[1.8.1-1] [PLEASE FORK ME] Kopernicus & KittopiaTech

[seanth]

A question about line feeds in body descriptions:

I looked at the kittopia dumps for examples, and the Dres example shows \n\n, which is what I assumed it would be. The problem is that when I try it with descriptions for bodies I make, the \n are stripped out by KSP, but a new line is not made.

I also tested \r and \r\n. 

Any advice?

EDIT WITH EXAMPLES

The input I have looks like:

description = The Kraken's Lair\n\nthis should be a new paragraph

And looking at the resulting file in Logs/Kopernicus/:

bodyDescription = The Kraken's Lairthis should be a new paragraph

 

Edited May 23, 2018 by seanth

[Linventor]

You know, there aren't really many ways to really make your own planets. I mean sure, you can have Space Engine make you a planet and export that to KSP, but there's no real easy way to get the atmosphere, orbital info, biomes, surface heights, ocean info, etc done in a single program that makes sense to someone who finds kittopia a bit daunting. Plez halp.

[Pkmniako]

23 minutes ago, Linventor said:

You know, there aren't really many ways to really make your own planets. I mean sure, you can have Space Engine make you a planet and export that to KSP, but there's no real easy way to get the atmosphere, orbital info, biomes, surface heights, ocean info, etc done in a single program that makes sense to someone who finds kittopia a bit daunting. Plez halp.

There are really only 3 things needed to make planets for Kopernicus:

• A image editing software: For the creation on maps. You can always use procedural generators, but it's very important to have a image editing software for editing them for important planet features (For example, specular mapping or Polar Distortion). The best bet is always GIMP, as it's free to download and has pretty much all the same functionalities as Photoshop.
• A text writter: This is how you actually make planets with Kopernicus, by the use of Configuration Files (.cfg). Inside them is every piece of information Kopernicus needs to create a planet in-game. And every variable is in the international system (except geeASL which is in gees). Distances are in meters, orbits are in meters and degrees, atmosphere in pascals (?) etc...
• And sheets of paper and a calculator: No joke, this is the most important part you have to have while making planets. Do you want to have a planet orbiting this far from Kerbin? Just draw it, measure it with a ruler and you have your new semi-mayor axis! This also helps to visualize the mass and sizes of your planets, in the design phase of planets (a.k.a. maps) and more!

And just a final say: Making a program to have everything I've mentioned would not just be hard, but incredibly wasteful. One can't make something even remotely better than GIMP or Photoshop, Kopernicus's configuration structure has been simplified enough that is now more accesible than ever and the amount of features it would need to substitute sheets of paper would be astronomical.

[Linventor]

22 minutes ago, Pkmniako said:

There are really only 3 things needed to make planets for Kopernicus:

• A image editing software: For the creation on maps. You can always use procedural generators, but it's very important to have a image editing software for editing them for important planet features (For example, specular mapping or Polar Distortion). The best bet is always GIMP, as it's free to download and has pretty much all the same functionalities as Photoshop.
• A text writter: This is how you actually make planets with Kopernicus, by the use of Configuration Files (.cfg). Inside them is every piece of information Kopernicus needs to create a planet in-game. And every variable is in the international system (except geeASL which is in gees). Distances are in meters, orbits are in meters and degrees, atmosphere in pascals (?) etc...
• And sheets of paper and a calculator: No joke, this is the most important part you have to have while making planets. Do you want to have a planet orbiting this far from Kerbin? Just draw it, measure it with a ruler and you have your new semi-mayor axis! This also helps to visualize the mass and sizes of your planets, in the design phase of planets (a.k.a. maps) and more!

And just a final say: Making a program to have everything I've mentioned would not just be hard, but incredibly wasteful. One can't make something even remotely better than GIMP or Photoshop, Kopernicus's configuration structure has been simplified enough that is now more accesible than ever and the amount of features it would need to substitute sheets of paper would be astronomical.

Okay, fair enough. I'm not competent with programming anyways, which means I'm not entitled to a "But, actually".

[Galileo]

1 hour ago, Linventor said:

You know, there aren't really many ways to really make your own planets. I mean sure, you can have Space Engine make you a planet and export that to KSP, but there's no real easy way to get the atmosphere, orbital info, biomes, surface heights, ocean info, etc done in a single program that makes sense to someone who finds kittopia a bit daunting. Plez halp.

