[KSP 1.8 - 1.12+] - Probes Before Crew [PBC] Version 2.93

[amarius1]

3 hours ago, _Zee said:

You're right about the github repo being very out of date. It was never used after I made it and PBC updates are rare these days, so its been neglected ever since. I appreciate you submitting the pull requests though.

I can't say if/when I'll be able to look over new support patches for currently unsupported mods, the handful of recent "maintenance" updates (2.91 - 2.93) that I pushed were a rare exception of free time. But I welcome these submissions because I never know when I might find that extra time again. Glancing through them, it looks like most of what you've submitted is support for the solar-system overhaul mods - very cool. I'll leave the github up for now if any risk takers want to just grab your extra .cfg files to toss in with their PBC folder to give your configs a shot. If anyone wants to give this a go, please let us know how @whitespacekilla's configs worked out for you!

If you're open to it, a cfg with support for Near Future - Exploration would really be the most helpful right now. I know the antenna ranges and part placements for that one are not in sync with PBC right now and it may be awhile before I'm able to update. Even a rough draft written in my usual format with all the parts listed would be a huge time saver. Many thanks if you do, no worries if not.
 

This is partially incorrect. PBC can be updated from an old version to a new one in a running save without problems (unless explicitly stated otherwise, which hasn't happened since before KSP 1.8)
You can test this right now by starting a game with PBC 2.90, save it, close out of the game, replace your PBC folder with PBC 2.93, and you will see the changes to your tech tree in your saved game when you load it up.

However, @kcs123 is correct in that the CTT itself cannot be added or removed from a running save. You must start the new game with ModuleManager and CommunityTechTree already installed.
@amarius1, Doublecheck that MM and CTT are installed alongside PBC in your gamedata folder, and if you're still having issues post your logs.

I do have them installed alongside PBC as my standard install. I used to have PBC in a previous install but now on reinstalling ksp and remaking my mod list it stopped working

[kcs123]

18 hours ago, _Zee said:

This is partially incorrect. PBC can be updated from an old version to a new one in a running save without problems (unless explicitly stated otherwise, which hasn't happened since before KSP 1.8)
You can test this right now by starting a game with PBC 2.90, save it, close out of the game, replace your PBC folder with PBC 2.93, and you will see the changes to your tech tree in your saved game when you load it up.

However, @kcs123 is correct in that the CTT itself cannot be added or removed from a running save. You must start the new game with ModuleManager and CommunityTechTree already installed.

Yes, I was thinking on second scenario, where previously PCB was not used, or there was runnig save with stock or some other technological tree.

15 hours ago, amarius1 said:

I do have them installed alongside PBC as my standard install. I used to have PBC in a previous install but now on reinstalling ksp and remaking my mod list it stopped working

It seems that you have messed up something after reinstalling KSP and your mods. And you have given too little data to be able to help you. Did you try to check out is PCB working on your older saved game from previous install, or you have tried on new game on fresh KSP install ? Did you try to start new career game after you have installed PCB and checked if it works ? You should provide more precise data for someone to be able to help you. Log files, screenshots of gamedata folder, more detailed descriptions ...

[_Zee]

@amarius1 exactly as kcs123 said above. We need more information to help you. Either post your log files or a screenshot of your GameData folder.

I have a feeling you've nested your folders incorrectly, but that's a wild guess without more info.

[Sola1517]

I found your mod via Mike Aben's playthrough and would like to try it, but am having difficulty.

Using CKAN it's telling me that your mod is not compatible with 1.12 / 1.11 / or 1.10 due to Celestial Body Science editor not being up to date past 1.8

I am new to modding and have been unable to find an explanation.

[Jacke]

On 12/31/2021 at 10:52 PM, Sola1517 said:

I found your mod via Mike Aben's playthrough and would like to try it, but am having difficulty.

Using CKAN it's telling me that your mod is not compatible with 1.12 / 1.11 / or 1.10 due to Celestial Body Science editor not being up to date past 1.8

I am new to modding and have been unable to find an explanation.

The fix for this is an important part of using CKAN, the compatible game versions.

Settings > Compatible game versions

Which will pop up the Compatible Game Versions window.

Here you need to know a bit more, the major breaking versions of KSP.  The last one was between KSP 1.7 and 1.8.  Mods for 1.8 and later can be usable on KSP 1.12, even if they contain a .dll.  So you can checkmark every version of KSP from 1.8 on, 1.9, 1.10, 1.11, and 1.12.

