Kerbal Space Program Update 1.5 Grand Discussion thread

[Dafni]

52 minutes ago, Stewcumber said:

Has anyone else experienced much longer load times since the update? I've been building a ship of 100 parts and it will take a good 2 minutes loading up the craft, and then back into the SPH, and also back to the KSC overview and even back to the main menu. It also got worse the longer I played. 

I only have one active ship and no mods so something has gone wrong somewhere! 

Previously it was fine, only a few seconds to load anything. I have a 4770k overclocked and 8GB RAM

Check how much RAM KSP uses when it is slow like that. I have a strong feeling the new version of KSP has a huge memory leak.

[spacepassion]

verrà inserita la versione basata su sistemi x86?

Moderator edit: 

Quote

will the version based on x86 systems be inserted?

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by Vanamonde
Please post in English outside of the international subforums.

[klgraham1013]

9 hours ago, Dafni said:

Check how much RAM KSP uses when it is slow like that. I have a strong feeling the new version of KSP has a huge memory leak.

Not just a feeling.

[Gaba_Kerman]

My ksp won't run. it will launch (through steam) and will immediately turn to black with only my cursor. Has anyone else had this issue and if so, how do I fix it?

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, Gaba_Kerman said:

My ksp won't run. it will launch (through steam) and will immediately turn to black with only my cursor. Has anyone else had this issue and if so, how do I fix it?

I have not had the problem but a fresh post in the support forum with your log file would do nothing but help.

[AVaughan]

12 hours ago, spacepassion said:

verrà inserita la versione basata su sistemi x86?

Moderator edit: 

will the version based on x86 systems be inserted?

I think that all the new part variants means that 1.5.x now uses too much RAM to run acceptable on 32 bit systems.  I think that is why Squad have dropped 32 bit support.

[MrFancyPL]

I don't really think anything was fixed about the landing legs. They apply massive forses when spring is set to 0.05, and they drift when weight of vessel is small (<1t)

Edit:

Objects are drifitng only when they are not supported from 4 sides (front back left right). Also objects are woobling under phisics timewaro

Edited November 3, 2018 by MrFancyPL

[Omaha]

I have also noticed that hiccups (maybe a second or so freeze) occur when creating a maneuver node, or adjusting one such that it crosses an SOI boundary.  It makes planning maneuvers arduous, particularly trying to dial in an encounter.

[MikeO89]

On 10/20/2018 at 10:51 PM, AVaughan said:

@JPLRepo A couple of weeks ago someone from Squad mentioned in https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/178756-ksp-weekly-the-moon-race/ 

 

This seems to be the relevant changelog entry.

 

 

After playing with 1.5.x for a while, my impression is that the bouncing of landers is actually worse.  (I don't play much with planes, so I admit haven't tested them).

That was in a completely stock version of 1.5.1 (zero mods).  The initial landing was with everything at default settings.  That is more bounces than I experienced with similar designs in 1.4.5.  (I count about 7 bounces during the first landing.  The last time I landed a lander on Minmus in 1.4.5 it had about 2 bounces.  (Admittedly a different, heavier design, with heavier landing legs).

Why is damper always set so low?  (A real world car with such poor shock absorbers would be completely and dangerously unroadworthy).  A damper should absorb a portion of the downward velocity energy during spring compression, and a portion of the spring's energy during spring extension, effectively reducing the velocity of the craft with every bounce.  This damper seems to be almost non-existent.  Also why is the damper limited to 2?    

 

Short vid I made of FASA Apollo LEM legs at touchdown. The only legs I've used so far that land like this with no bounce.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by MikeO89

[JPLRepo]

46 minutes ago, MikeO89 said:

Short vid I made of FASA Apollo LEM legs at touchdown. The only legs I've used so far that land like this

https://player.vimeo.com/video/299306969" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0"

 

Edit. I can't figure out how to get this vid to play instead of just showing the link.

That would be - if I'm not mistaken - because the FASA mod legs - aren't legs. they have no suspension.

[MikeO89]

50 minutes ago, JPLRepo said:

That would be - if I'm not mistaken - because the FASA mod legs - aren't legs. they have no suspension.

No suspension. Exactly. They are legs without suspension. Something apparently for some reason Squad either doesn't know how to do are just plain won't do it.

Edited November 6, 2018 by MikeO89

[Lisias]

13 minutes ago, MikeO89 said:

No suspension. Exactly. They are legs without suspension. Something apparently for some reason Squad either doesn't know how to do are just plain won't do it.