If you think Kittopia is daunting, what makes you think an even more comprehensive program will be easier for you? Adding more features does not mean it’s easier to use...

Your best bet is Kittopia + Photoshop or Gimp. Kopernicus and Kittopia are so easy to use, that’s why you see a bazzilion planet packs out there, saturating the forums. Learning to use both may take you a weekend or two at most. Just buckle down and be determined to learn it. I have literally seen 10 year olds learn to use kopernicus and Kittopia.

Learning atmosphere curves and things like that  can be tricky, but there are tutorials out there. There are also other programs people have released that practically write it for you.

The tools are out there for you to make planets, but you have to be willing to learn to use them. If you are looking for someone to hold your hand through the process, you are probably going to get ignored to be honest. If you want help while you are learning and trying yourself, feel free to join the discord linked in the OP. 

 

Oh, and your font choice hurts people eyes. I would refrain from using that typeface if you want to be taken a bit more seriously.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Galileo

[Linventor]

1 minute ago, Galileo said:

If you think Kittopia is daunting, what makes you think an even more comprehensive program will be easier for you? Adding more features does not mean it’s easier to use...

Your best bet is Kittopia + Photoshop or Gimp. Kopernicus and Kittopia are so easy to use, that’s why you see a bazzilion planet packs out there, saturating the forums. Learning to use both may take you a weekend or two at most. Just buckle down and be determined to learn it. 

Learning atmosphere curves and things like that  can be tricky, but there are tutorials out there. There are also other programs people have released that practically write it for you.

The tools are out there for you to make planets, but you have to be willing to learn to use them. If you are looking for someone to hold your hand through the process, you are probably going to get ignored to be honest. If you want help while you are learning and trying yourself, feel free to join the discord linked in the OP. 

 

Oh, and your font choice hurts people eyes. I would refrain from using that typeface if you want to be taken a bit more seriously.

Everything there makes sense, except for the statement about this causing (I couldn't get the image to insert, so here's the link. :P)

Look at it this way, at least I'm not using something like wingdings.

[Galileo]

20 minutes ago, Linventor said:

Everything there makes sense, except for the statement about this causing (I couldn't get the image to insert, so here's the link. :P)

Look at it this way, at least I'm not using something like wingdings.

No, using any sort of novelty typeface looks like this on mobile:

This is why it’s a good idea to just use the default font. I would actually prefer Wingdings to this.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Galileo

[Linventor]

3 hours ago, Galileo said:

No, using any sort of novelty typeface looks like this on mobile:

This is why it’s a good idea to just use the default font. I would actually prefer Wingdings to this.

You know, some people have actually done a good video on why people hate Comic Sans so much. Here's one of them.

[OhioBob]

@Linventor, for atmospheres you can use this:

And even if you don't want to use the tool, you can learn from it to see what all the atmosphere settings do.

[Linventor]

54 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

@Linventor, for atmospheres you can use this:

And even if you don't want to use the tool, you can learn from it to see what all the atmosphere settings do.

Thanks!

[The Minmus Derp]

Can solar panels deploy? @Thomas P.

[FreeThinker]

@Thomas P.  Would there be any way for external mods to retrieve the closest Kopernicus star and all related data including solar flux?

Edited June 5, 2018 by FreeThinker

[Hyperion101]

Is there any possible fix for the solar panels malfunctioning thanks to this mod?

[Beetlecat]

16 minutes ago, Hyperion101 said:

Is there any possible fix for the solar panels malfunctioning thanks to this mod?

There's a post a little back (I think) that gives a means of circumventing it for a current game, but the "Fix" is to start a new game, since Kopernicus alters the kerbol system including light source, etc.

There may be a way to surgically add the new-game-launch code into your current persistent save. Can anybody confirm if this works?

[Yaivenov]

I am kicking around some ideas for simulating a few things like Lagrangian points and orbital precession. This lead me to some questions that I haven't been able to search up the answers for:

 

Can I directly alter a body's orbital period/orbital speed and deviate it from the normal calculation?

Can a body be set to have negative gravity?

 

And as a general modding question, can I directly mess with orbital information for vessels?

Just found the station keeping mod. That answers that. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by Yaivenov

[OhioBob]

9 hours ago, Yaivenov said:

Can I directly alter a body's orbital period/orbital speed and deviate it from the normal calculation?

Orbital period/speed is a function of the gravitational parameter of the primary body and the distance from it.  Changing either of those parameters will change the orbital period, but otherwise it can't be changed.  It is a hardcoded calculation that you can't override.