HOWEVER, you need to check compatibility when you pull in an old mod by checking out its forum thread.  Fortunately, CKAN really helps to look that up.  On the CKAN entry for Probes Before Crew, switch the tab in the lower right to Relationships.  Check the hard dependencies, the stars, 3 here.  Switch to each mod in turn by double-clicking on it in the lower right Relationships tab and it switches you to that mod's line.  You will see that Celestial Body Science Editor is only for max KSP 1.8.8.  Switch the lower right tab back to Metadata and follow the first link to its forum page.  Go to the last page of that post (currently page 30, link here) and read backwards from recent.

You're looking to see someone else report how well the mod works in KSP 1.12.  You'll find there's a few issues and the everybusy @linuxgurugamer has posted two fixes for it.

You need to install the mods, then apply the two fixes manually.  Then hopefully Probes Before Crew will work.

Edited January 1, 2022 by Jacke

[_Zee]

Big thumbs up for that very helpful post @Jacke, thanks for posting. As I've said before I don't use CKAN so I appreciate the assists on these questions. 

Just to add to what you've said, Celestial Body Science Editor has been thoroughly tested and in spite of it's slightly out of date status it's working perfectly with PBC and KSP 1.12.
So for Celestial Body Science Editor specifically, just make sure you apply the manual fixes mentioned by Jacke above.

Edited January 4, 2022 by _Zee

[Sola1517]

Thank you for the thorough explanation.

I may have stumbled upon another solution (probably not proper though).
I reset my game version to 1.12 from 1.8. instead of clearing CKAN for a clean install I simply tried launching it with all the same mods and it seems to be working fine.

Thanks again for your help. 

[PeterGW]

Quote

The fix for this is an important part of using CKAN, the compatible game versions.
...

What an amazingly detailed post. I figured most this out myself a while back (mostly trial, error  and reinstalls than I like to remember) but for someone who is just getting started modding KSP this is pure gold.

[markws44]

Hello. I am also having an issue where the tech tree does not appear to be loading correctly. I have CTT installed. It appears to partially work, as the Mk1 probe is replaced by sputnik at the beginning of the tree, but the arrangement and parts do not match the screenshot of how it should look. Because of this, many parts are unable to be unlocked. There is only one command probe node, with just the Mk2 probe to be unlocked. the Mk1 and mk3 are entirely missing from the tree. I have attached a screenshot of my GameData folder. What am I doing wrong?

[Warhorse]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I can't seem to find an answer in the thread. Do all of the features of this mod work when you start in a non-stock home system (eg Galileo, Whirligig World, etc)?

[_Zee]

On 1/16/2022 at 1:01 AM, markws44 said:

Hello. I am also having an issue where the tech tree does not appear to be loading correctly.
/snip

Looks like you are missing the module manager .dll file. Make sure you pull the "ModuleManager.4.x.x.dll" file out of the folder and place it directly in your GameData Folder. The ModuleManager Folder itself doesn't need to be in GameData, just the .dll

 

On 1/20/2022 at 3:28 AM, Warhorse said:

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I can't seem to find an answer in the thread. Do all of the features of this mod work when you start in a non-stock home system (eg Galileo, Whirligig World, etc)?

All features will work except for the custom contract pack, which will continue to expect the vanilla bodies. The other issue you'll need to be aware of is balancing the rate of science collection yourself.
Otherwise the tech tree will do what it's been designed to, just the same.

Edited January 23, 2022 by _Zee

[Warhorse]

Okay, thank you for answering, that was about what I was expecting.

[RyGuy_McFly]

Hello, just started using this mod and noticed just one small inconsistency. The SP-1 "Clementine", SP-2 "Tangerine", and SP-3 "Mandarin" command pods added in a ReStock+ update a while back seem to come up at the wrong times. Specifically the Clementine is available from the very start. I'm assuming this is unintended.

Worth noting that the parts are stock versions of the Making History DLC's round pods, and get automatically disabled when you have the DLC, which is likely how they've gone unnoticed thus far

EDIT: I just checked the OP and ReStock/ReStock+ are actually not listde as compatible. I just kindof assumed they were I guess. I suppose my question then is will ReStock compatibility be coming in the future?

