mass 49.5 Tons

Ore  60 T

Liquid Fuel  49.5 T

Gross  162.5

Delta V with full tanks is just a hair over 2800,   so even if I top it off in Kerbin orbit,  it's not got a huge amount to spare for the Jool Transfer burn.     Hmm..   should i keep going with this airplane or scrap it for something with a longer wheelbase?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/woyypbun7fegshs/Rita Orer2.craft?dl=0
Definitely needs more Strakes...

  Hide contents

 

....pedal to the metal,  no stop till Kansas..

 

 

First of all: wow, that SSTO has a lot of things going on.

Second of all: It does not have to be an SSTO, it could just be a rocket for all I care

Third of all: Love your enthusiasm

[sturmhauke]

50 minutes ago, Rover6428 said:

If you know how to inform Matt Lowne about this challenge, please do 

@Matt Lowne, paging @Matt Lowne... Your presence has been requested for the FedEx Kerbin - Laythe shipping challenge.

[Rover 6428]

To prove the legitimacy of your success, please either make a video of the flight, or make a slideshow 

Edited October 10, 2018 by Rover6428

[Ultimate Steve]

Well... The scale of the OP image just got to me, just now noticed the little space shuttle!

@Rover6428 Do you mind if I do my attempt in 1.3.1? And would Kerbal Joint Reinforcement be allowed?

[Rover 6428]

42 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said:

Well... The scale of the OP image just got to me, just now noticed the little space shuttle!

@Rover6428 Do you mind if I do my attempt in 1.3.1? And would Kerbal Joint Reinforcement be allowed?

You can do it in 1.3.1, but it must be stock

[Ultimate Steve]

Just now, Rover6428 said:

You can do it in 1.3.1, but it must be stock

Okay. Are mods that do not affect physics (informational and visual) okay? I can take KJR out of my GameData folder but I don't currently have a hard stock installation, but once I remove KER there are no physics changing mods in there.

[Rover 6428]

1 minute ago, Ultimate Steve said:

Okay. Are mods that do not affect physics (informational and visual) okay? I can take KJR out of my GameData folder but I don't currently have a hard stock installation, but once I remove KER there are no physics changing mods in there.

If you mean looking good mods, then ok

[linuxgurugamer]

On 10/9/2018 at 9:32 AM, Rover6428 said:

 

Where did you get this picture from?

[Ultimate Steve]

Okay, call me crazy... I might not finish this, but I'm attempting to do 1000 tons of ore to Laythe.

I just want to check and see if this mission profile is okay - can I keep the main mothership in orbit and drop the "container" full of ore down to the surface?

Also, I still have KJR installed, but I'm going to take it out soon, I want a proof of concept before I have to take it out and add 8 bajillion struts...

Progress on the drop pod:

[sturmhauke]

That's a weird space mushroom you got there.

[qzgy]

6 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Where did you get this picture from?

I would imagine a google search, but putting it through google image search this deviantart post is what showed up https://www.deviantart.com/stoupa/art/Cargo-Ship-498056824

Neat challenge though. Might have to give it a shot....

On 10/9/2018 at 1:39 PM, AeroGav said:

Definitely needs more Strakes...

Course it does

[Rover 6428]

10 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Where did you get this picture from?

Internet

9 hours ago, Ultimate Steve said:

Okay, call me crazy... I might not finish this, but I'm attempting to do 1000 tons of ore to Laythe.

I just want to check and see if this mission profile is okay - can I keep the main mothership in orbit and drop the "container" full of ore down to the surface?

Also, I still have KJR installed, but I'm going to take it out soon, I want a proof of concept before I have to take it out and add 8 bajillion struts...

Progress on the drop pod:

yeah, as soon as the drop pod and the rest of the ship survive.

[Dafni]

9 hours ago, Ultimate Steve said:

..., I want a proof of concept before I have to take it out and add 8 bajillion struts....

With clever auto-strutting you might get away with a only a few hundred struts

Seriously though, I still play 1.3.1 too and I never used KJR since autostruts became a thing. Needs a bit of thought but works just fine.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Dafni

[AeroGav]

I'm struggling to stay focussed on this mission because at the end of the day it's just a flight to Laythe, but anyway.   Here is footage of the NERV engine ascent to orbit.   This thing is pretty underpowered, only 6 nervs pushing us.   Fortunately , our lift to drag ratio is pretty damn good, over 3.5 to 1,  which makes it all possible.  The 2.5m crewed bits and ore tanks have surprisingly low drag,  and wing parts tend to bring up the average too - and we got a few of those (!)

 

After reaching orbit,  we dock with my orbital fuel depot, which is resupplied from a Minmus ISRU operation.   The place is called Gus' Gas,  and like most truck stops they offer a few extra amenities besides fuel.   Haldorf purchases one of the giant Terry's Chocolate Orange's  and the  4 x 2L K-Kola Value Pack.      Tramal takes the other Orange as well as a paperback called "50 shades of green",   while Padorf uses his jetpack to obtain a series of periodicals from the top shelf of the magazine rack.

Spoiler

 

Sadly for me the actual pumping gas part was no fun at all.  I usually build self refuelling spaceplanes with their own mining gear,  having to manually transfer to every damn strake on this airplane was a miserable job - and i've got to do it all again when i reach Laythe..     

[Ultimate Steve]

Alright, I'm probably going to have to cancel my attempt, unfortunately. I got the drop pod and the reusable second transfer stage done and 90% tested, but then I took out KJR and the game does not like it when there is 1000 tons pressing down on a single 2.5m joint... I tried a few different autostrut options, and no luck. Before physics even starts, it seems, the entire drop pod falls and phases through the rest of the ship.

I can't use heaviest part autostrut, because the heaviest part is a fuel tank, and when the drop pod is decoupled it's an ore tank, meaning two different configurations have to work. I can't do root part because the root changes.

I still can experiment with hundreds of normal struts, but this top section is already around 350 parts, not counting the first half of the transfer stage or the launch vehicle... It might end up too big for my computer to handle.

Also my internet went out so I'm using my school laptop at school, so I don't have pictures right now.

And that's just trying to make it withstand 1g, during the Laythe landing profile I had the accelerometer pegged at 15g...

 

[Snark]

Various posts have been removed, which completely derailed the thread into a lengthy and somewhat acerbic off-topic debate about, of all things, Google image searching.

Folks, this is a challenge thread; let's try to keep the conversation here at least reasonably related to the challenge?  And, if it's not too much to hope for, in a reasonably friendly fashion, without criticism of our fellow forum members?

Also, please do not "backseat moderate".  Don't tell other people how to post or how not to post; it's not your place, and it's against forum rules (specifically, 3.2).  You're not a moderator, so please don't try to moderate.  If you think someone is doing something so inappropriate that they're actually breaking forum rules, then please just report the post, which will ping the moderator team and we can have a look.  It's what we're for.

Thank you for your understanding.

[FleshJeb]

12 hours ago, AeroGav said:

Sadly for me the actual pumping gas part was no fun at all.  I usually build self refuelling spaceplanes with their own mining gear,  having to manually transfer to every damn strake on this airplane was a miserable job - and i've got to do it all again when i reach Laythe..     

No one who flies planes should be without TAC Fuel Balancer.