The only other thing you can do is change the way that orbital period is calculated.  Normally KSP uses a simplified calculation that takes into account only the mass of the primary body.  But by using the setting finalizeOrbit = True, KSP will take into account the mass of both bodies in the calculation.  It most cases it's only a very small difference, but if two bodies are close to the same mass, like binary stars, it can make a pretty significant difference in the orbital period.

Quote

Can a body be set to have negative gravity?

Better question, why would you want to?  You could try giving a body a negative surface gravity, negative mass, or negative gravitational parameter (use only one), but I have no idea if that would work, or what the consequences would be.  It might simply blow the game up.  Just try it and see what happens.

[Yaivenov]

2 hours ago, OhioBob said:

Orbital period/speed is a function of the gravitational parameter of the primary body and the distance from it.  Changing either of those parameters will change the orbital period, but otherwise it can't be changed.  It is a hardcoded calculation that you can't override.

The only other thing you can do is change the way that orbital period is calculated.  Normally KSP uses a simplified calculation that takes into account only the mass of the primary body.  But by using the setting finalizeOrbit = True, KSP will take into account the mass of both bodies in the calculation.  It most cases it's only a very small difference, but if two bodies are close to the same mass, like binary stars, it can make a pretty significant difference in the orbital period.

Better question, why would you want to?  You could try giving a body a negative surface gravity, negative mass, or negative gravitational parameter (use only one), but I have no idea if that would work, or what the consequences would be.  It might simply blow the game up.  Just try it and see what happens.

Easy answer, I was going to fudge the instability nature of some of the lagrangian points via the gravity mechanic.

L1 and L3 would get a very scant negative gravity. Any craft you put there will eventually float away without constant (monthly) attention.

L2 would receive zero gravity so how long you would stay there is a matter of how well you park, but still will likely drift due to the resolution of RCS translation adjustments.

L4 and L5 would receive scant positive gravity. While it will still require careful parking to meet the absurdly low "halo orbit" velocity, these would be stable.

 

I've tested a zero mass, zero gravity body. SOI was less than 50km. Used a 2km radius Jool analog. 

Next question: can I have a body/soi without an attendant visible planetary body?

ETA: is there a limit on the planetary ID numbers? I see 1 through 90 is in use and there are examples into the hundreds range. I ask because I was thinking of using a hexanome system to deconflict planetary additions: "123456" 1=cluster, 2=system, 34=planet(oid)s, 56=moons/sub satellites. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by Yaivenov

[Yaivenov]

Okay, one more question: what happens if an SOI is placed outside of its parent's SOI? Is it permanently isolated or can it be entered from the parent superior's SOI?

[Tonas1997]

Hi, I've been struggling with some configs for my interstellar playthrough, and though about coming by to see if anyone could help me (or point me to the right forum).

I'm finishing configuring a modpack on 1.3.1 (Kopernicus 1.3.1-3) which is built around the RSS planet pack, down-sized to the stock scale with - you guessed it - SSRSS. Adicionally, the pack includes the Constellations mod to add some interstellar objectives and extend the lifetime of my playthrough.

DISCLAIMER: for some reason, I installed the 1.2.2 version of RSS, but got it working perfectly anyways. So yay!

The problems began when I added the Constellations mod. As per its forum thread, the creator took an hiatus and the mod won't be updated to 1.3.1 anytime soon. Like RSS, the mod also runs perfectly fine on a 1.3.1 build... apart from one thing. It was made at a time when Kopernicus used a single value to define star brightness, making far-away systems shine on Earth - and other planets - with the strenght of a thousand fusion bombs. Kinda like this. So, being the smart poodle I am, I decided to reverse-engineer some configs from a  1.3.1-3 compatible planet pack (KSS, by the way) and manually add the curves to the Constellations configs. And that fixed the problem to an extent. The solar system planets no longer receive any significant light from other star systems. But THOSE systems still suffer the "overshine" from the Sun itself (which makes sense, because it is still using a single-value brightness instead of a curve).

