Dislike Reactions

[0111narwhalz]

Anyone remember Green Iron Crown? The idea of negative reputation has already been considered, tried, and ultimately rejected.

[Gapone]

:(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

[KSK]

On 12/24/2018 at 6:13 PM, GDJ said:

That could be fun!
Secretly, I would love to befriend a forum user that had -1,000 rep points. That's a fun and interesting person.

Or possibly a troll who's just trying draw attention to themselves and be controversial for the pure devilment of it. The internet isn't short of those.

I agree that a dislike function would be a terrible idea. Speaking personally, I hand out likes for all sorts of reasons, most of them disconnected to the actual quality of the post. I'm willing to bet that I'm not the only one. Hence 'like' becomes a bit of a misnomer anyway. As would 'dislike' - it's a blunt instrument of a response that covers a lot of possible reactions to a post, and none of them very well.

I mean, what does 'disliking' something even mean in this context:

I don't like your post because reasons?
I respectfully disagree with your argument?
I reject your argument because it doesn't fit with my worldview but neither can I think of a good counterargument?
Your post disagrees with a prevailing groupthink, so I'm jumping on the bandwagon and 'disliking it'? 

None of those options seem like a good enough reason to implement a dislike feature, although please feel free to add any other options that I've missed. In my opinion, a better response to any or all of the above is a politely worded reply, not a lazy downvote.

Edit. Also, again in my personal opinion, having 'like' and 'dislike' options would tend to polarise any debate into 'you're either 100% for this or 100% against it', aka the fanbois vs the haters. Again, far too much of that nonsense on the internet already and its squeezing out nuanced debate.

 

Edited January 2, 2019 by KSK

[tater]

I'm unsure what I'd think of that as an option. Aside from odd trolls that show up from time to time (that we might all enjoy down-voting), it would have little utility. Usually argument is enough (to either change minds, or to illuminate why you support, say, one space exploration architecture over another).

[YNM]

I suppose the point is that this is a forum, not Reddit or Youtube. Stuff that stays here, stays here; stuff that are not worthy to stay here on the whole are either locked down by moderators and sink down the flow of new posts or outright vetted and disposed off forever (don't ask me where it is disposed).

Even the idea of "reactions" itself is odd - a forum is meant for discussion and talks, not votes (there's a separate poll option for that); But over time I've seen the "like" (massive quote-unquote there) buttons are there not to raise someone's popularity (or sink it down), but as a way to say "thank you" and save yourself one post saying "thank you".

Edited January 7, 2019 by YNM

[TheKSPBeginner]

yes please

[Ozymandias_the_Goat]

23 hours ago, YNM said:

Even the idea of "reactions" itself is odd - a forum is meant for discussion and talks, not votes (there's a separate poll option for that); But over time I've seen the "like" (massive parenthesis there) buttons are there not to raise someone's popularity (or sink it down), but as a way to say "thank you" and save yourself one post saying "thank you".

Indeed, although I find that the reputation system is good at doing just that, highlighting reputable users that are more likely to provide helpful feedback, simply due to the fact that they have been doing that for a long time. Although, the universal reaction button is somewhat vague, I have seen other forums where you can give specialized reactions (such as laugh for humorous content, thanking for someone who helped you through a problem, etc.) yet have no designated dislike button. That is the purpose of moderators, not the forum, to determine when something crosses the line.

[DDE]

The only genuine dislike button that should be here is "Report post", to be used sparingly.

Someone mentioned Reddit.

It encourages stupid bandwagoning to the point where I've seen a moderator of r/space go against the flow and get downvoted to the bottom of the thread because their factual information went against the inbound wave of r/all proles.

[Red Iron Crown]

There's also the phenomenon of spite downvoting, when a user gets upset with another user for whatever reason and systematically goes through every post of their history and downvotes all of them out of pure malice. An active poster can lose a thousand Internet points just by setting off the wrong person, whether legit or not. While I'm not a big believer in the value or importance of internet points, this sort of thing does make for hard feelings. 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Red Iron Crown

[Gapone]

:(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

IF THERE WAS A DOWNWOTE OPTION I WOULD DOWNVOTE ALL OF US WHO DISAGREE WITH ME YOU @#^&%*^&^&@*^

Edited January 6, 2019 by Snark
Unnecessarily eye-hurtingly gigantic font reduced to polite size

[Snark]

2 hours ago, Gapone said:

IF THERE WAS A DOWNWOTE OPTION I WOULD DOWNVOTE ALL OF US WHO DISAGREE WITH ME YOU @#^&%*^&^&@*^

And this post is a perfect example of precisely why having a "dislike" or "downvote" option here in the forum would be an incredibly bad idea, for a variety of reasons, some of which have already been described here in this thread by polite, helpful people.