Without suspension, the shock would be integrally transfered to the hull in a big great THUD, and you would have exploding parts by the craft on hard landings.

You can use trusses for that, no need for Squad to change anything.

I didn't used FASA yet, but as they are using trusses (disguised as legs), they must had made them unrealistically resistant to shock (as well the parts in which they are connected). Not bad if you want to play without too much hassle, but would ruin the game for the ones willingly to play "real". Engineering is hard (even on KSP!)

Edited November 6, 2018 by Lisias
Typos and kraken damned bad autocompletions

[MikeO89]

4 hours ago, Lisias said:

Without suspension, the shock would be integrally transfered to the hull in a big great THUD, and you would have exploding parts by the craft on hard landings.

You can use trusses for that, no need for Squad to change anything.

I didn't used FASA yet, but as they are using trusses (disguised as legs), they must had made them unrealistically resistant to shock (as well the parts in which they are connected). Not bad if you want to play without too much hassle, but would ruin the game for the ones willingly to play "real". Engineering is hard (even on KSP!)

The way Squad implements the spring and damper in the ksp legs in not even close to being realistic. It's about the most unrealistic thing in the game. Squad gets a lot of things right in this game but a realistic landing of space craft is not one of them. A real spacecraft has spring and damper but it's used to land the spacecraft taking up some of the shock. It does NOT land the way spacecrafts land in this game (using stock landing legs). It does not hit the ground, squash halfway down and then spring back up, sometimes even off the ground (making the spacecraft feel like it doesn't have any mass), and then tilt side to side. I don't know how you can look at those two landing videos and tell which one simulates the most realistic looking landing. Look at a spacex falcon landing or Apollo footage from inside the craft at landing. There is no movement when it hits the ground disturbing the spacecraft, the spring and damper is dialed in precisely to make sure that doesn't happen. In ksp, the stock landing legs make sure that will happen. I agree that there is spring and damper in landing legs (there is actually spring and damper in those FASA legs, it's just implemented a lot better), but it's there to ensure the craft sticks the landing, not to have pogo stick landings. Show me a truss with hinges or one that expands and retracts and I'll use it.

Edited November 7, 2018 by MikeO89

[Chel]

30 minutes ago, MikeO89 said:

The way Squad implements the spring and damper in the ksp legs in not even close to being realistic. It's about the most unrealistic thing in the game. Squad gets a lot of things right in this game but a realistic landing of space craft is not one of them. A real spacecraft has spring and damper but it's used to land the spacecraft taking up some of the shock. It does NOT land the way spacecrafts land in this game (using stock landing legs). It does not hit the ground, squash halfway down and then spring back up, sometimes even off the ground (making the spacecraft feel like it doesn't have any mass), and then tilt side to side. I don't know how you can look at those two landing videos and tell which one simulates the most realistic landing. Look at a spacex falcon landing or Apollo footage from inside the craft at landing. There is no movement when it hits the ground disturbing the spacecraft, the spring and damper is dialed in to make sure that doesn't happen. In ksp, the stock landing legs make sure that will happen. I agree that there is spring and damper in landing legs (there is actually spring and damper in those FASA legs, it's just implemented a lot better), but it's there to ensure the craft sticks the landing, not to have pogo stick landings. Show me a truss with hinges or one that expands and retracts and I'll use it.

KSP isn't meant to be a completely realistic full-simulation game. If you want that, go play Orbiter or other simulation games. KSP is just a game about building rockets and running a space program. There are mods for KSP that change things to be more realistic (FAR, RO, RSS), but just nitpicking the way that the stock landing legs work isn't going to help a lot

[Lisias]

59 minutes ago, MikeO89 said:

I don't know how you can look at those two landing videos and tell which one simulates the most realistic looking landing

Because absolutely none of them does it.

One just don't absorb anything, integrally transmitting the shock to the main hull - the more unrealistic of the videos, besides looking as it should.

The other, hugely exacerbates the shock absorbing to the point of being ludicrous. Well, KSP is a game, being one of its goals to be fun - and ludicrous is fun. So… Yeah, I take KSP way any time.  

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Lisias
bad choose of words fixed. =P

[Chel]

3 minutes ago, Lisias said:

KSP is a game, being one of its goals to be fun - and ludicrous is fun. So… Yeah, I take KSP way any time.  