Edited January 30, 2022 by RyGuy_McFly

[_Zee]

It's been sitting at the top of the voting poll for over a year.  
Current status of a Restock+ update remains: Unlikely.
Reasons being: KSP2 is nearly ready for us, the parts list for Restock+ is massive, I don't personally use Restock+

The caveat to this would be if an outside contributor felt like prepping the patch file for Restock+ with all the parts pasted in my usual patch-file format. That would be like 80% of the work done and then I'd just need to plug the parts into their correct places. I hold zero-expectation for that though, so you probably shouldn't either.

 

[mor128]

Hey,
I wanted to tweak some values in the Zs_ProbesBeforeCrew.cfg but they don't seem to transfer over into my save. Is there anything else I have to do?

[LaureeGrd]

I'm loving the mod! It really pairs well with Strategia, which I also discovered recently.

One thing you may want to take a look to, though: DMagic Orbital Science contracts seem to give A LOT of money and HUGE amounts of science for the early game. Example: A single repeatable Mun magnetic survey contract gave me like 80 science in total and more money (advance + reward) than any of the Mun milestones from PBC's contracts. I'm pointing this out since it is listed as a supported mod, and the slower, more balanced progression is what I've been enjoying the most from PBC.

Guided by your recommended difficulty settings, I have set my reward multipliers on a mid point, and it seems to be just right for both PBC and Strategia, so lowering that to balance those rewards is not an option.

Other contract packs that imo were too OP (although not listed as supported, so this is more like a suggestion) were CleverSat (gives too much funds) and CommNet Relays (gives too much reputation).

I'm glad to help with this if pointed in the right direction, as I'm a newbie in KSP modding but have experience with modding/tweaking other games.

[_Zee]

Welcome to the Forums @LaureeGrd!  Glad to read that you are enjoying the mod.

For the DMagic contract issue that you pointed out, are you referring to the long term survey that requires the vessel stay in orbit for several months? The reward output for these types of contracts generally doesn't bother too much since they require the passage of a considerable amount of time, and the science that you get from parking a satellite in a specific orbit isn't too much unlike over-time-science received from all the ScanSat scanners.

However, I'll agree that ~80 science for a single contract to the Mun is a bit high in the early game, even after 4 months parked in orbit. I don't like to make patches for other contract packs as they are too many and too varied. But I can certainly point you in the right direction to fix this for your own install. 

Open your KSP install folder, navigate to your DMagic Mod folder in Gamedata. The file you want to edit is "DMContracts.cfg" found within "\GameData\DMagicOrbitalScience\Resources".  The top half of the file (from line 199 back up to line 1) contains the 5 contract types offered by DMagic. Each of these has their own science and funds output, you'll see the labels "Funds" and "Science" above each section. Change these as you see fit. I suspect you encountered the "DMMag" contract as the "BaseReward" for that is set to 24, the highest of all 5 contract types. I'd probably just cut it in half down to 12 and you should be all set.

Lemme know how it goes for you, have fun!

Edited April 6, 2022 by _Zee

[LaureeGrd]

On 4/6/2022 at 2:41 PM, _Zee said:

Welcome to the Forums @LaureeGrd!  Glad to read that you are enjoying the mod.

For the DMagic contract issue that you pointed out, are you referring to the long term survey that requires the vessel stay in orbit for several months? The reward output for these types of contracts generally doesn't bother too much since they require the passage of a considerable amount of time, and the science that you get from parking a satellite in a specific orbit isn't too much unlike over-time-science received from all the ScanSat scanners.

However, I'll agree that ~80 science for a single contract to the Mun is a bit high in the early game, even after 4 months parked in orbit. I don't like to make patches for other contract packs as they are too many and too varied. But I can certainly point you in the right direction to fix this for your own install. 

Open your KSP install folder, navigate to your DMagic Mod folder in Gamedata. The file you want to edit is "DMContracts.cfg" found within "\GameData\DMagicOrbitalScience\Resources".  The top half of the file (from line 199 back up to line 1) contains the 5 contract types offered by DMagic. Each of these has their own science and funds output, you'll see the labels "Funds" and "Science" above each section. Change these as you see fit. I suspect you encountered the "DMMag" contract as the "BaseReward" for that is set to 24, the highest of all 5 contract types. I'd probably just cut it in half down to 12 and you should be all set.

Lemme know how it goes for you, have fun!

Thank you! I have indeed found those files, but since I wanted to modify more than one contract pack for my use case, I ended up discovering and using this mod. The two magnetic survey contracts that I got were 15 and 19 days in orbit, not months. Unless me having the time format as 24hs instead of Kerbin's 6hs is making a difference here (I always played with this option so I don't know how the game handles it with the default setting).