For one thing, it would be highly subject to abuse, such as exactly what you describe you'd like to do.  For another, it would be completely unhelpful (again, like your post) because it would just complain about "I don't like" without actually providing any constructive reasons why not.

That's why we don't have a "dislike" reaction here in the forum, and never will.

By the way:  It's clear that you feel differently-- and feel very strongly about it.  And that's fine!    It's perfectly okay to disagree, and to disagree strongly.

However, simply yelling that you don't like something doesn't actually help anyone, since it doesn't help us understand your reasons for feeling that way.  Certainly you're unlikely to persuade anybody to your point of view just by yelling "I don't like".  (Excellent reason why we don't have a "dislike" button, right there.)  So, seeing as how you care a lot about your point of view, why not explain it to us?  i.e. instead of just using a big font and boldface to yell "I don't like" (which doesn't accomplish anything), why not share your rationale with us?  Give us your viewpoint in a way that's actually helpful to us:  i.e. why you want this, how you think it would help forum members or improve the forum experience, etc.

Thank you for your understanding.

[kerbiloid]

3 hours ago, Gapone said:

IF THERE WAS A DOWNWOTE OPTION I WOULD DOWNVOTE ALL OF US WHO DISAGREE WITH ME YOU @#^&%*^&^&@*^

You may even ban them right now.

[Gapone]

12 hours ago, Snark said:

And this post is a perfect example of precisely why having a "dislike" or "downvote" option here in the forum would be an incredibly bad idea, for a variety of reasons, some of which have already been described here in this thread by polite, helpful people.

Isn't this for this? (disliking people you not agree with)

[severedsolo]

19 minutes ago, Gapone said:

Isn't this for this? (disliking people you not agree with)

No. Simply "disliking" someones post because you disagree with it does absolutely nothing. This is a forum - it's meant to promote discussion. If you disagree with someone, tell them why you disagree with them, start a conversation about it (politely). The forum would die pretty quickly if nobody actually talked, wouldn't you agree?

For me at least, the like button is not "I approve of/endorse this post" it's "I agree with you" or "I acknowledge your post, but don't have anything to add" - whereas if you disagree, you should have something to add, you should put your side across.

Edited January 7, 2019 by severedsolo

[Gapone]

2 minutes ago, severedsolo said:

No.

What?

[YNM]

5 minutes ago, Gapone said:

Isn't this for this? (disliking people you not agree with)

You can mute the person you don't like.

 

But may I remind you the hazard of only having a positive feedback.

We already live in the bubble, I don't want to live in yet another one in this forum.

But I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[Gapone]

Can't watch videos, sorry :)

[severedsolo]

6 minutes ago, YNM said:

But may I remind you the hazard of only having a positive feedback.

I don't think anyone is saying "only give positive feedback" - in fact if you look at my post above, I say the opposite.

The forums are supposed to foster discussion, some of the most interesting discussions I've ever had were with people I disagree with - but simply "disliking" a post doesn't foster discussion. If I'm wrong (in any post, not just this one), tell me why i'm wrong (I most likely won't agree with you, but I'll at least listen to what you have to say)

Edited January 7, 2019 by severedsolo

[YNM]

13 minutes ago, Gapone said:

Can't watch videos, sorry

 

7 minutes ago, severedsolo said:

I don't think anyone is saying "only give positive feedback" - in fact if you look at my post above, I say the opposite.

Basically you need a negative feedback and positive feedback to be stable.

And we already have filters around us from things we flinch from.

This forum is supposed to be the balanced place where all feedbacks are present and you can see every single one of it. "Disliking (or even liking)" something on the forum through a button or otherwise is just making those that we flinch from disappear and those we agree with more prominent - more positive than negative.

Unless the content is just too nauseating, or is clearly an advert, or is far too physically irritating (flashing lights, large gaps, those that makes your browser crashes etc.), or too far off the topic, then we already have the solution : a report button and a team of moderators and admins to remove / separate them. (there's also a block option as an interim.)