So, once again, I added the curves to the Sun.cfg located in GameData\RealSolarSystem\RSSKopernicus (which already lacks a large number of properties, for some reason). It went from this:

@Kopernicus:FOR[RealSolarSystem]
{
	// Sun
	Body
	{
		name = Sun
		cacheFile = RealSolarSystem/RSSKopernicus/Cache/Sun.bin
		Template
		{
			name = Sun
			removeProgressTree = false
		}
		Properties
		{
			useTheInName = True
			description = The Sun, a G2V main sequence yellow dwarf.
			
			radius = 696342000
			
			gravParameter = 1.32712E+20
			ScienceValues
			{

			}
		}
		ScaledVersion
		{
			solarLightColor = 1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0
		}
	}
}

To this:

@Kopernicus:FOR[RealSolarSystem]
{
	// Sun
	Body
	{
		name = Sun
		cacheFile = RealSolarSystem/RSSKopernicus/Cache/Sun.bin
		Template
		{
			name = Sun
			removeProgressTree = false
		}
		Properties
		{
			useTheInName = True
			description = The Sun, a G2V main sequence yellow dwarf.
			
			radius = 696342000
			
			gravParameter = 1.32712E+20
			ScienceValues
			{

			}
		}
		ScaledVersion
		{
			Light
			{
				sunlightColor = RGBA(255, 255, 255, 255)
				IntensityCurve
				{
					key = 0 1.5 0 0	
					key = 6799908000 1 0 0
					key = 13599810000 0.65 0 0
					key = 27199614000 0.5 0 0
					key = 108798480000 0.1 0 0
					key = 1.7407752E+12 0.05 0 0
					key = 2.25E+12 0 0 0
				}
				scaledSunlightColor = RGBA(255, 255, 255, 255)
				ScaledIntensityCurve
				{
					key = 0 1.5 -4.411826E-07 -4.411826E-07
					key = 1133318 1 -3.750053E-07 -3.750053E-07
					key = 2266635 0.65 -1.470609E-07 -1.470609E-07
					key = 4533269 0.5 -1.890783E-08 -1.890783E-08
					key = 1.813308E+07 0.1 -8.753626E-10 -8.753626E-10
					key = 2.901292E+08 0.05 -9.807578E-10 -9.807578E-10
					key = 3.75E+08 0 -2.945654E-09 -2.945654E-09
				}
				IVASunColor = RGBA(255, 255, 255, 255)
				IVAIntensityCurve
				{
					key = 0 1.5 -4.411826E-07 -4.411826E-07
					key = 1133318 1 -3.750053E-07 -3.750053E-07
					key = 2266635 0.65 -1.470609E-07 -1.470609E-07
					key = 4533269 0.5 -1.890783E-08 -1.890783E-08
					key = 1.813308E+07 0.1 -8.753626E-10 -8.753626E-10
					key = 2.901292E+08 0.05 -9.807578E-10 -9.807578E-10
					key = 3.75E+08 0 -2.945654E-09 -2.945654E-09
				}
				sunLensFlareColor = RGBA(255, 255, 255, 255)
				luminosity = 680.272
				sunAU = 123599840256
				
                brightnessCurve
                {
					key = 0 0.005 0 13
					key = 0.01 0.105 0.5 0.5
					key = 1 0.6 0.5 0.25
					key = 5 3 0 0
					key = 10 3 0 0
					key = 50 2 0 0
					key = 200 2 0 0
                }
			}
		}
	}
}

Now, extrasolar planets no longer receive any light from the Sun - as intended - but, unfortunely, the solar system's planets suffered the same fate. Even at midday, and with blue skies, the Earth seems to be in a state of perpetual twilight, with barely enough sunlight to cast shadows. Sorry for not having screenshots - will provide some if needed.

I assume this can be easily fixed by adjusting the curves on my edited Sun.cfg to achieve the stock brightness values, but I don't know which values I should change. Any ideias?

[OhioBob]

3 hours ago, Tonas1997 said:

I assume this can be easily fixed by adjusting the curves on my edited Sun.cfg to achieve the stock brightness values, but I don't know which values I should change. Any ideas?

Are you using Sigma Dimensions to scale RSS down to stock-scale?  I see that the curves you're using are already scaled down to 1/10th scale.  I don't think you want to do that.  Since you are editing RSS's configs, and since RSS is a real scale system, you want to use curves that have real scale distances.  Sigma Dimensions should then scale down the intensity curves along with everything else.  I believe you are effectively doubling up on the 0.1 multiplier.  Based on your curve, I think the light intensity at Earth is about 0.2 rather than 0.65 as apparently intended.  Try multiplying all the distances in your curves by 10 and see if that fixes it.