I will consider making actual patches with the information you gave me, if it's possible. For now, I just keep an eye on the rewards of the contracts I accept to avoid breaking my preferred progression pace.

 

[MontesVerdes]

Hi _Zee! I've trouble getting the tech tree running, I've seen in the las page of the thread to take ModuleManager.4.2.1.dll to the GameData folder, but this has not solved my issue! I will attach in this message a pic of my GameData folder, my CKAN application and the in game contracts! Thanks for the support in advance and for the mods! I came here because Mike Aben  

 

Quick update: I was missing a celestial body dependency now I get the tech tree but the contracts aren't showing up yet

Edited April 13, 2022 by MontesVerdes

[_Zee]

Welcome to the forums @MontesVerdes. Glad you were able to resolve your issue with the tech tree.

As for the contracts - it looks to be working to me. You have Contract Configurator installed and that's the only requirement, and I see the contract group "Kerbalkind Achievement Records (Offered: 1)".  That group of contracts [Kerbalkind Achievement Records Agency (or K.A.R.A for short)] is provided by PBC. You have to click the group to expand it and show the contracts within. The first one should be "Leave the Launchpad!".

P.S. - I'd be curious to know which video you saw that led you here. You are the second person I've had mention Mike Aben here but each time I go glance at his channel I don't see any of his video's featuring PBC. Cheers!

Edited April 13, 2022 by _Zee

[MontesVerdes]

18 minutes ago, _Zee said:

Welcome to the forums @MontesVerdes. Glad you were able to resolve your issue with the tech tree.

As for the contracts - it looks to be working to me. You have Contract Configurator installed and that's the only requirement, and I see the contract group "Kerbalkind Achievement Records (Offered: 1)".  That group of contracts [Kerbalkind Achievement Records Agency (or K.A.R.A for short)] is provided by PBC. You have to click the group to expand it and show the contracts within. The first one should be "Leave the Launchpad!".
 

Omg I'm so dumb, is my first time ussing mods and I didn't knwo those were from your mod . So everything is fine then, I will start my first playthrough! Thanks again for the mod and support

[ttikkoo]

8 hours ago, _Zee said:

P.S. - I'd be curious to know which video you saw that led you here. You are the second person I've had mention Mike Aben here but each time I go glance at his channel I don't see any of his video's featuring PBC. Cheers!

I'm guessing it's from Mike Aben's "KSP w/ Kerbalism" streams. His streams are on YouTube and his modlist is in the description (e.g. here) - the tech tree he uses is PBC. 

PS. Love PBC and the included contracts - I've tried all the available tech trees and I keep coming back to this one!

[MontesVerdes]

7 hours ago, ttikkoo said:

I'm guessing it's from Mike Aben's "KSP w/ Kerbalism" streams. His streams are on YouTube and his modlist is in the description (e.g. here) - the tech tree he uses is PBC. 

PS. Love PBC and the included contracts - I've tried all the available tech trees and I keep coming back to this one!

That's the one! I've always wanted to play kerbal but with unmanned missions at the start, and then, learning from mike channel tutorials I found that series and loved the PBC mod!

[Vexxel]

I really like the balance this mod adds and I also happen to really like OPM, so I made ScienceParamModifier configs for each OPM body with similar balance to the default.

Download Merge contents with your GameData folder

Source

Edited April 24, 2022 by Vexxel

[BTAxis]

Edit: I was having a problem with changing antenna values introduced by PBC.

Spoiler

I play with both ReStock+ and Kerbalism alongside this mod, and I've noticed something odd with the antennas. PBC somehow alters the Kerbalism-specific stats of some of them. Here's the HG-5, with the stats as provided by Kerbalism:

When I add in PBC it becomes this:

Notice the antenna rating, EC cost and data speed have changed. Some of the altered stats match those of the HG-20 antenna that is added by ReStock+:

I'm not sure what's going on. PBC does not change the locations of these antennas in the tech tree. It doesn't seem to interact with them at all, looking at the patches. It does seem to be PBC that's doing this though, because I removed ReStock+ and the stat change still occurs. Removing PBC, meanwhile, resolves the problem.

I worked it out. PBC does in fact interact with antenna values and Kerbalism apparently calculates its values from the antenna rating. I can rejigger the values in the patches to fit in the ReStock+ antenna better.

Edited April 24, 2022 by BTAxis