Edited January 7, 2019 by YNM

[severedsolo]

6 minutes ago, YNM said:

This forum is supposed to be the balanced place where all feedbacks are present and you can see every single one of it. Disliking (or even liking) something is just making those that we flinch from disappear and those we agree with more prominent - more positive than negative.

I disagree - the like button doesn't make posts that you have "liked" appear more prominently (although there is an argument to be made that one's you've liked stand out a little more with the blue bubble).

Controversial topics will probably end up near the top of the list of posts, simply because people will be posting in them more/presenting both sides. As with anything, it's up to us to read both sides. If anything, IMO the natural "forum churn" of more popular posts appearing higher are more of a filter than the like button.

Having said that - I can see how only getting "likes" may reinforce your viewpoint - if 20 people "like" your post, but only one person bothers to refute it, it may make you feel like you are in the majority - even if that wasn't the case.

Edited January 7, 2019 by severedsolo

[YNM]

31 minutes ago, severedsolo said:

I can see how only getting "likes" may reinforce your viewpoint - if 20 people "like" your post, but only one person bothers to refute it, it may make you feel like you are in the majority - even if that wasn't the case.

Well, yeah.

This is why I personally see it as a "thank you" button to save yourself one post saying "thank you". Utilizing the "like" button for fame is not a good cause, as much as utilizing a "dislike" button to defame someone.

But I'll always insist that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and opinions won't die just because we ignored it.

Anyway, TL;DR :

Despite the lack of a "dislike" button, there are three easy ways for you to show your dislike to a post :

- Don't read the post

- Report the post

- Reply to the post.

[Val]

1 hour ago, YNM said:

there are three easy ways for you to show your dislike to a post :

- Don't read the post

- Report the post

- Reply to the post.

No one will know if you didn't read it and only moderators will know if you reported a post. And we don't tell anyone, if you reported their post.

The only way to show your dislike is to reply to the post.

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

The dislike reaction should also have options:

"Dislike the post".
"Dislike the poster".
"Dislike the post and its poster, because no good person would post it.".
"Dislike everyone who has liked the post, because no good person would like it.".
"Curse the post. Auto-dislike everyone who will like it."

 

If you "ignore" (i.e. hide) the disliked persons, how can you be sure how much does the mankind dislike you?
Also maybe they are conspiring against you, while you even don't see this.

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by kerbiloid

[DDE]

10 hours ago, severedsolo said:

The forum would die pretty quickly if nobody actually talked, wouldn't you agree?

Depends on the forum; this one, probably. But the true cesspits?

[Excessively political cartoon about the abysmal state of Internet debate removed, because politics. Please don't poke the bears, guys.
Executive summary of the deleted image:  "Places like r/politics on Reddit are cesspits where knee-jerk mass-upvotes and mass-downvotes have eliminated intelligent discussion and lowered the level of discourse to illiterate name-calling."
- Thanks, the moderators]

Spoiler

I know I’m skirting forum rules by an inch, but AFAIK the nuttery that goes on at various default subreddits - the gratuitous gilding (which is internet points bought with real money), the high ratio of votes to comments and the overt aggressive upvote/downvote botting, plus a large chunk of the actual comments disagreeing, only to be downvoted or deleted by mods - is uncontroversial.

More on point, one observation I have from Reddit is that when someone actually leaves an explanation alongside a dislike on a popular post, it ends up downvoted, which, on default settings, outright hides it from future users.

10 hours ago, YNM said:

And we already have filters around us from things we flinch from.

This forum is supposed to be the balanced place where all feedbacks are present and you can see every single one of it. "Disliking (or even liking)" something on the forum through a button or otherwise is just making those that we flinch from disappear and those we agree with more prominent - more positive than negative.

The problem is that “flinching from” is often an irrational reaction. Most people, for example, flinch from anything that tells them they’re wrong.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Snark
Cartoon removed that was excessively political

[Superfluous J]

7 hours ago, severedsolo said:

If I'm wrong (in any post, not just this one), tell me why i'm wrong (I most likely won't agree with you, but I'll at least listen to what you have to say)

What if the only way to properly tell you you're wrong about dislikes is to dislike your post without comment, but I can't do that because it's disabled?

I JUST BLEW YOUR MIND.