Also note that the distances in your IVAIntensityCurve are wrong.  IntensityCurve and IVAIntensityCurve use the same units (meters).  It is only ScaledIntensityCurve that should be different (meters/6000).

[ALittleDeafAudiophile]

First of all want to say hi. This is my first post here and I hope I don't bend or break any forum rules. I want also to apologise for my English. This is the language I still learn.

I have a small problem. KSP Steam version 1.4.3, Kopernicus 1.4.3-2. I tried to add The World Beyond mod to my game, however it does'n seem to work. I followed installation process step by step, added comunity textures and all, hovewer all I see in Tracking Station are stock KSP celestial bodies and that's all. What can I do to fix that? Please help.

Edited June 13, 2018 by ALittleDeafAudiophile
My bad English correction :)

[Tonas1997]

20 hours ago, OhioBob said:

Are you using Sigma Dimensions to scale RSS down to stock-scale?  I see that the curves you're using are already scaled down to 1/10th scale.  I don't think you want to do that.  Since you are editing RSS's configs, and since RSS is a real scale system, you want to use curves that have real scale distances.  Sigma Dimensions should then scale down the intensity curves along with everything else.  I believe you are effectively doubling up on the 0.1 multiplier.  Based on your curve, I think the light intensity at Earth is about 0.2 rather than 0.65 as apparently intended.  Try multiplying all the distances in your curves by 10 and see if that fixes it.

Also note that the distances in your IVAIntensityCurve are wrong.  IntensityCurve and IVAIntensityCurve use the same units (meters).  It is only ScaledIntensityCurve that should be different (meters/6000).

Thanks for the reply, I did as you said and the lightning seems much better now! I still have a couple of questions, so just out of curiosity:

1- What would happen if I set the derivative values of each key in the curves to 0? Would the lightning fade linearly with distance?

2- What's the differece between ScaledIntensityCurve and IntensityCurve? Is the first one related to the map view or something? 

[OhioBob]

6 hours ago, Tonas1997 said:

Thanks for the reply, I did as you said and the lightning seems much better now! I still have a couple of questions, so just out of curiosity:

1- What would happen if I set the derivative values of each key in the curves to 0? Would the lightning fade linearly with distance?

2- What's the differece between ScaledIntensityCurve and IntensityCurve? Is the first one related to the map view or something? 

If you enter slopes of 0 you'll get a curve with flat spots on it.  It will looks something like this:

You'd probably be better off using no slope.  In that case, unity will compute a slope using a default formula.  I believe it makes the slope at any given point equal to the slope between the two points straddling it.  And for the end points it uses the slope between the end point and the point next to it.

If you want the lighting to fade linearly, then you can simply do something like this, which is a straight line between the beginning and ending points:

				IntensityCurve
				{
					key = 0 1 0 -5E-13
					key = 2E+12 0 -5E-13 0
				}

Or, in this case, you should get the same thing using no slope,

				IntensityCurve
				{
					key = 0 1
					key = 2E+12 0
				}

By the way, I don't know what happens when we use a brightness greater than 1.  I've never done that.  Inside a certain distance from a star, I typically just set the value equal to 1.

Regarding the second part of your question, IntensityCurve is the lighting that we see when we are in flight mode and close to the planet.  For example, when we are in low orbit around it or landed on its surface.  ScaledIntensityCurve is the lighting that we see when we are seeing the "scaled space version" of the planet.  This occurs when we are far from the planet, in map mode, or in the tracking station.
 

Edited June 13, 2018 by OhioBob

[OhioBob]

@Tonas1997, here's a post I made last year describing a method that I like to use for making sunlight intensity curves.  Maybe it will give you some ideas.

 

Edited June 15, 2018 by OhioBob

[ALittleDeafAudiophile]

10 hours ago, ALittleDeafAudiophile said:

First of all want to say hi. This is my first post here and I hope I don't bend or break any forum rules. I want also to apologise for my English. This is the language I still learn.

I have a small problem. KSP Steam version 1.4.3, Kopernicus 1.4.3-2. I tried to add The World Beyond mod to my game, however it does'n seem to work. I followed installation process step by step, added comunity textures and all, hovewer all I see in Tracking Station are stock KSP celestial bodies and that's all. What can I do to fix that? Please help.

If anyone had the same problem, I manged to resolve it very easy. It was not the only mod not working. The only thing I did was to remove Mod Manager cache files. Everything works now perfectly.