Exactly. It isn't like Orbiter and doesn't try to be like it. It's just a little game about building rockets and having a (literal) blast

[MikeO89]

To each his own way of playing I guess. You want ludicrous and toy like, no problem. I like a little more realism to feel like I'm actually doing a space mission rather than flying a space toy. No right or wrong way to play this game, I play to get as much real feel as I can get into it (and for the most part, this game does do that for me). That's how I have fun. It's why I brought this up. Something IMO Squad does need to address. They could make two versions of the legs to have options. Keep the ludicrous ones and makes some others that absorb the shock without having to go ludicrous and visual about it.

Edited November 7, 2018 by MikeO89

[Chel]

2 minutes ago, MikeO89 said:

To each his own way of playing I guess. You want ludicrous and toy like, no problem. I like a little more realism to feel like I'm actually doing a space mission rather than flying a space toy. No right or wrong way to play this game, I play to get as much real feel as I can get into it (and for the most part, this game does do that for me). That's how I have fun. It's why I brought this up. Something IMO Squad does need to address. They could make two versions of the legs to have options. Keep the ludicrous ones and makes some others that absorb the shock without having to go ludicrous and visual about it.

Ok, if you would like realistic landing legs then post it in Suggestions and Development 

[MikeO89]

I've already done that long ago. Seems like nobody cares but me. It's so lonely at the bottom being crushed by landing legs. lol

Edited November 7, 2018 by MikeO89

[KerBaz]

Got problem with the burn time when using SSTO. Especially using the nerv engine.

Also, when I want to dock in the orbit, the "target" indicator is not appear in the view. It only appeared in navball.

 

[klgraham1013]

9 hours ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

KSP isn't meant to be a completely realistic full-simulation game. If you want that, go play Orbiter or other simulation games. KSP is just a game about building rockets and running a space program. There are mods for KSP that change things to be more realistic (FAR, RO, RSS), but just nitpicking the way that the stock landing legs work isn't going to help a lot

This comment is just depressing.

Okay.  Fine.  Let's do this then.  Let's ignore realism.  Tell me how your lander bouncing 5 times makes the game more fun and enjoyable.  I'd argue, if Squad were actually going for a more "game-y" experience, they'd make sure landings were easy, fun, and didn't really require suspension settings.  At least on the users end.  ...but here we are.

[Chel]

2 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

This comment is just depressing.

Okay.  Fine.  Let's do this then.  Let's ignore realism.  Tell me how your lander bouncing 5 times makes the game more fun and enjoyable.  I'd argue, if Squad were actually going for a more "game-y" experience, they'd make sure landings were easy, fun, and didn't really require suspension settings.  At least on the users end.  ...but here we are.

KSP isn't supposed to be super-realistic, nor is it supposed to be super-unrealistic.

They had to make sacrifices between realism and having fun and playability. Not everybody wants a super-realistic game. Not everybody wants a super-unrealistic game. But they tried to make it both semi-realistic and still fun to play and understand.

[AVaughan]

1 minute ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

They had to make sacrifices between realism and having fun and playability.

My opinion is why have shock absorbers on the landing legs, then make the default damper setting being virtually no damping, and the max damper setting being almost no damping.  And as I stated up thread, my impression is that this behaviour is worse in 1.5.x, than in 1.4.5.   (That is despite us being told that landing legs would be better in 1.5.x).  Sure ksp doesn't have to be realistic, but in this case, I can't see a valid reason it should be this unrealistic.

[Superfluous J]

2 hours ago, KerBaz said:

Got problem with the burn time when using SSTO. Especially using the nerv engine.

This is a known bug that is presumably going to be fixed.

2 hours ago, KerBaz said:

Also, when I want to dock in the orbit, the "target" indicator is not appear in the view. It only appeared in navball.

I may need more information for this one. The indicator only shows up on the navball. If the thing you've targeted is a ship, it will have a little green box around it if it's close enough, and if it's even closer that box will say how many meters away it is.

If you have both of these, that's all you get. If you're missing the green one, how close to your target are you?

[RealKerbal3x]

2 hours ago, KerBaz said:

Also, when I want to dock in the orbit, the "target" indicator is not appear in the view. It only appeared in navball.

Try pressing F4. That toggles the target brackets in flight view. Yours are probably just toggled off.

Edited November 7, 2018 by RealKerbal3x